Quote from: DanClemmensen on 06/14/2023 02:47 pmQuote from: woods170 on 06/14/2023 07:39 am1. A fifth Crew Dragon is being constructed as we speak. Not because it is needed to serve the CCP contract, but because SpaceX sees a booming private-spaceflight market coming.2. Crew Dragon is already in the process of being certified for at least 10 flights each. Initial certification for 5 flights had nothing to do with the spacecraft's complexity, but everything with it landing in salt water. But the combined experience from Dragon 1 and Dragon 2 (both Crew and Cargo variants) has shown that flying Dragon 2 for more than 5 flights per vehicle (both cargo and crew variants) is not a problem.Thanks. I believe you, but I have not seen this in the press. The most recent I've seen for the fifth capsule is: https://spacenews.com/spacex-to-launch-last-new-cargo-dragon-spacecraft/The most recent I have seen for the five-flight limit is quite old: https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/08/02/spacex-to-begin-flights-under-new-cargo-resupply-contract-next-year/You have comment on this before in the "Commercial Crew - Discussion" thread and got my reply.Quote from: DanClemmensen on 03/12/2023 10:22 pm<snip>SpaceX may also be able to build out one more Crew Dragon, which extends the total missions to 25. If 5 missions is a hard limit, they will need this anyway to fly that last mission. They seem to have at least the skeleton of an additional Crew Dragon already available.<snip>Quote from: Zed_Noir on 03/13/2023 02:56 amFYI, SpaceX is building a fifth Crew Dragon capsule. Also that SpaceX plans to increase the number of missions for each capsule to about 10. From one of the Crew Dragon pre-launch press briefing by SpaceX's Sarah Walker.
Quote from: woods170 on 06/14/2023 07:39 am1. A fifth Crew Dragon is being constructed as we speak. Not because it is needed to serve the CCP contract, but because SpaceX sees a booming private-spaceflight market coming.2. Crew Dragon is already in the process of being certified for at least 10 flights each. Initial certification for 5 flights had nothing to do with the spacecraft's complexity, but everything with it landing in salt water. But the combined experience from Dragon 1 and Dragon 2 (both Crew and Cargo variants) has shown that flying Dragon 2 for more than 5 flights per vehicle (both cargo and crew variants) is not a problem.Thanks. I believe you, but I have not seen this in the press. The most recent I've seen for the fifth capsule is: https://spacenews.com/spacex-to-launch-last-new-cargo-dragon-spacecraft/The most recent I have seen for the five-flight limit is quite old: https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/08/02/spacex-to-begin-flights-under-new-cargo-resupply-contract-next-year/
1. A fifth Crew Dragon is being constructed as we speak. Not because it is needed to serve the CCP contract, but because SpaceX sees a booming private-spaceflight market coming.2. Crew Dragon is already in the process of being certified for at least 10 flights each. Initial certification for 5 flights had nothing to do with the spacecraft's complexity, but everything with it landing in salt water. But the combined experience from Dragon 1 and Dragon 2 (both Crew and Cargo variants) has shown that flying Dragon 2 for more than 5 flights per vehicle (both cargo and crew variants) is not a problem.
<snip>SpaceX may also be able to build out one more Crew Dragon, which extends the total missions to 25. If 5 missions is a hard limit, they will need this anyway to fly that last mission. They seem to have at least the skeleton of an additional Crew Dragon already available.<snip>
FYI, SpaceX is building a fifth Crew Dragon capsule. Also that SpaceX plans to increase the number of missions for each capsule to about 10. From one of the Crew Dragon pre-launch press briefing by SpaceX's Sarah Walker.
Quote from: Zed_Noir on 06/14/2023 09:22 pmQuote from: DanClemmensen on 06/14/2023 02:47 pmQuote from: woods170 on 06/14/2023 07:39 am1. A fifth Crew Dragon is being constructed as we speak. Not because it is needed to serve the CCP contract, but because SpaceX sees a booming private-spaceflight market coming.2. Crew Dragon is already in the process of being certified for at least 10 flights each. Initial certification for 5 flights had nothing to do with the spacecraft's complexity, but everything with it landing in salt water. But the combined experience from Dragon 1 and Dragon 2 (both Crew and Cargo variants) has shown that flying Dragon 2 for more than 5 flights per vehicle (both cargo and crew variants) is not a problem.Thanks. I believe you, but I have not seen this in the press. The most recent I've seen for the fifth capsule is: https://spacenews.com/spacex-to-launch-last-new-cargo-dragon-spacecraft/The most recent I have seen for the five-flight limit is quite old: https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/08/02/spacex-to-begin-flights-under-new-cargo-resupply-contract-next-year/You have comment on this before in the "Commercial Crew - Discussion" thread and got my reply.Quote from: DanClemmensen on 03/12/2023 10:22 pm<snip>SpaceX may also be able to build out one more Crew Dragon, which extends the total missions to 25. If 5 missions is a hard limit, they will need this anyway to fly that last mission. They seem to have at least the skeleton of an additional Crew Dragon already available.<snip>Quote from: Zed_Noir on 03/13/2023 02:56 amFYI, SpaceX is building a fifth Crew Dragon capsule. Also that SpaceX plans to increase the number of missions for each capsule to about 10. From one of the Crew Dragon pre-launch press briefing by SpaceX's Sarah Walker.Yes, but I am looking for a published source with attributions. My own comment was basically a re-wording of a sentence in the Spacenews article, which says they are thinking about building a fifth capsule, not that they have actually started building it. If you can easily find that press release, I would appreciate it. I will also try to find it myself now.
Former astronaut @Astro_Doug delves into what it was like to take his skills and services to another aerospace giant and help develop @SpaceX's own space program.Watch the clip at
SpaceX is collaborating with NASA on an integrated low Earth orbit architecture to provide a growing portfolio of technology with near-term Dragon evolution and concurrent Starship development. This architecture includes Starship as a transportation and in-space low-Earth orbit destination element supported by Super Heavy, Dragon, and Starlink, and constituent capabilities including crew and cargo transportation, communications, and operational and ground support.
I am still blown away by the fact that the Dragon 2 fleet now cumulatively has more time in space than the Space Shuttle.
Quote from: Oersted on 06/21/2023 07:24 pmI am still blown away by the fact that the Dragon 2 fleet now cumulatively has more time in space than the Space Shuttle.Keep in mind that for crew flights, the dragons park at ISS and stay for 6 months.Shuttles did not operate like that. They were up for a week or 2 and then back down.
Quote from: freddo411 on 06/21/2023 07:33 pmQuote from: Oersted on 06/21/2023 07:24 pmI am still blown away by the fact that the Dragon 2 fleet now cumulatively has more time in space than the Space Shuttle.Keep in mind that for crew flights, the dragons park at ISS and stay for 6 months.Shuttles did not operate like that. They were up for a week or 2 and then back down.Sure, but also keep in mind that Dragon has done this in three years and it took Shuttle 30 years.They are different craft with different strengths and weaknesses. Shuttle couldn't serve as a regular crew rotation vehicle, and Dragon isn't going to be building any space stations any time soon...
Quote from: Oersted on 06/21/2023 07:24 pmI am still blown away by the fact that the Dragon 2 fleet now cumulatively has more time in space than the Space Shuttle.Not a relevant comparison Docked to a station in a quiescent state accumulating time and using station resources is meaningless. Compare the amount of time both spacecraft were free flyers.
Quote from: Jim on 06/21/2023 08:53 pmQuote from: Oersted on 06/21/2023 07:24 pmI am still blown away by the fact that the Dragon 2 fleet now cumulatively has more time in space than the Space Shuttle.Not a relevant comparison Docked to a station in a quiescent state accumulating time and using station resources is meaningless. Compare the amount of time both spacecraft were free flyers. And/or the number of crewed missions.
Quote from: clongton on 06/22/2023 03:48 pmQuote from: Jim on 06/21/2023 08:53 pmQuote from: Oersted on 06/21/2023 07:24 pmI am still blown away by the fact that the Dragon 2 fleet now cumulatively has more time in space than the Space Shuttle.Not a relevant comparison Docked to a station in a quiescent state accumulating time and using station resources is meaningless. Compare the amount of time both spacecraft were free flyers. And/or the number of crewed missions.Yep. different architectures, different capabilities, so comparisons are not trivial "better" or "worse". The shuttle flew 130 times in a 30-year lifetime, a flight rate of 4.33/yr. The fleet of five Crew Dragons is intended to be able to fly 15 times each, for a total 75 flights, but is likely to retire after a 12-year lifetime with a flight rate of less than 4/yr.
Quote from: Jim on 06/21/2023 08:53 pmQuote from: Oersted on 06/21/2023 07:24 pmI am still blown away by the fact that the Dragon 2 fleet now cumulatively has more time in space than the Space Shuttle.Not a relevant comparison Docked to a station in a quiescent state accumulating time and using station resources is meaningless. Compare the amount of time both spacecraft were free flyers. And/or the number of crewed missions.Dragon is a really good spacecraft, but Shuttle's legacy (and Soyuz's) will stand for a long time. Dragon could eventually top them, but I don't think that will happen before Dragon/Falcon-9 is retired and replaced by Starship. Then it'll be Starship's task to top them.Here are the relevant stats:Shenzhou - 7 crewed missionsDragon - 10 crewed missionsShuttle - 135 crewed missionsSoyuz - 147 crewed missions, and it's still flying themSoyuz is the goal post to beat - and it's constantly moving
Dragon 2 fleet lifetime chart as of Jul 1, 2023#SpaceX #Space
Dragon 2 fleet overview as of Jul 1, 2023#SpaceX #Space
Maybe not officially an upgrade but I find what Vast is proposing as a really interesting expansion of Dragon. While we all want long term megastations, if dragon could serve as the backbone of cheaper temporary station architectures it would really change the way we are thinking about these
Quote from: Mariusuiram on 07/24/2023 12:22 amMaybe not officially an upgrade but I find what Vast is proposing as a really interesting expansion of Dragon. While we all want long term megastations, if dragon could serve as the backbone of cheaper temporary station architectures it would really change the way we are thinking about theseI must have missed it somehow.What/Who is Vast and what is being proposed?
During his time at NASA, Bill Gerstenmaier identified valve quality as an industry-wide concern. He's now at SpaceX, which isn't immune to valve problems, but is able to quickly overcome them.
