Author Topic: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3  (Read 815087 times)

Online butters

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1120 on: 02/15/2020 12:59 am »
Tungsten is a common material in electric resistive heating elements. I'm sure a spacecraft like Crew Dragon has several electric heaters. Whether that fits the "tubing" remark is another story.

Offline Draggendrop

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1121 on: 02/15/2020 01:22 am »
snip/ Dunno why it took Edison so long to choose it for the light bulb.

Edison did not invent the lightbulb. There were many individuals wordwide that did development and applied patents. Edison bought the 1875 Canadian patent from Woodward and Evans and continued to improve the design. During early development, tungston did not hold up well when compared to other materials...bamboo derivatives included. Patent infringements are still debated today.
--------
My guess would also be a heating application.

Online Coastal Ron

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1122 on: 02/15/2020 02:10 am »
Is it possible that he said "tungsten" but actually meant "titanium"? That would point back to the DM-1 use for the IFA static fire anomaly and make his sentence make more sense. That was indeed a titanium issue. Just thinking out loud.

Yes, that would make more sense. I can't imagine using tungsten for tubing.

And if they are just waiting on paperwork to be finished for the DM-2 flight, then that implies that these changes will be incorporated on later flights. Changing tubing at this point could require a lot of work, and a lot of re-inspection.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline gongora

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1123 on: 02/15/2020 02:33 am »
And if they are just waiting on paperwork to be finished for the DM-2 flight, then that implies that these changes will be incorporated on later flights.

I very much disagree with your assessment.  If there is a known issue they're worried about they would want it fixed for the first crewed flight.

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1124 on: 02/15/2020 03:10 am »

Quote
"We have some subsystems that are in the vehicle that we think might need to be re-engineered with different kinds of metal, we have a tungsten incompatibility in one of the areas that we want to replace with different kinds of tubing," he said. "It's not major, but it's something that has to be done along the way."

NASA and SpaceX are also in final discussions about additional parachute tests to certify that system for flight. It's likely that SpaceX will conduct two additional tests of brand-new parachutes in the coming weeks to satisfy NASA's needs.

Is it possible that he said "tungsten" but actually meant "titanium"? That would point back to the DM-1 use for the IFA static fire anomaly and make his sentence make more sense. That was indeed a titanium issue. Just thinking out loud.

I agree with clongton.
He probably meant titanium.
It is possible that NASA thinks more titanium piping should be replaced than SpaceX does, but that’s a wild guess.
« Last Edit: 02/15/2020 03:12 am by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1125 on: 02/15/2020 03:19 am »
 I remember talk of a Tungsten weight on a screw for cg adjustment, but that might have been an Soyuz or something.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline ATPTourFan

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1126 on: 02/15/2020 03:03 pm »
I keep thinking “tungsten” was actually supposed to be Titanium.

Online Coastal Ron

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1127 on: 02/15/2020 03:31 pm »
And if they are just waiting on paperwork to be finished for the DM-2 flight, then that implies that these changes will be incorporated on later flights.

I very much disagree with your assessment.  If there is a known issue they're worried about they would want it fixed for the first crewed flight.

It would have to be something that can be easily swapped, and doesn't require retesting. I'm just thinking back to my days with building military electronics, and when something failed in test the product had to retested after being fixed - which makes sense of course.

That is essentially the situation here, where NASA is saying a component (or assembly) has failed, and that it needs to be replaced. But depending on the where the component is at, and the systems it is part of, that could require validation testing.

It also depends on where the component is at. Is it in the engine compartment, inside the pressurized section of the capsule, in the trunk, in the outer section of the capsule?

Plenty to speculate about, and not enough information...
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline John Santos

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1128 on: 02/15/2020 03:39 pm »
Tungsten tubing is a thing, especially as a laminate or alloy. It has the highest melting point of any metal at 3410°C. Dunno why it took Edison so long to choose it for the light bulb.

It's extremely brittle.  Discovering a way to make very fine ductile tungsten wire was the key to making an economically practical, long-lasting incandescent light bulb.



Offline NX-0

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1129 on: 02/16/2020 04:19 pm »
Where are things at in regards to capsule construction?
Hardware for DM-2 is in Florida.
How far along is the hardware for the first couple of operational flights and the first couple of Cargo flights?
SpaceX Crew Dragon-1 has an NET July 2020 - could it actually be ready be then?
How soon before we are looking at SpaceX Crew Dragon-2 and SpaceX Crew Dragon-3.
Once Starliner is actually ready for crew, they will alternate, but there may be a time when SpaceX is the only certified provider. If that is a year or more, what kind of cadence can they support?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1130 on: 02/16/2020 11:04 pm »
https://twitter.com/spacex/status/1229194045349679113

Quote
Crew Dragon completes acoustic testing in Florida

Offline CameronD

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1131 on: 02/16/2020 11:32 pm »
Quote
NASA confirms SpaceX will become the first company in history to launch astronauts into orbit

NASA has unambiguously confirmed that SpaceX – with its Crew Dragon spacecraft – will soon become the first private company in history to launch astronauts into orbit, both an unexpected twist from the usually tight-lipped space agency and a major upset for Boeing.

https://www.teslarati.com/nasa-spacex-first-company-orbital-astronaut-launch/
« Last Edit: 02/16/2020 11:32 pm by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline su27k

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1132 on: 02/17/2020 01:52 am »
Can the "hand-labor intensive" parachutes be reused? Also, does the need for additional testing after 10 already surprise anyone else? Looks to me like the SpaceX crew division and/or NASA just wants something for them to do while waiting on other paperwork to clear.

I think I heard that the 10 tests already done had re-used the same parachutes. I believe that the crew missions with always have new chutes. NASA wants to make sure that brand new chutes from the factory work successfully. Also I think the final 2 test are more like system integration tests. The testing rig might be more like a real capsule.

Do we know they reused the same parachutes 10 times? I haven't seen reporting of this.

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1133 on: 02/17/2020 02:44 am »
Quote
NASA confirms SpaceX will become the first company in history to launch astronauts into orbit

NASA has unambiguously confirmed that SpaceX – with its Crew Dragon spacecraft – will soon become the first private company in history to launch astronauts into orbit, both an unexpected twist from the usually tight-lipped space agency and a major upset for Boeing

https://www.teslarati.com/nasa-spacex-first-company-orbital-astronaut-launch/

This is why we should keep things separate, like technical details about Dragon 2 here, and mission specific things like DM-2 in its thread.

NASA PR has already walked this back, with a couple of strategic edits.
We discussed that over in the DM-2 Mission thread. ;)
« Last Edit: 02/17/2020 02:56 am by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline anof

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1134 on: 02/17/2020 05:32 pm »
Can the "hand-labor intensive" parachutes be reused? Also, does the need for additional testing after 10 already surprise anyone else? Looks to me like the SpaceX crew division and/or NASA just wants something for them to do while waiting on other paperwork to clear.

I think I heard that the 10 tests already done had re-used the same parachutes. I believe that the crew missions with always have new chutes. NASA wants to make sure that brand new chutes from the factory work successfully. Also I think the final 2 test are more like system integration tests. The testing rig might be more like a real capsule.

Do we know they reused the same parachutes 10 times? I haven't seen reporting of this.

It was mentioned on reddit in these posts:
https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/erja7i/nasa_post_launch_media_conference_summary/ff6pn9t/
https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/erja7i/nasa_post_launch_media_conference_summary/ff6psxq/

Offline CameronD

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1135 on: 02/17/2020 09:12 pm »
Quote
NASA confirms SpaceX will become the first company in history to launch astronauts into orbit

NASA has unambiguously confirmed that SpaceX – with its Crew Dragon spacecraft – will soon become the first private company in history to launch astronauts into orbit, both an unexpected twist from the usually tight-lipped space agency and a major upset for Boeing

https://www.teslarati.com/nasa-spacex-first-company-orbital-astronaut-launch/

This is why we should keep things separate, like technical details about Dragon 2 here, and mission specific things like DM-2 in its thread.

NASA PR has already walked this back, with a couple of strategic edits.
We discussed that over in the DM-2 Mission thread. ;)

Sincere apologies.. I thought this was the "SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates" thread.  ;)

If you want to keep it to technical details, then maybe this one needs a new name?  I don't have time to read through the NSF SpaceX Missions section any more - there is simply too much going on over there these days (and that's a good thing!)

« Last Edit: 02/17/2020 09:18 pm by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline su27k

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1136 on: 02/18/2020 04:43 am »
Can the "hand-labor intensive" parachutes be reused? Also, does the need for additional testing after 10 already surprise anyone else? Looks to me like the SpaceX crew division and/or NASA just wants something for them to do while waiting on other paperwork to clear.

I think I heard that the 10 tests already done had re-used the same parachutes. I believe that the crew missions with always have new chutes. NASA wants to make sure that brand new chutes from the factory work successfully. Also I think the final 2 test are more like system integration tests. The testing rig might be more like a real capsule.

Do we know they reused the same parachutes 10 times? I haven't seen reporting of this.

It was mentioned on reddit in these posts:
https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/erja7i/nasa_post_launch_media_conference_summary/ff6pn9t/
https://old.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/erja7i/nasa_post_launch_media_conference_summary/ff6psxq/

It seems to me he didn't explicitly say the previous parachutes are reused, just the new tests will use new parachutes. Also this poster while very active and knowledgeable does not seem to have insider information, so I wouldn't take what he said to be the absolute truth without some other way of verifying it.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1137 on: 02/20/2020 02:38 pm »
twitter.com/carbon_flight/status/1230481429596921856

Quote
There haven't been Health Stabilization posters in Mission Control since 2011. @Commercial_Crew is getting really close to flying people to orbit from the US again!

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1230514716658847744

Quote
Seems like Demo-2 is not far off when you’re warning people not to get the astronauts sick.

Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1138 on: 02/20/2020 04:02 pm »
Quote
NASA confirms SpaceX will become the first company in history to launch astronauts into orbit

NASA has unambiguously confirmed that SpaceX – with its Crew Dragon spacecraft – will soon become the first private company in history to launch astronauts into orbit, both an unexpected twist from the usually tight-lipped space agency and a major upset for Boeing

https://www.teslarati.com/nasa-spacex-first-company-orbital-astronaut-launch/

This is why we should keep things separate, like technical details about Dragon 2 here, and mission specific things like DM-2 in its thread.

NASA PR has already walked this back, with a couple of strategic edits.
We discussed that over in the DM-2 Mission thread. ;)

Sincere apologies.. I thought this was the "SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates" thread.  ;)

If you want to keep it to technical details, then maybe this one needs a new name?  I don't have time to read through the NSF SpaceX Missions section any more - there is simply too much going on over there these days (and that's a good thing!)

That is the reason I quit posting here, seemed every time I did. I would get scolded by someone for something. (this is probably my first post in 2 years) I found other outlets that were less rigid and more welcoming. Now, I hardly even lurk here anymore.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3
« Reply #1139 on: 03/06/2020 08:38 pm »
From CRS-20 pre-launch press conference:

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1236042796924121089

Quote
Koenigsmann says there are two more tests to go on Crew Dragon parachutes, testing “corner cases” in its operation.

https://twitter.com/nova_road/status/1236043107109650433

Quote
.@SpaceX's Hans Koenigsmann says SpaceX performed a parachute test for Crew Dragon two days ago and it has two tests remaining.

https://twitter.com/spcplcyonline/status/1236043061521788930

Quote
Koenigsmann -- "almost done" with parachute tests for Crew Dragon. Two more to do. Turned something that was a concern into a successful test program.
« Last Edit: 03/06/2020 08:39 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

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