SpaceX Dragon 2 Updates and Discussion - Thread 3

[yg1968]

See below. It seems that we came close in 2014 to having only one commercial crew provider: Boeing.

Interesting Tweets by Lori Garver:

https://twitter.com/Lori_Garver/status/1225919829569343489

https://twitter.com/Lori_Garver/status/1225919970225393665

She mentions that she fought with Gerst to have two commercial crew providers (since he only wanted one which was Boeing).

[FutureSpaceTourist]

As well as info on possible DM2 date, Eric Berger’s latest article gives status of crew dragon program

Eric’s write-up of tentative DM-2 date

NASA confirms Crew Dragon almost ready, mostly paperwork left
“Even though it sounds mundane, there is a load of paper that has to be verified.”

ERIC BERGER - 2/11/2020, 2:15 PM

NASA and SpaceX are closing in on the first launch of humans into orbit from US soil since 2011, when the space shuttle made its final flight.

Although the space agency has not yet said so publicly, NASA is working toward a May 7 launch of a Crew Dragon spacecraft carrying astronauts Doug Hurley and Bob Behnken to the International Space Station.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/02/historic-crew-dragon-flight-now-targeted-for-an-early-may-launch/

Edit to add: good info in article on Dragon and crew readiness, such as

"We have some subsystems that are in the vehicle that we think might need to be re-engineered with different kinds of metal, we have a tungsten incompatibility in one of the areas that we want to replace with different kinds of tubing," he said. "It's not major, but it's something that has to be done along the way."

NASA and SpaceX are also in final discussions about additional parachute tests to certify that system for flight. It's likely that SpaceX will conduct two additional tests of brand-new parachutes in the coming weeks to satisfy NASA's needs.

[wannamoonbase]

Sadly the bad news about Starliner generates more articles but this is very good. Crew Dragon is very close to fly.

At the rate that Boeing works this could be at least a year long delay.  It's terribly disappointing that such a storied company is struggling with a budget that is $2B more than their competitor.

I'm really excited that Crew Dragon is potentially 3 months from flying crew.

I disagree with any delay that enables more training for the crew to operate ISS.  Get the test out of the way, stay on the currently plan and get to the first operational flight as soon as possible.

[Comga]

As well as info on possible DM2 date, Eric Berger’s latest article gives status of crew dragon program

Eric’s write-up of tentative DM-2 date

NASA confirms Crew Dragon almost ready, mostly paperwork left
“Even though it sounds mundane, there is a load of paper that has to be verified.”

ERIC BERGER - 2/11/2020, 2:15 PM

NASA and SpaceX are closing in on the first launch of humans into orbit from US soil since 2011, when the space shuttle made its final flight.

Although the space agency has not yet said so publicly, NASA is working toward a May 7 launch of a Crew Dragon spacecraft carrying astronauts Doug Hurley and Bob Behnken to the International Space Station.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/02/historic-crew-dragon-flight-now-targeted-for-an-early-may-launch/

Edit to add: good info in article on Dragon and crew readiness, such as

"We have some subsystems that are in the vehicle that we think might need to be re-engineered with different kinds of metal, we have a tungsten incompatibility in one of the areas that we want to replace with different kinds of tubing," he said. "It's not major, but it's something that has to be done along the way."

NASA and SpaceX are also in final discussions about additional parachute tests to certify that system for flight. It's likely that SpaceX will conduct two additional tests of brand-new parachutes in the coming weeks to satisfy NASA's needs.

Remember that Loverro was the guy who said that NASA didn't have to disclose the Starliner Service Module software issue that had the potential to destroy the capsule because "we fixed it.  There was no anomaly."
And here he goes casually mentioning a "tungsten incompatibility" in Crew Dragon piping.

Has he learned a valuable lession in public relations, or is he just sandbagging SpaceX?
Is he pretending evenhandedness by disclosing issues for both vendors, arcane and preemptive material issues for SpaceX to balance the disclosure of massive failure of software verification for Boeing?

[mgeagon]

Is it not in the best interest of all to question the transparency of any space entity that downplays the LOM potential of OFT as launched? If not for one software glitch and subsequent investigation, a catastrophic collision could have occurred. Now, with mere days before the DM-2s arrival at the cape for mission integration, a very cryptic quote about a specific element and very non-specific subsystem is made to Eric Berger, suggesting SpaceX does not quite have the hardware ready to fly. Yes, we should be curious about the substance of the quote and why it might be dropped at this time.

I get that this forum is rightly devoid of any politics, but it is also foremost a journalistic enterprise. The participants here are seeking the truth and should call out officials whom appear to be clouding it. Yes, we should be careful to not make baseless aspersions to anyone’s character. We should also acknowledge that democratic oversight may have to occasionally cause offence or embarrassment.

[Star One]

[PM3]

During DM1, there was a discussion why the Dragon had two of four windows blindfolded (the side windows to the left and right of the crew seats). They looked like windows on the inside, but were covered on the outside. AFAIR the consensus here in the forum was that this was likely specific to DM1, which did not need so many windows.

But DM2 again has the two side windows covered:

https://twitter.com/astrobehnken/status/1227353192247242759

I'm glad to see a Crew Dragon DM2 capsule video out there to share and show off! Can't wait for the ones from @NASAKennedy as @NASA and @SpaceX bring human spaceflight back to the Florida coast! #LaunchAmerica!

So this looks like a permanent design change. There must be some reason to omit the two windows. Any infos or educated guesses why they did this?

[freddo411]

During DM1, there was a discussion why the Dragon had two of four windows blindfolded (the side windows to the left and right of the crew seats). They looked like windows on the inside, but were covered on the outside. AFAIR the consensus here in the forum was that this was likely specific to DM1, which did not need so many windows.

But DM2 again has the two side windows covered:

So this looks like a permanent design change. There must be some reason to omit the two windows. Any infos or educated guesses why they did this?

Speculating, but there was a constant effort to get their LOC "score"  down to 1 in 270.   Cumulative risk of micrometeoroid damage while parked on orbit drove the LOC number.    I imagine that windows drove the score in the wrong direction.

[oiorionsbelt]

During DM1, there was a discussion why the Dragon had two of four windows blindfolded (the side windows to the left and right of the crew seats). They looked like windows on the inside, but were covered on the outside. AFAIR the consensus here in the forum was that this was likely specific to DM1, which did not need so many windows.

But DM2 again has the two side windows covered:

So this looks like a permanent design change. There must be some reason to omit the two windows. Any infos or educated guesses why they did this?

Speculating, but there was a constant effort to get their LOC "score"  down to 1 in 270.   Cumulative risk of micrometeoroid damage while parked on orbit drove the LOC number.    I imagine that windows drove the score in the wrong direction.

Or maybe you can't see out the window from the two seats to be occupied. They could be back for a larger crew.

[Eka]

During DM1, there was a discussion why the Dragon had two of four windows blindfolded (the side windows to the left and right of the crew seats). They looked like windows on the inside, but were covered on the outside. AFAIR the consensus here in the forum was that this was likely specific to DM1, which did not need so many windows.

But DM2 again has the two side windows covered:

So this looks like a permanent design change. There must be some reason to omit the two windows. Any infos or educated guesses why they did this?

Speculating, but there was a constant effort to get their LOC "score"  down to 1 in 270.   Cumulative risk of micrometeoroid damage while parked on orbit drove the LOC number.    I imagine that windows drove the score in the wrong direction.

Or maybe you can't see out the window from the two seats to be occupied. They could be back for a larger crew.

Too much solar heat and light gain are also potential issues.

[woods170]

During DM1, there was a discussion why the Dragon had two of four windows blindfolded (the side windows to the left and right of the crew seats). They looked like windows on the inside, but were covered on the outside. AFAIR the consensus here in the forum was that this was likely specific to DM1, which did not need so many windows.

But DM2 again has the two side windows covered:

https://twitter.com/astrobehnken/status/1227353192247242759

I'm glad to see a Crew Dragon DM2 capsule video out there to share and show off! Can't wait for the ones from @NASAKennedy as @NASA and @SpaceX bring human spaceflight back to the Florida coast! #LaunchAmerica!

So this looks like a permanent design change. There must be some reason to omit the two windows. Any infos or educated guesses why they did this?

Based on information I had back then I was the one who reported that DM-2 would have four windows. But clearly, that is no longer the case. What changed? I don't know. I'll have to ask my sources.

What is clear however is that on the weldment (the pressure vessel) the cut-outs for all four windows are there. See image below, side window opening circled in red.
For DM-1, and now DM-2 as well, the cut-outs for the side windows are patched over with a pressure plate.

The video from the from the DM-2 vehicle shows that the cut-outs in the main body shell panels - for the side windows - are still there, with an additional body shell patch panel over where the window would have been.

Also, the high-fidelity Crew Dragon simulator, which is used for training the DM-2 crew features the side-windows, from the inside, but again patched over.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/astrobehnken/status/1227827529332994049

The coolest thing about this is seeing how many friends are in this @SpaceX crowd! @Astro_Doug and I have enjoyed getting to know you as you made this spacecraft happen. Thank you for your diligence and dedication!

[FutureSpaceTourist]

twitter.com/nasa_wallops/status/1227989854358777856

A Wallops-based C-130 aircraft arrived in Arizona on Feb. 10 to support parachute tests under NASA’s commercial crew program through the end of month.

twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1228010165162717185

I've heard the company needs to complete two more tests with brand new sets of parachutes. But on Monday, @DouglasLoverro said NASA was still negotiating with SpaceX on a final testing regime.

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1228010607057743875

Basically, completing 10 tests of the Mk 3 parachute by the end of December, 2019, was a minor miracle. SpaceX and NASA have both been highly complimentary to Airborne, which manufactures the parachutes, a hand-labor intensive task.

[CyndyC]

Can the "hand-labor intensive" parachutes be reused? Also, does the need for additional testing after 10 already surprise anyone else? Looks to me like the SpaceX crew division and/or NASA just wants something for them to do while waiting on other paperwork to clear.

[anof]

Can the "hand-labor intensive" parachutes be reused? Also, does the need for additional testing after 10 already surprise anyone else? Looks to me like the SpaceX crew division and/or NASA just wants something for them to do while waiting on other paperwork to clear.

I think I heard that the 10 tests already done had re-used the same parachutes. I believe that the crew missions with always have new chutes. NASA wants to make sure that brand new chutes from the factory work successfully. Also I think the final 2 test are more like system integration tests. The testing rig might be more like a real capsule.

[CyndyC]

Can the "hand-labor intensive" parachutes be reused? Also, does the need for additional testing after 10 already surprise anyone else? Looks to me like the SpaceX crew division and/or NASA just wants something for them to do while waiting on other paperwork to clear.

I think I heard that the 10 tests already done had re-used the same parachutes. I believe that the crew missions with always have new chutes. NASA wants to make sure that brand new chutes from the factory work successfully. Also I think the final 2 test are more like system integration tests. The testing rig might be more like a real capsule.

Thanks! That all sounds logical

[Alexphysics]

It is also worth noting that on that conference back in October they said at least a minimum of 10 drop tests and when they said that they meant drop tests for the main parachute system. They have done dozens of single parachute tests and 2 system-level prachute drop tests which are those that also include the drogue chutes and one of those tests was IFA. Some extra testing was expected after the 10 drop tests mentioned in October and to be honest it is a lot less than what I personally expected. Let's just hope for the best and have patience. We've come a long way until this point so I won't complain if they end up needing some extra time.

[kevinof]

Crew Dragon in Florida ahead of its flight to and from the @space_station
 with @NASA
 astronauts @AstroBehnken
 and @Astro_Doug
 onboard!

https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1228402225690472448

[clongton]

As well as info on possible DM2 date, Eric Berger’s latest article gives status of crew dragon program

Eric’s write-up of tentative DM-2 date

NASA confirms Crew Dragon almost ready, mostly paperwork left
“Even though it sounds mundane, there is a load of paper that has to be verified.”

ERIC BERGER - 2/11/2020, 2:15 PM

NASA and SpaceX are closing in on the first launch of humans into orbit from US soil since 2011, when the space shuttle made its final flight.

Although the space agency has not yet said so publicly, NASA is working toward a May 7 launch of a Crew Dragon spacecraft carrying astronauts Doug Hurley and Bob Behnken to the International Space Station.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/02/historic-crew-dragon-flight-now-targeted-for-an-early-may-launch/

Edit to add: good info in article on Dragon and crew readiness, such as

"We have some subsystems that are in the vehicle that we think might need to be re-engineered with different kinds of metal, we have a tungsten incompatibility in one of the areas that we want to replace with different kinds of tubing," he said. "It's not major, but it's something that has to be done along the way."

NASA and SpaceX are also in final discussions about additional parachute tests to certify that system for flight. It's likely that SpaceX will conduct two additional tests of brand-new parachutes in the coming weeks to satisfy NASA's needs.

Is it possible that he said "tungsten" but actually meant "titanium"? That would point back to the DM-1 use for the IFA static fire anomaly and make his sentence make more sense. That was indeed a titanium issue. Just thinking out loud.

[mgeagon]

Tungsten tubing is a thing, especially as a laminate or alloy. It has the highest melting point of any metal at 3410°C. Dunno why it took Edison so long to choose it for the light bulb.