SpaceX Falcon 9 / Dragon 2 : SpX-DM2 : May 27, 2020 : DISCUSSION

[Jorge]

Do they fly T-38's everyone? No. Would it benefit them on this mission? No.

Do we know if post-shuttle NASA astronaut pilots still train and stay current on the T-38, and astronaut non-pilots still pull back seat time?  NASA has historically considered the cockpit time a useful discipline.

Not just a useful discipline, but a useful predictor of performance in stressful situations.

Back in the day where astronauts had to fly an unpowered glider back from space, sure, being a good pilot made sense. I don't think the same skillset translates to this current generation of capsules.

Again, based on the T-38 traffic I see every day, NASA does not agree with you.

[Lars-J]

Well if this is a break in tradition (and not due to just Covid concerns), then it is a great time to change tradition, and truly move into the post-Shuttle era.

[Wolfram66]

Did someone forget to install an engine??

[Lars-J]

Nice photos of the crew Dragon and boosters from the update thread.

I assume the new booster on the left is the one earmarked for the GPS mission?

[AS-503]

Do they fly T-38's everyone? No. Would it benefit them on this mission? No.

Do we know if post-shuttle NASA astronaut pilots still train and stay current on the T-38, and astronaut non-pilots still pull back seat time?  NASA has historically considered the cockpit time a useful discipline.

Not just a useful discipline, but a useful predictor of performance in stressful situations.

Back in the day where astronauts had to fly an unpowered glider back from space, sure, being a good pilot made sense. I don't think the same skillset translates to this current generation of capsules.

However if you want to stress test an astronaut candidate in a relevant environment, just stick them deep in the Neutral Buoyancy Laboratory pool and then turn off their air supply... 

<cough> the avionics\computer "flew" the vehicle through all of the most critical regimes. Just like Apollo's critical skip re-entry. Neither of these were performed exclusively by a human in the loop. You simply can't stick-and-rudder this stuff.

[freddo411]

Was the DM-1 flight the first time solar panels have launched affixed on the exterior of a vehicle (as opposed to inside the fairing or other cover)?

I can't think of any.

[obi-wan]

NASA pilot astronauts are required to get 15 hrs/month as PIC (front seat) in the T-38. (For those who are active duty military, this is also important for flight pay.) Astronauts not rated for front seat are expected to get 10-12 hrs/month back seat time for practice as a flight crew member (e.g., handling radio communications, navigating, flight planning.) (An astronaut friend told me that their branch had the lowest travel costs at JSC, because all T-38 flights count as training.) I suspect people are right that they have made a programmatic decision not to have Dragon/Starliner crews fly out in T-38s, but it would be nice if Chris could ask about it in a press conference...

[Coastal Ron]

Back in the day where astronauts had to fly an unpowered glider back from space, sure, being a good pilot made sense. I don't think the same skillset translates to this current generation of capsules...

<cough> the avionics\computer "flew" the vehicle through all of the most critical regimes. Just like Apollo's critical skip re-entry. Neither of these were performed exclusively by a human in the loop. You simply can't stick-and-rudder this stuff.

Joe Engle was the only astronaut to have manually flown the Shuttle in and landed it.

I think the assumption was that on every flight the pilots had to be prepared to take over in case of computer failure, and luckily that didn't happen. But the Shuttle was an aircraft, so pilots trained on the Shuttle Training Aircraft (STA), a modified Grumman C-11.

I'm not sure how flying a T-38 would translate to a capsule. Though it looks macho! 

[Prober]

Get ready folks.....just heard of a possible presidential sendoff. 


See the press brief today.

[Alexphysics]

Did someone forget to install an engine??

Engines are routinely removed, inspected and sometimes even swapped on every booster but I would expect that one precisely to not be from this rocket but rather from one of the used boosters on the left.

[centaurinasa]

https://twitter.com/AstroBehnken/status/1263227236439728135   

[racevedo88]

Do they fly T-38's everyone? No. Would it benefit them on this mission? No.

Do we know if post-shuttle NASA astronaut pilots still train and stay current on the T-38, and astronaut non-pilots still pull back seat time?  NASA has historically considered the cockpit time a useful discipline.

Not just a useful discipline, but a useful predictor of performance in stressful situations.

Back in the day where astronauts had to fly an unpowered glider back from space, sure, being a good pilot made sense. I don't think the same skillset translates to this current generation of capsules.

Again, based on the T-38 traffic I see every day, NASA does not agree with you.

Actually, IMHO it takes twice as many ground crew to get the t-38s ready as it takes to get the gulfstream, in this era of covid19 it might just be a way to minimize exposure. Considering that there are probably other nasa people that needed to get to florida for launch, this was probably a way to get to florida with the least amount of ground support necessary

[Wayne Hale]

So in the old days NASASpaceflight.com used to get the Shuttle FRR briefing presentations almost as quickly as they were presented.  Wonder if that is going to happen with the FRR going on today?  Or is security at NASA that much better these days??

[Prober]

Get ready folks.....just heard of a possible presidential sendoff. 


See the press brief today.

UPDATE:  Confirmed a few ago...  8:11

[NX-0]

Do they fly T-38's everyone? No. Would it benefit them on this mission? No.

Do we know if post-shuttle NASA astronaut pilots still train and stay current on the T-38, and astronaut non-pilots still pull back seat time?  NASA has historically considered the cockpit time a useful discipline.

Not just a useful discipline, but a useful predictor of performance in stressful situations.

Back in the day where astronauts had to fly an unpowered glider back from space, sure, being a good pilot made sense. I don't think the same skillset translates to this current generation of capsules.

Again, based on the T-38 traffic I see every day, NASA does not agree with you.

Actually, IMHO it takes twice as many ground crew to get the t-38s ready as it takes to get the gulfstream, in this era of covid19 it might just be a way to minimize exposure. Considering that there are probably other nasa people that needed to get to florida for launch, this was probably a way to get to florida with the least amount of ground support necessary

I believe there was a crackdown at some point of Astro's using T-38s. It is expensive. During shuttle, 4 T-38s for crew of 7 vs one Gulfstream.
Not as cool, by any means, but the Gulfstream saves some money.

[cwr]

Do they fly T-38's everyone? No. Would it benefit them on this mission? No.

Do we know if post-shuttle NASA astronaut pilots still train and stay current on the T-38, and astronaut non-pilots still pull back seat time?  NASA has historically considered the cockpit time a useful discipline.

Not just a useful discipline, but a useful predictor of performance in stressful situations.

Back in the day where astronauts had to fly an unpowered glider back from space, sure, being a good pilot made sense. I don't think the same skillset translates to this current generation of capsules.

Again, based on the T-38 traffic I see every day, NASA does not agree with you.

Actually, IMHO it takes twice as many ground crew to get the t-38s ready as it takes to get the gulfstream, in this era of covid19 it might just be a way to minimize exposure. Considering that there are probably other nasa people that needed to get to florida for launch, this was probably a way to get to florida with the least amount of ground support necessary

I believe there was a crackdown at some point of Astro's using T-38s. It is expensive. During shuttle, 4 T-38s for crew of 7 vs one Gulfstream.
Not as cool, by any means, but the Gulfstream saves some money.

As I recollect it the shuttle crew would fly from Houston to Kennedy on T-38s and the Gulfstream would fly in with a load of passengers as well. I think these passengers comprised the Medical Team and support staff.

Carl

[Tulse]

Was the DM-1 flight the first time solar panels have launched affixed on the exterior of a vehicle (as opposed to inside the fairing or other cover)?

I can't think of any.

I was curious about this as well. In general the use of conformal solar panels (as opposed to large deployed panels) seems rather rare.

[whitelancer64]

Was the DM-1 flight the first time solar panels have launched affixed on the exterior of a vehicle (as opposed to inside the fairing or other cover)?

I can't think of any.

I was curious about this as well. In general the use of conformal solar panels (as opposed to large deployed panels) seems rather rare.

Conformal solar panels are very common (or it used to be) on satellites.

[ejb749]

Static fire is going to be with the Dragon attached.  Did they do this for DM1 and the pad abort?

[Alexphysics]

Static fire is going to be with the Dragon attached.  Did they do this for DM1 and the pad abort?

Yes for Demo-1 and no for IFA