Author Topic: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3  (Read 815104 times)

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1180 on: 03/24/2020 06:44 pm »
https://twitter.com/spacecom/status/1242536846174773248

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Oops. Report that a #SpaceX #CrewDragon test article was destroyed today during a parachute test. Report is the helicopter pilot dropped it prematurely at lower than planned altitude due to oscillations. Chutes did not open because they were not armed at time of the drop.

Edit to add:

twitter.com/rocketrepreneur/status/1242537743088902144

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So, not necessarily something that shows the hardware was fundamentally flawed, but more of a test execution error?

https://twitter.com/spacecom/status/1242538968853299200

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Probably a good assumption. Awaiting details from on exact cause of oscillations during flight. Pilots reportedly had to drop it to avoid a bad outcome.
« Last Edit: 03/24/2020 06:55 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Jcc

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1181 on: 03/24/2020 09:21 pm »
Has there ever been any confirmation that Dragon 2 can carry external cargo? I don’t doubt that it can in the cargo version, but given that the trunk is part of the launch escape mass, I really wonder if they can tolerate any external cargo mass for a crewed Dragon mission.
Consider that any mass in the trunk is going to reduce the possible abort acceleration.  I doubt they will use the trunk while carrying people.  When using D-2 as a cargo carrier is another question entirely.

As long as the total mass is within limits, I don’t see why they can’t carry external cargo. Dragon2 is rated for 7 crew/ no cargo, or 4 crew with some cargo.

Offline racevedo88

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1182 on: 03/24/2020 09:44 pm »
Ok, so this is not a parachute or design issue. It is a helicopter safety of flight decision. There could be many factors, winds aloft, incorrect slingload rigging, and many others, none of them is related to dragon per Se.
« Last Edit: 03/24/2020 09:45 pm by racevedo88 »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1183 on: 03/25/2020 12:10 am »
https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1242618464306675712

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SpaceX had an unfortunate incident today during parachute testing for its Crew Dragon capsule, in which the simulated spacecraft (“test article”) became unstable and was dropped early – full statement:

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"During a planned parachute drop test today, the test article suspended underneath
the helicopter became unstable. Out of an abundance of caution and to keep the
helicopter crew safe, the pilot pulled the emergency release. As the helicopter was
not yet at target conditions, the test article was not armed, and as such, the parachute
system did not initiate the parachute deployment sequence. While the test article was
lost, this was not a failure of the parachute system and most importantly no one was
injured. NASA and SpaceX are working together to determine the testing plan going
forward in advance of Crew Dragon's second demonstration mission.“

Offline AndrewRG10

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1184 on: 03/25/2020 12:16 am »
They only had 2 or 3 tests to do right, so they should be able to solve the issue, new article and get the final tests done by May, right?

Offline Andy Bandy

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1185 on: 03/25/2020 05:38 pm »
According to this story:

test was most likely the first of two remaining drop tests looking at corner cases
there's not another test article available to drop at the moment
Demo 2 is currently trending toward June due to drop test failure and unrelated work required before launch
NASA also joined investigation into Falcon 9 engine failure during last flight which adds uncertainty into the schedule.

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2020/03/25/spacex-crew-dragon-parachute-test-goes-awry-crewed-flight-to-space-station-could-slip-to-june/

Offline woods170

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1186 on: 03/25/2020 06:56 pm »
https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1242618464306675712

Quote
SpaceX had an unfortunate incident today during parachute testing for its Crew Dragon capsule, in which the simulated spacecraft (“test article”) became unstable and was dropped early – full statement:

Quote
"During a planned parachute drop test today, the test article suspended underneath
the helicopter became unstable. Out of an abundance of caution and to keep the
helicopter crew safe, the pilot pulled the emergency release. As the helicopter was
not yet at target conditions, the test article was not armed, and as such, the parachute
system did not initiate the parachute deployment sequence. While the test article was
lost, this was not a failure of the parachute system and most importantly no one was
injured. NASA and SpaceX are working together to determine the testing plan going
forward in advance of Crew Dragon's second demonstration mission.“

In 2008 the Orion Parachute Test Vehicle (PTV) was destroyed when the test setup failed after release from the C-17 carrier aircraft. In that case the Orion parachute system itself was not to blame. The entire test failed because an additional parachute, part of the test setup, failed to deploy.


Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1187 on: 03/25/2020 10:11 pm »
twitter.com/kyle_m_photo/status/1242950623584309248

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Two of the Dragon test articles at the closer dock near Fishlips, work of some kind was being done.  #SpaceX #SpaceXFleet

https://twitter.com/kyle_m_photo/status/1242950898235650049

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A few more shots

Offline Mammutti

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1188 on: 03/26/2020 07:44 pm »
Quote from: NASA
NASA Update on SpaceX Parachute Testing

To date, SpaceX has completed 24 tests of its upgraded Mark 3 parachute design they are working to certify for use on the Crew Dragon spacecraft that will fly NASA astronauts to the International Space Station. The system was used during the SpaceX in-flight abort test in January.

On March 24, SpaceX lost a spacecraft-like device used to test the Crew Dragon Mark 3 parachute design. The test requires a helicopter to lift the device suspended underneath it to reach the needed test parameters. However, the pilot proactively dropped the device in an abundance of caution to protect the test crew as the test device became unstable underneath the helicopter. At the time of the release, the testing device was not armed, and a test of the parachute design was not performed.

Although losing a test device is never a desired outcome, NASA and SpaceX always will prioritize the safety of our teams over hardware. We are looking at the parachute testing plan now and all the data we already have to determine the next steps ahead of flying the upcoming Demo-2 flight test in the mid-to-late May timeframe.

https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/2020/03/26/nasa-update-on-spacex-parachute-testing/

Online mn

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1189 on: 03/27/2020 01:14 am »
Quote from: NASA
NASA Update on SpaceX Parachute Testing

To date, SpaceX has completed 24 tests of its upgraded Mark 3 parachute design they are working to certify for use on the Crew Dragon spacecraft that will fly NASA astronauts to the International Space Station. The system was used during the SpaceX in-flight abort test in January.

On March 24, SpaceX lost a spacecraft-like device used to test the Crew Dragon Mark 3 parachute design. The test requires a helicopter to lift the device suspended underneath it to reach the needed test parameters. However, the pilot proactively dropped the device in an abundance of caution to protect the test crew as the test device became unstable underneath the helicopter. At the time of the release, the testing device was not armed, and a test of the parachute design was not performed.

Although losing a test device is never a desired outcome, NASA and SpaceX always will prioritize the safety of our teams over hardware. We are looking at the parachute testing plan now and all the data we already have to determine the next steps ahead of flying the upcoming Demo-2 flight test in the mid-to-late May timeframe.

https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/2020/03/26/nasa-update-on-spacex-parachute-testing/

Is this the first 'official' dm-2 date publicly from nasa?

Offline gongora

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1190 on: 03/27/2020 01:23 am »
Is this the first 'official' dm-2 date publicly from nasa?

It's the same timeframe they've been saying recently.

Offline Vettedrmr

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1191 on: 03/27/2020 08:58 am »
It *is* good to hear, though, that the Merlin failure and the chute test failure don't seem to have had significant impacts on those working dates. 
Aviation/space enthusiast, retired control system SW engineer, doesn't know anything!

Offline Andy Bandy

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1192 on: 03/27/2020 03:58 pm »
It *is* good to hear, though, that the Merlin failure and the chute test failure don't seem to have had significant impacts on those working dates.

Commercial crew launch estimates are firm until they're not. Then NASA changes them. 

Offline Tomness

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1193 on: 03/27/2020 04:54 pm »
It *is* good to hear, though, that the Merlin failure and the chute test failure don't seem to have had significant impacts on those working dates.

It shouldn't impact, they weren't able do the chute test because the pilots bailed it. The engines have seen at least 12 firings (engine test, stage test, static firings, 5 launches) entering engines have seen an extra 12 firing for a total 24 firing with an almost 27 if it landed.

Online Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1194 on: 03/27/2020 05:04 pm »
The engine failure seems more worthy of an investigation and thus more likely to cause a delay than the test failure as the test failure was a failure of the test apparatus, not a failure of the thing being tested.

It was testing a corner case, too. Still needs to be done IMHO, but shouldn’t necessarily cause a delay.

The engine failure also shouldn’t be a cause of *major* concern, but one advantage of these high numbers of reuses is that it allows you to push the engines a lot more and improve their robustness in targeted ways that aren’t feasible for single-use engines in these numbers without spending an ungodly amount on testing (much more than literally anyone does or has even done for a single use engine). To NOT do even an expedited investigation would be to waste that opportunity.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1195 on: 03/27/2020 05:10 pm »
It *is* good to hear, though, that the Merlin failure and the chute test failure don't seem to have had significant impacts on those working dates.

It shouldn't impact, they weren't able do the chute test because the pilots bailed it. The engines have seen at least 12 firings (engine test, stage test, static firings, 5 launches) entering engines have seen an extra 12 firing for a total 24 firing with an almost 27 if it landed.

I see it differently.  They have a schedule and a plan so they can continue with that while the Merlin failure analysis continues.  They can change the DM-2 schedule as they get closer and the Merlin problem is not resolved.  Don't change a schedule until you need to. 

Hopefully the Merlin problem is an older design and it's a reuse issue and that can be put to bed soon. 

The Chutes, that seems easier.  They have a lot of successful tests already.  If they can get there without more tests that is prudent and not unusual to re-evaluate criteria. 

Starship, Vulcan and Ariane 6 have all reached orbit.  New Glenn, well we are waiting!

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1196 on: 03/28/2020 09:36 am »
I just want to reiterate that the parachute test was NOT a failure. I keep hearing that word connected to the test.

If you test a piece of software and the hard drive crashes before you run the software, do you say the software test failed? No, you load it onto another computer and move on...
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline Vettedrmr

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1197 on: 03/28/2020 09:48 am »
Problem is there's not another computer laying around.....  I *hope* that these two corner tests aren't required for DM-2.  Not saying they don't need to be done in a timely manner, just that it's not on the critical path.  Latest NASA blog tends that way.
Aviation/space enthusiast, retired control system SW engineer, doesn't know anything!

Offline ValmirGP

Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1198 on: 03/28/2020 10:36 am »
Not exactly.  There was at least a mockup used to present D2 to journalists and another used in rescue operations training.  I guess one of those could be adapted to carry on the task of chute testing. 

Offline Vettedrmr

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1199 on: 03/28/2020 10:45 am »
For sure. They have lots of test articles around, but I expect they don't have more than one that's designed for the chute tests (a test article for RF interference is going to be quite a bit different from a mass simulator only article).  IDK how long it would take to build another one; I'd guess it depends on the required fidelity.

Have a good one,
Mike
Aviation/space enthusiast, retired control system SW engineer, doesn't know anything!

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