I know something about the wind, having been in wind energy research for 25 years. I can tell you that I find it not just unlikely, but actually impossible to land an unguided parachute-supported object on something that small in a reliable way. The wind is simply way too variable for that.So, it's either for a fairing or it's for a version of Dragon that's guided in some way.
This looks a lot like the recovery raft they would deploy around the Apollo capsule, as in below:Not sure why everyone seems to have latched onto the idea that this is something that would be landed directly on.
I know something about the wind, having been in wind energy research for 25 years. I can tell you that I find it not just unlikely, but actually impossible to land an unguided parachute-supported object on something that small in a reliable way. The wind is simply way too variable for that.
Quote from: Lee Jay on 08/20/2018 05:37 pmI know something about the wind, having been in wind energy research for 25 years. I can tell you that I find it not just unlikely, but actually impossible to land an unguided parachute-supported object on something that small in a reliable way. The wind is simply way too variable for that.Impossible is quite a strong claim.
For example, a cylinder of a hundred drones twenty seconds out to measure incoming gusts would seem likely to reduce the dispersion due to unknown wind in the last ten seconds by an order of magnitude.
QuoteSpaceX gears up for Crew Dragon’s first recovery with a giant inflatable cushionBy Eric RalphPosted on August 19, 2018Paired with observations and comments from sources familiar with the company, all signs seem to indicate that SpaceX is planning to recover their first Crew Dragon spacecraft with a giant inflatable cushion, to be towed a hundred or so miles off the coast of California by one of the company’s Port of LA-stationed recovery vessels.https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-crew-dragon-sea-recovery-giant-inflatable-cushion/
SpaceX gears up for Crew Dragon’s first recovery with a giant inflatable cushionBy Eric RalphPosted on August 19, 2018Paired with observations and comments from sources familiar with the company, all signs seem to indicate that SpaceX is planning to recover their first Crew Dragon spacecraft with a giant inflatable cushion, to be towed a hundred or so miles off the coast of California by one of the company’s Port of LA-stationed recovery vessels.
The Starliner controls seem much better. Everything is right up front visible incase the pilot needs immediately or wants to manually fly the ship, Just like Mercury astronauts way back in 1960 wanted controls so not the ground or computers fly ship. No man in the can!!! This is much better than Space X, plus the pilot is much closer to a forward facing window to observe docking not have to watch some screen. Also if the Dragon had better seats and landed in the Southwestern desert under its four parachutes as Starliner will land on land then be no need for these wasteful and costly or dangerous ocean landings recoveries.
NASA, SpaceX Agree on Plans for Crew Launch Day OperationsQuote...“To make this decision, our teams conducted an extensive review of the SpaceX ground operations, launch vehicle design, escape systems and operational history,” said Kathy Lueders, manager of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program. “Safety for our personnel was the driver for this analysis, and the team’s assessment was that this plan presents the least risk.”...https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-spacex-agree-on-plans-for-crew-launch-day-operations
...“To make this decision, our teams conducted an extensive review of the SpaceX ground operations, launch vehicle design, escape systems and operational history,” said Kathy Lueders, manager of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program. “Safety for our personnel was the driver for this analysis, and the team’s assessment was that this plan presents the least risk.”...
George Nield, another ASAP member and former associate administrator for commercial space transportation at the Federal Aviation Administration, recommended NASA look at overall safety, not just of crews on the spacecraft. “Not only crew safety, but also ground crew safety, is an important factor,” he said. “Where are the risks, and how can they be mitigated, and what is the best overall sequence for safety of the whole?”
Quote from: theonlyspace on 08/21/2018 03:52 pmThe Starliner controls seem much better. Everything is right up front visible incase the pilot needs immediately or wants to manually fly the ship, Just like Mercury astronauts way back in 1960 wanted controls so not the ground or computers fly ship. No man in the can!!! This is much better than Space X, plus the pilot is much closer to a forward facing window to observe docking not have to watch some screen. Also if the Dragon had better seats and landed in the Southwestern desert under its four parachutes as Starliner will land on land then be no need for these wasteful and costly or dangerous ocean landings recoveries.Quote from: kevinof on 08/21/2018 03:59 pmYou forget a couple of things 1) Nasa approved the SpaceX Dragon controls. If they are ok with them then they must be "more than good enough". Second SpaceX didn't want to do water landings. Nasa did. So if it's good enough for Nasa then it must be ok?Agree with kevinofThis is trollingOcean landing was dictated by NASA, who is comfortable with it from experience and does not consider it dangerous.What basis do you have for claiming ocean recovery is costly?What says that "better seats" are an issue?Looking out a far off-axis window is the best way to control a spacecraft for docking? Says who?Almost nothing is still "just like Mercury astronauts way back in 1960".
You forget a couple of things 1) Nasa approved the SpaceX Dragon controls. If they are ok with them then they must be "more than good enough". Second SpaceX didn't want to do water landings. Nasa did. So if it's good enough for Nasa then it must be ok?
Quote from: theonlyspace on 08/21/2018 03:52 pmThe Starliner controls seem much better. Everything is right up front visible incase the pilot needs immediately or wants to manually fly the ship, Just like Mercury astronauts way back in 1960 wanted controls so not the ground or computers fly ship. No man in the can!!! This is much better than Space X, plus the pilot is much closer to a forward facing window to observe docking not have to watch some screen. Also if the Dragon had better seats and landed in the Southwestern desert under its four parachutes as Starliner will land on land then be no need for these wasteful and costly or dangerous ocean landings recoveries.Agree with kevinofThis is trollingOcean landing was dictated by NASA, who is comfortable with it from experience and does not consider it dangerous.What basis do you have for claiming ocean recovery is costly?What says that "better seats" are an issue?Looking out a far off-axis window is the best way to control a spacecraft for docking? Says who?Almost nothing is still "just like Mercury astronauts way back in 1960".
Quote from: speedevil on 08/20/2018 08:53 pmQuote from: Lee Jay on 08/20/2018 05:37 pmI know something about the wind, having been in wind energy research for 25 years. I can tell you that I find it not just unlikely, but actually impossible to land an unguided parachute-supported object on something that small in a reliable way. The wind is simply way too variable for that.Impossible is quite a strong claim.Not for a stochastic (random) process.QuoteFor example, a cylinder of a hundred drones twenty seconds out to measure incoming gusts would seem likely to reduce the dispersion due to unknown wind in the last ten seconds by an order of magnitude.You'd think, but it's not really true.The problem is, at the short term, it's really a very, very random process and thus inherently unpredictable.A counter-intuitive (but true) fact I like to tell people is that it's much easier to predict the 1-hour averaged wind 48 hours out than it is to predict the 1 second averaged wind 1 second out. That's because at the short scale, it's all just turbulence (random and unpredictable). But the hour-averages remove most of the turbulence and thus the result is driven by the large-scale motion and physics of the system, and is thus much more predictable.About the best you can do with turbulence is to predict the statistics well, and even that is hard. But predicting short-term time-series is essentially impossible, and that's what you'd need to do to predict where an unguided thing is going to land.
This is complete bs (excuse the language). You have no evidence this inflatable ring is going to be used for Dragon. Zero. My sources tell me its for fairing retrieval. So why is it in this thread?Every single one of your posts is anti-Spacex and pro boeing - It's verging on trolling or at best extreme bias and I getting very tired of it.
