Author Topic: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3  (Read 815067 times)

Offline kevinof

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1580 on: 09/20/2021 06:14 pm »
...
Cool. Maybe will incent others (CST-***) to also go after that market.
The opposite, I think.  Based on what we know, CST is more expensive by enough that the best way for them to sign commercial flights would be limited availability of Dragon.  The more Dragon opportunities there are, the harder it would be to swallow the price difference.

Boeing could subsidize the difference to try and win some contracts on a more competitive price basis, but that doesn't really seem like their MO.

They'd have to wait for Vulcan to become man-rated too, since all of the remaining Atlas-Vs are already spoken for.
How long will that take? Years I guess?

Also shouldn't we be saying "crew rated"?

Offline joek

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1581 on: 09/20/2021 06:17 pm »
The opposite, I think.  Based on what we know, CST is more expensive by enough that the best way for them to sign commercial flights would be limited availability of Dragon.  The more Dragon opportunities there are, the harder it would be to swallow the price difference.

Boeing could subsidize the difference to try and win some contracts on a more competitive price basis, but that doesn't really seem like their MO.

Generally agree and pessimistic, but can hope it drives market demand and competitive pressure sufficient for other providers to address the market (whoever that may be). That said, believe alternative providers are needed for this market to grow.

Offline freddo411

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1582 on: 09/20/2021 09:20 pm »
I'm interested in opinions about Dragon2 commercial tourism flights.    Please take a moment for this poll ...

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=54821.0

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1583 on: 09/21/2021 05:47 am »
twitter.com/teslagong/status/1440159711760818182

Quote
Awesome Elon
Heated pizza 🍕 next mission?

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1440160941505585159

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Yeah, a little oven for heating food & Starlink wifi

twitter.com/teslaownersebay/status/1440161033243357192

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Heated toilet 🚽 seat?

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1440169571466371073

Quote
Definitely upgraded toilets :) We had some challenges with it this flight.

Offline woods170

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1584 on: 09/21/2021 10:46 am »
...
Cool. Maybe will incent others (CST-***) to also go after that market.

Would love to see Boeing going after the growing orbital tourism market. Boeing will need to upgrade Starliner with a toilet though. Current version doesn't have one.

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1585 on: 09/21/2021 01:58 pm »
How long will that take? Years I guess?


Very easy and short.  The avionics are already.   The engine were built manrated. The rest is just documentation.

Offline hplan

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1586 on: 09/21/2021 02:10 pm »
How long will that take? Years I guess?


Very easy and short.  The avionics are already.   The engine were built manrated. The rest is just documentation.

BE-4s were built crew-rated? No flight-testing or track record necessary?

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1587 on: 09/21/2021 02:11 pm »
....
Boeing will need to upgrade Starliner with a toilet though. Current version doesn't have one.
Finding some place inside the Starliner to installed one will be interesting.

Offline kevinof

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1588 on: 09/21/2021 02:13 pm »
How long will that take? Years I guess?


Very easy and short.  The avionics are already.   The engine were built manrated. The rest is just documentation.
Wouldn’t they have to re-model the escape system now that it’s a different booster? Not a huge task either way.

Online abaddon

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1589 on: 09/21/2021 02:49 pm »
There's a thread to discuss commercial applications of CST-100 and this ain't it; please move further discussions here: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39725.

Offline cohberg

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1590 on: 09/22/2021 02:43 pm »
It looks like the external camera for the cupola is simply a repositioned Peripheral Target Camera with a wider lens (~220°)

Confirmation via Jared on Instagram about the camera location / redesign


Offline Asteroza

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Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1592 on: 09/23/2021 04:45 am »

Quote
[...]Space Adventures' free-flyer mission will provide up to four crew members with the opportunity to break the world altitude record for a private citizen spaceflight. The current orbital record of 853 miles (1,373 kilometers) was set in September 1966 by Charles "Pete" Conrad and Richard "Dick" Gordon on NASA's Gemini 11 mission. (Apollo astronauts, including Conrad and Gordon, later flew farther from Earth on missions to the moon, but the Gemini 11 record stands for the highest Earth orbit reached by a crewed spacecraft.)
/

Quote
[...]Space Adventures, Inc. has entered into an agreement with SpaceX to fly private citizens on the first Crew Dragon free-flyer mission. This will provide up to four individuals with the opportunity to break the world altitude record for private citizen spaceflight and see planet Earth the way no one has since the Gemini program.

The Space Adventures announcement was dated Feb 18, 2020, before Demo-2. “Forward leaning”
It said “late 2021 or 2022”.
It now can’t be the “first”.
It described training as “a few weeks” which is a lot less than Inspiration 4.
It describes a high orbit, but much higher than I4.
They may not have thought of an individual buying the whole flight like Issacman. Doesn’t leave room for a “retailer”.

But it might still happen.
A pizza oven, WiFi, and an improved toilet, won’t hurt sales. :)

« Last Edit: 09/23/2021 04:48 am by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline cohberg

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1593 on: 09/23/2021 06:15 pm »
From the Inspiration 4 Cupola video we finally see the bottom button on the seat controls

We have:
Push to talk
Volume Up
Volume Down
Vox threshold up (don't think we have seen crews use this mode / maybe its for an internal dragon only loop)
Vox threshold down
Task light

Offline su27k

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1594 on: 10/07/2021 01:04 pm »
https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1445791031341903879

Quote from: Eric Berger
It's worth revisiting this statement from just a little more than two years ago. Jim was upset, perhaps justifiably, that SpaceX and Elon Musk seemed more interested in Starship than pushing Crew Dragon over the finish line. So he impulsively tweeted, "It's time to deliver."

And it worked. The public spurring helped prod SpaceX to focus. Elon made it a priority, personally getting involved in the parachute redesign and test program. Eight months later SpaceX flew its first crewed mission and NASA now relies on the company for ISS transport. So bravo.

BUT. And this is an important but. You would never see a NASA administrator attack a traditional contractor (read: Boeing) in this way. Too much political clout. Politicians would crush the administrator. So Jim's tweet was also hypocritical. When does Boeing have to deliver?

This is the first time I've seen hints that perhaps Jim Bridenstine had some justification in tweeting "It's time to deliver", and that there was some kind of impasse back then that Elon helped to push SpaceX to overcome.

Online rsdavis9

Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1595 on: 10/07/2021 06:49 pm »
https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1445791031341903879

Quote from: Eric Berger
It's worth revisiting this statement from just a little more than two years ago. Jim was upset, perhaps justifiably, that SpaceX and Elon Musk seemed more interested in Starship than pushing Crew Dragon over the finish line. So he impulsively tweeted, "It's time to deliver."

And it worked. The public spurring helped prod SpaceX to focus. Elon made it a priority, personally getting involved in the parachute redesign and test program. Eight months later SpaceX flew its first crewed mission and NASA now relies on the company for ISS transport. So bravo.

BUT. And this is an important but. You would never see a NASA administrator attack a traditional contractor (read: Boeing) in this way. Too much political clout. Politicians would crush the administrator. So Jim's tweet was also hypocritical. When does Boeing have to deliver?

This is the first time I've seen hints that perhaps Jim Bridenstine had some justification in tweeting "It's time to deliver", and that there was some kind of impasse back then that Elon helped to push SpaceX to overcome.

Instead of impasse. I would call it getting musk to prod spacex employees to jump. And we all know spacex jumps when musk pushes.
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

Offline cohberg

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1596 on: 10/13/2021 05:23 pm »
The Portable Ventilation Units in the recent crew 3 photo were very vintage looking so I did a bit of research.

Those units / design appear to date back to Apollo and have heritage in shuttle flights as well.

It appears that SpaceX and NASA are taking reuse very seriously. ;)

« Last Edit: 10/31/2021 05:40 pm by cohberg »

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1597 on: 10/26/2021 04:11 am »
Some info on Inspiration 4 toilet issues.
Luckily it wasn't "when the shit hits the fan".
That would've made for very unpleasant trip.

https://twitter.com/joroulette/status/1452784355672305665?t=kmS4A7HDkhpYAah4bVZWKg&s=19

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk


Offline cohberg

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1598 on: 10/26/2021 06:17 pm »
Quote from: Joey Roulette - (New York Times - Reporter)
SpaceX’s Bill Gerst says Crew Dragon’s toilet mechanics were redesigned after the toilet issues on the Inspiration4 mission.

I feel that the phrase "toilet mechanics were redesigned" is a mischaracterization. The actual quote was:

Quote from: William Gerstenmaier - (SpaceX - Vice President of Mission Assurance)
we fix this problem in the tank by essentially making it all a welded structure with no longer a joint in there that can come unglued and come disconnected

So, the only minor modification / process change is to plastic weld, not glue, the joints near the waste fan assembly / storage tank (white tee and purple banded fitting in the lower left of the ECLSS floor photo).

The additional cycling / use from I4 likely caused the glue joint to fatigue and the hose to blow off under sustained fan pressure. SpaceX likely used glue originally for ease of assembly, inspection and refurbishment.

This will just make the toilet more resilient and prep the system for long term use if deployed in Dragon XL for Artemis.

We also now know that they use Oxone to pretreat the urine. Excuse me while I go buy LXS-DE stock. /s



« Last Edit: 10/28/2021 04:50 pm by cohberg »

Offline thrwnt

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1599 on: 10/26/2021 07:37 pm »
More updates for Endurance:

Quote
Consistent with the culture of “learn from flying,” several other changes have been made to Crew Dragon Endurance for this mission; in the highly unlikely event of all three of Dragon’s flight computers failing during reentry, Dragon now has a fourth fully redundant computer that can control the vehicle. This ensures that landing success and accuracy remain the same under extreme failure scenarios, further increasing Crew Dragon’s safety.

SpaceX has also made minor changes to the stitching on Dragon’s drogue parachutes. During post-flight inspections of Crew Dragon Resilience after Crew-1, teams noticed localized ribbon damage due to a debris strike on one of the drogue parachutes. The new stitching should further reinforce the parachute lines.

Additionally, Crew Dragon Endurance will refly Dragon’s nose cone for the first time, debut additional cleaning processes to reduce potential FOD (Foreign Object Debris), return to an earlier propulsion system seal which performed better than a newer design, debut a software change to mitigate radiation interference on communications, and showcase enhanced docking procedures to reduce interference while docking to the ISS.

via https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/10/crew-3-frr/

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