Author Topic: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!  (Read 5770 times)

Offline speedevil

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3051
  • Fife
  • Liked: 1533
  • Likes Given: 1802
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #40 on: 08/11/2018 08:07 PM »
I like Picard and TNG, but this seems like a *terrible* idea indicating a real lack of imagination on the creators behalf. Unless this is a very short mini-series.
On its face, with the most obvious 'Picard returns to do new episodes of badly written TNG fanfic ignoring his age' presentation, yes.

I am hopeful that this isn't what it is.

Offline ChrisWilson68

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3786
  • Sunnyvale, CA
  • Liked: 2409
  • Likes Given: 3116
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #41 on: 08/11/2018 10:00 PM »
*One can ask whatever happened to those 29th Century 'Time Cops' (i.e., the USS Relativity on Voyager or Mr. Daniels on Enterprise) who were fixing timeline incursions. How did they miss Vulcan going kablooey?

Maybe the Daleks got them.

Offline Ike17055

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 167
  • Liked: 101
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #42 on: 08/12/2018 12:55 AM »
William Shatner is a great actor- yes, a little corny at times but also capable of drop-dead dramatic situations.

Watch this scene again. Watch it from the beginning and pay attention to Shatner's voice and his facial expressions and how he moves. It's an amazing bit of acting, right down to him sinking down to the floor, totally defeated.

It's a great bit of acting by Nimoy too.

Lots to choose from: check out the scene in ST 3 when his son, David is killed.  “You Klingon bastards; you‘ve killed my son....”

Also, same film: the mind meld with Sarek, and the realization he must return to return to the Genesis planet, risking all. Really good drama, great emotion. ST 3 highly underated film as well.

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11384
  • Liked: 2897
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #43 on: 08/12/2018 09:33 PM »
Lots to choose from: check out the scene in ST 3 when his son, David is killed.  “You Klingon bastards; you‘ve killed my son....”

You can see it in the original series as well. I'm blanking on which episode it was, but I watched an original series episode a number of months ago and was impressed with Shatner's acting. He's quite good in some episodes. (For instance "City on the Edge of Forever.") I think that too often Shatner has been called a "bad" actor. That's not really accurate. He at times was a hammy actor and chewed scenery when he didn't have to. But in some cases, given the right material, he could be very good. Maybe his range was narrow, or maybe he just wasn't consistently giving good performances, but he certainly had ability.

Offline TripleSeven

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 682
  • Istanbul turkey
  • Liked: 294
  • Likes Given: 1238
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #44 on: 08/12/2018 09:52 PM »
Lots to choose from: check out the scene in ST 3 when his son, David is killed.  “You Klingon bastards; you‘ve killed my son....”

You can see it in the original series as well. I'm blanking on which episode it was, but I watched an original series episode a number of months ago and was impressed with Shatner's acting. He's quite good in some episodes. (For instance "City on the Edge of Forever.") I think that too often Shatner has been called a "bad" actor. That's not really accurate. He at times was a hammy actor and chewed scenery when he didn't have to. But in some cases, given the right material, he could be very good. Maybe his range was narrow, or maybe he just wasn't consistently giving good performances, but he certainly had ability.

 that is in my view a very very good description

Shatner in my view, at least in the STar Trek series...acts the script...he gets "Hammy" as you would put it when the plot is kind of hammy but in KHAN (loud voice) he does in my view an amazing performance...he plays a guy/gal who is rusty, and feeling for skills that he knew he once had but which have gone rusty...he slowly "gets better" until he returns to his old self...and the scene at Spocks death is to me just wonderful acting

A Taste of Armagedon, Doomsday machine, amock time...etc are just in my view amazing performances.

and in none Trek...some of his performance in Boston legal are haunting. 

Online MATTBLAK

  • Elite Veteran & 'J.A.F.A'
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4433
  • 'Space Cadets' Let us; UNITE!! (crickets chirping)
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 1183
  • Likes Given: 2288
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #45 on: 08/12/2018 09:53 PM »
There were moments in the original series where he was brilliant. And his best tragi-comic moments on 'Boston Legal' were superb.
"Those who can't, Blog".   'Space Cadets' of the World - Let us UNITE!! (crickets chirping)

Online mme

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1280
  • Santa Barbara, CA, USA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, Virgo Supercluster
  • Liked: 1610
  • Likes Given: 4301
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #46 on: 08/12/2018 10:38 PM »
Since everyone is talking about Shatner, his 2004 album "Has Been" made me fan: Pickfork review of Has Been.

You have to listen to the whole album though to feel it's beauty and brilliance. I disagree with the end of the review though. The songs "It Hasn't Happened Yet" and "What Have You Done?" are also awesome.

On topic:

Patrick Stewart is an absolute gift to humanity and I look forward to seeing what Captain Picard gets up to in retirement. 78 Earth years is not that old in 2383. Get with the program folks.
« Last Edit: 08/12/2018 10:38 PM by mme »
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline speedevil

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3051
  • Fife
  • Liked: 1533
  • Likes Given: 1802
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #47 on: 08/12/2018 11:20 PM »
On topic:
Patrick Stewart is an absolute gift to humanity and I look forward to seeing what Captain Picard gets up to in retirement. 78 Earth years is not that old in 2383.
But it is.
In the final of TNG, he is around that stardate - in the 'flash-forward' - and retired and ill.
He does not refer to this state as being surprising - 'why wasn't I healed and still in starfleet' - as he would have if it was routine to be healthy and working at 100.
Also, if this was true, there should have been lots of much older captains met along the way, and there aren't.

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11384
  • Liked: 2897
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #48 on: 08/13/2018 12:00 AM »
Since everyone is talking about Shatner, his 2004 album "Has Been" made me fan: Pickfork review of Has Been.

You have to listen to the whole album though to feel it's beauty and brilliance. I disagree with the end of the review though. The songs "It Hasn't Happened Yet" and "What Have You Done?" are also awesome.


Shatner singing "Common People" is hilarious.



But you wanna know the man, look up Wil Wheaton's essay "William [bleeping] Shatner" (you need to type in the actual word in Google). It is the funniest thing you'll read in a long time. Trust me.

Offline TripleSeven

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 682
  • Istanbul turkey
  • Liked: 294
  • Likes Given: 1238
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #49 on: 08/13/2018 12:07 AM »
Since everyone is talking about Shatner, his 2004 album "Has Been" made me fan: Pickfork review of Has Been.

You have to listen to the whole album though to feel it's beauty and brilliance. I disagree with the end of the review though. The songs "It Hasn't Happened Yet" and "What Have You Done?" are also awesome.


Shatner singing "Common People" is hilarious.



But you wanna know the man, look up Wil Wheaton's essay "William [bleeping] Shatner" (you need to type in the actual word in Google). It is the funniest thing you'll read in a long time. Trust me.


FREE ENTERPRISE :)

Online MATTBLAK

  • Elite Veteran & 'J.A.F.A'
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4433
  • 'Space Cadets' Let us; UNITE!! (crickets chirping)
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 1183
  • Likes Given: 2288
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #50 on: 08/13/2018 12:10 AM »
Since everyone is talking about Shatner, his 2004 album "Has Been" made me fan: Pickfork review of Has Been.

You have to listen to the whole album though to feel it's beauty and brilliance. I disagree with the end of the review though. The songs "It Hasn't Happened Yet" and "What Have You Done?" are also awesome.

On topic:

Patrick Stewart is an absolute gift to humanity and I look forward to seeing what Captain Picard gets up to in retirement. 78 Earth years is not that old in 2383. Get with the program folks.
I didn't know this till relatively recently, but Picard is supposed to be ten years older than Patrick Stewart who plays him. So he would be pushing 90. I believe the mandatory retirement age for human Starfleet Captains on Starship Command duty is 100. After that; they have to be Starbase-based or they can take retirement.
"Those who can't, Blog".   'Space Cadets' of the World - Let us UNITE!! (crickets chirping)

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11384
  • Liked: 2897
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #51 on: 08/13/2018 12:11 AM »
is kind of hammy but in KHAN (loud voice) he does in my view an amazing performance...he plays a guy/gal who is rusty, and feeling for skills that he knew he once had but which have gone rusty...he slowly "gets better" until he returns to his old self...and the scene at Spocks death is to me just wonderful acting

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is showing at one of my local theaters August 20. You might check and see if it's showing near you too.

There is a great arc to Kirk's story (just as there was a good arc to Spock's story in the previous film). Kirk spends much of the film fighting against retaking the command chair. He's finding excuses, and he's not seizing the opportunity. It's not just that he's rusty, he is holding back because he somehow thinks it's wrong and that he shouldn't be in command, and then that nearly gets them all killed. He only gets his cockiness back after beaming down to the planetoid (and eating the apple--symbolic?). He doesn't believe in the no-win scenario, right? Then he gets back in the game and he defeats Khan. But he ends up paying a price for his actions, losing his best friend in the process. It's a wonderful story arc. And in some ways it mirrors Spock's story arc in the first film, where Spock reluctantly goes back to the Enterprise, feeling like he has failed in achieving his goal of "total logic." And by the end of the film, Spock realizes that there's much more to the universe than logic and that he belongs on the Enterprise.

I think The Wrath of Khan is a well-done film, although it has some mostly minor problems. Shatner's acting is good for most of it and sometimes outstanding (like the death scene with Spock), but a few of his lines are sub-standard. There's a story about how he delivered the line "Here it comes" just before using the Prefix Code to lower Reliant's shields. He kept delivering the line in a snarky/sarcastic manner that the director thought sounded wrong. It's the kind of thing that probably would have tipped off Khan that something was going on as soon as he heard it. So Nicolas Meyer kept asking Shatner to re-do the shot. But with actors with huge egos (coughShatnercough) you cannot really tell them that they did a line wrong or ask for a different delivery. So Meyer kept blaming the need for a re-shot on a problem with the sound, or a camera glitch or something. Eventually, after a bunch of takes, he simply tired Shatner out, which is how come Kirk almost sounds bored when he delivers that line. It's a poor delivery, but the best one the director could get out of him.
« Last Edit: 08/13/2018 12:20 AM by Blackstar »

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11384
  • Liked: 2897
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #52 on: 08/13/2018 12:16 AM »

I didn't know this till relatively recently, but Picard is supposed to be ten years older than Patrick Stewart who plays him. So he would be pushing 90. I believe the mandatory retirement age for human Starfleet Captains on Starship Command duty is 100. After that; they have to be Starbase-based or they can take retirement.

Star Trek has always had a bit of a problem with this issue. As a franchise, they wanted to keep their stars in the center seat as long as possible. In real life that would not work--you have a few thousand starships, you cannot keep the same people in command of them for a decade or more at a time, you need to rotate them out.

The U.S. Navy is the extreme other end of this--often a captain will be in command of a ship for only one year and then they're out. Maybe they'll get a couple of commands, but that's it. They're constantly rotating new people into command. There are reasons to do this, but I've often thought (without any good inside knowledge) that it's a poor way to get experienced people in command. It takes a long time to get good at what you do, and if somebody is good going into command, why would you only want to get one year out of them? And if they need more than a year in command to get good, you're not giving them that experience.

Offline TripleSeven

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 682
  • Istanbul turkey
  • Liked: 294
  • Likes Given: 1238
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #53 on: 08/13/2018 12:26 AM »

I didn't know this till relatively recently, but Picard is supposed to be ten years older than Patrick Stewart who plays him. So he would be pushing 90. I believe the mandatory retirement age for human Starfleet Captains on Starship Command duty is 100. After that; they have to be Starbase-based or they can take retirement.

Star Trek has always had a bit of a problem with this issue. As a franchise, they wanted to keep their stars in the center seat as long as possible. In real life that would not work--you have a few thousand starships, you cannot keep the same people in command of them for a decade or more at a time, you need to rotate them out.

The U.S. Navy is the extreme other end of this--often a captain will be in command of a ship for only one year and then they're out. Maybe they'll get a couple of commands, but that's it. They're constantly rotating new people into command. There are reasons to do this, but I've often thought (without any good inside knowledge) that it's a poor way to get experienced people in command. It takes a long time to get good at what you do, and if somebody is good going into command, why would you only want to get one year out of them? And if they need more than a year in command to get good, you're not giving them that experience.

yes...my late wife's  father, my father in law: he was well unique ...he got four years on Big E with the title Enterprise.  today one is lucky if they get 14 months...when my father in law made flag...he was very happy but one night on the bridge as we sailed with him in command...for the last time into Norfolk we were both standing there in the dark night, I congratulated him on the two stars (lower half0 and his reply was "I have to give her up"

he went on to be CincPac and finally Vice Chairman JCS but everytime he came on Big E...he always looked hard at the bridge...the Captains Bridge.

Both Picard and Kirk were "lucky"   :)

Offline TripleSeven

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 682
  • Istanbul turkey
  • Liked: 294
  • Likes Given: 1238
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #54 on: 08/13/2018 12:40 AM »
is kind of hammy but in KHAN (loud voice) he does in my view an amazing performance...he plays a guy/gal who is rusty, and feeling for skills that he knew he once had but which have gone rusty...he slowly "gets better" until he returns to his old self...and the scene at Spocks death is to me just wonderful acting

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is showing at one of my local theaters August 20. You might check and see if it's showing near you too.

There is a great arc to Kirk's story (just as there was a good arc to Spock's story in the previous film). Kirk spends much of the film fighting against retaking the command chair. He's finding excuses, and he's not seizing the opportunity. It's not just that he's rusty, he is holding back because he somehow thinks it's wrong and that he shouldn't be in command, and then that nearly gets them all killed. He only gets his cockiness back after beaming down to the planetoid (and eating the apple--symbolic?). He doesn't believe in the no-win scenario, right? Then he gets back in the game and he defeats Khan. But he ends up paying a price for his actions, losing his best friend in the process. It's a wonderful story arc. And in some ways it mirrors Spock's story arc in the first film, where Spock reluctantly goes back to the Enterprise, feeling like he has failed in achieving his goal of "total logic." And by the end of the film, Spock realizes that there's much more to the universe than logic and that he belongs on the Enterprise.

I think The Wrath of Khan is a well-done film, although it has some mostly minor problems. Shatner's acting is good for most of it and sometimes outstanding (like the death scene with Spock), but a few of his lines are sub-standard. There's a story about how he delivered the line "Here it comes" just before using the Prefix Code to lower Reliant's shields. He kept delivering the line in a snarky/sarcastic manner that the director thought sounded wrong. It's the kind of thing that probably would have tipped off Khan that something was going on as soon as he heard it. So Nicolas Meyer kept asking Shatner to re-do the shot. But with actors with huge egos (coughShatnercough) you cannot really tell them that they did a line wrong or ask for a different delivery. So Meyer kept blaming the need for a re-shot on a problem with the sound, or a camera glitch or something. Eventually, after a bunch of takes, he simply tired Shatner out, which is how come Kirk almost sounds bored when he delivers that line. It's a poor delivery, but the best one the director could get out of him.

I would agree with everything that you said.

actually after I posted what I did, late here in Istanbul like early in the morning but tomorrow is another day off..I got it out and watched some part of it

in addition to what you said

Shatner plays the "aging Hornblower, or John Paul Jones..." well.  the scene where Kirk comes to tell Spock about the issue ...and they talk about command...reminds me a bit of the interplay with Spock in the (sorry its early here and I have had some Jack D) episode where Kirk and SPock have a moment discussing the Pon Farr.  the discussion of living things the intimacy of "Kirk and command"  the discussion of "I am a Vulcan"...logic alone dictating actions... as with all living things according to their own gifts...

to me the entire "show" is well written with "links to the series.

as I grow older (51 headed for 52) an old fighter pilot where today I mostly train very young people in the craft I love so much.  I realize there are more days behind than ahead of doing what I do...

I see more magic in Shatners acting...

interesting about the snarky line.  Snarky is how in combat I would have delivered them... my phrase is either "bite me" or "yeah we will do that just as soon as H freezes over"

again nice comments...and well its been fun watching it
« Last Edit: 08/13/2018 12:41 AM by TripleSeven »

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11384
  • Liked: 2897
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #55 on: 08/13/2018 01:33 AM »
the discussion of living things the intimacy of "Kirk and command"  the discussion of "I am a Vulcan"...logic alone dictating actions... as with all living things according to their own gifts...


That's a scene that fits Kirk's story arc--he is reluctant to take command and Spock tells him not only that it is regulations that he should take command, but that he belongs there.

TNG had some similar moments throughout its run. Picard got annoyed with Riker for turning down command several times. And the series' finale ("All Good Things") had a great final scene with them all playing cards and Picard pausing and wondering why he had not done that with them before. It was a nice way of him acknowledging that he had a close crew but he kept them a bit farther than he should have.

Online mme

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1280
  • Santa Barbara, CA, USA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, Virgo Supercluster
  • Liked: 1610
  • Likes Given: 4301
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #56 on: 08/13/2018 02:05 AM »
On topic:
Patrick Stewart is an absolute gift to humanity and I look forward to seeing what Captain Picard gets up to in retirement. 78 Earth years is not that old in 2383.
But it is.
In the final of TNG, he is around that stardate - in the 'flash-forward' - and retired and ill.
He does not refer to this state as being surprising - 'why wasn't I healed and still in starfleet' - as he would have if it was routine to be healthy and working at 100.
Also, if this was true, there should have been lots of much older captains met along the way, and there aren't.
Admiral McCoy was 137 in the first episode of TNG and if Patrick Stewart can have an interesting life at 78 in 2018 I think it's possible for someone in 2383 to have an interesting life at the age of 78. This show is not about him being Captain of the Enterprise, it's about what he did after that.

As for "All Good Things...", do they say exactly when it is set?  I thought it was 20 years in the future from the episode which would have put it around 2390 or 2391. After all Geordi  is married and has a son entering Star Fleet.

Plus it's pretty easy to wave away a multiple timeline Q episode as not representing the "real" future, if one is so inclined. Which I am. :)
« Last Edit: 08/13/2018 02:05 AM by mme »
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Online Thorny

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 694
  • San Angelo, Texas
  • Liked: 135
  • Likes Given: 153
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #57 on: 08/13/2018 02:17 AM »
You can see it in the original series as well. I'm blanking on which episode it was, but I watched an original series episode a number of months ago and was impressed with Shatner's acting.

Perhaps, "The Conscience of the King" (the Kodos the Executioner episode)?

Online MATTBLAK

  • Elite Veteran & 'J.A.F.A'
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4433
  • 'Space Cadets' Let us; UNITE!! (crickets chirping)
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 1183
  • Likes Given: 2288
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #58 on: 08/13/2018 03:00 AM »
Shatner's pretty good in 'Day Of The Dove' and 'The Ultimate Computer'.
"Those who can't, Blog".   'Space Cadets' of the World - Let us UNITE!! (crickets chirping)

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11384
  • Liked: 2897
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: New Star Trek Series with Patrick Stewart returning!
« Reply #59 on: 08/13/2018 03:14 AM »
You can see it in the original series as well. I'm blanking on which episode it was, but I watched an original series episode a number of months ago and was impressed with Shatner's acting.

Perhaps, "The Conscience of the King" (the Kodos the Executioner episode)?

It would have been one of the episodes on "The Roddenberry Vault" Blu-Ray, which I highly recommend. (I have the full series, but that's the set that I was watching most recently.) So maybe "City on the Edge of Forever."

But I think, upon reflection, that Shatner actually did quite well in the quieter, more nuanced scenes, when he was supposed to be showing empathy or vulnerability. If he was acting with somebody else and he was supposed to tone it down he could do well. It was the scenes where he was being more commanding or daring that he tended to over-do it and give his lines more loudness and emphasis than they deserved. Anytime he was monologuing he could get himself into trouble, and those were the kinds of scenes that critics jumped on and comedians used in their acts. (i.e. "We... the... People...")

Tags: