Author Topic: SLS General Discussion Thread 3  (Read 61518 times)

Offline jkumpire

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Re: SLS General Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #340 on: 11/22/2018 12:28 PM »
The PERFECT example is the J2X engine. Development was fully funded. Full funding even continued long after the upper stage it was supposed to power was cancelled. Final prototype was test fired and the engine was CERTIFIED operational. So where is it now? On the shelf. Developed - completely. Never used, and likely never will be used. J2X is an engine without a stage to use it. Just as the SLS is a rocket without a payload to lift.

Same difference - No difference.

So nobody learned anything at all from the J2x program? It was only a bloated research program of no value to pay engineers? Ok.

Offline speedevil

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Re: SLS General Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #341 on: 11/22/2018 12:42 PM »
So nobody learned anything at all from the J2x program? It was only a bloated research program of no value to pay engineers? Ok.
Perhaps a little strong, but only a little.
The only possible useful outputs of a research program (as this one ended up as) are things which lead to cost(*) savings in subsequent designs.

If these subsequent cost savings are less than the cost of the research program to generate them, then it is not unreasonable to say that the program has been of no value.

*) Or schedule/risk impacting cost.

Updating an old design, and making it with current technology is not of itself learning anything, unless you learn particular things that were not known before about using the current technology which are widely applicable to all new designs.

Online Lars-J

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Re: SLS General Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #342 on: 11/22/2018 07:09 PM »
Just curious-- Will this happen if EM-1 is a successful flight in the 2019-2020 time frame? 

As this site has just posted a long article on the beginning of mating Orion and the Service Module (EUS?) and the massive testing program that is going on to make sure it works, it is hard for me to accept the premise that if the flight is successful that will be the end of the program and it will fade away. 

If the booster is successful as say, an Atlas A, I could see the program dying. But walking away from it after one successful mission after all the hurdles it has jumped over to fly? I just can't see it.

The long term fate of SLS is not tied to its own success. It is tied to the success or failure of other commercial projects. SLS could have a perfect flight record and still go away.

A government project can go away as easily as it was started, for various reasons. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: SLS General Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #343 on: 11/23/2018 05:51 AM »
You all may be right that SLS will just fade away since it was just a jobs or rocket building program pushed by a few senators from one party to being home the bacon to their districts/states, but when the program fades away where do the jobs go and what replaces them?

If you are a Boeing employee working on the SLS, or a Lockheed Martin employee working on the Orion, then those companies are very large and they could absorb those laid off. Or, if the economy is doing OK, the laid off workers could get jobs with other companies, though they might have to move.

This is really no different than any other company reducing headcount, or companies that fold.

I still find it hard to believe that politicians are so jaded they just run the car off the cliff when they are done with it, instead of finding other uses for it.

If you mean what I think you mean, then that is exactly what happened with the SLS and Orion - they were downgraded versions of hardware from the cancelled Constellation program, which was cancelled at the beginning of the worst recession in modern history. Which is how we got to today.

What our political leaders should always be doing is making sure that we understand what the goals are, both directly and indirectly. And that applies to funding programs, and also to defunding them.

For instance, if Congress were to consider cancelling the SLS program I would hope that they commission a study to look into what that would mean for NASA, and what our options would be going forward. And we know that we can have a robust and cost effective HSF exploration program without the SLS, but Congress needs to understand how much that will cost and what it will achieve in our overall space goals.

And reviews are great - one should have been done at the time of the Constellation program, but wasn't, so NASA ended up being told to build a rocket that they were not involved in designing. We should not repeat mistakes like that...

Happy American Thanksgiving Day to you and yours, whatever country you call home.

Thank you, and Happy Holidays to you and yours, wherever you may be!
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline MaxTeranous

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Re: SLS General Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #344 on: 11/30/2018 09:45 AM »
I think you all are getting way ahead of yourselves thinking SLS will be canceled anytime for the foreseeable future.

People have different ideas what "foreseeable" means. Clearly the head of NASA will never say cancelling a major project is something is foreseeable right up to the moment it's actually cancelled. And that's fine, it's literally their job.

Us in the peanut gallery tho can certainly foresee a potential in say 2021 with a new political situation in Washington, New Glenn flying, BFS in testing and Vulcan flying but due to delays SLS still hasn't flown - SLS being cancelled in that case is certainly "foreseeable".

Offline theinternetftw

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Re: SLS General Discussion Thread 3
« Reply #345 on: 12/06/2018 07:59 PM »
Even beyond the end of EUS as we know it is the plan going forward: a narrowing of SLS 1B ability.  EUS 2.0 will be designed with Gateway in mind.  And nothing else.  At least they're designing for a real mission with real requirements.  But the folks that invented the tail are probably now realizing that it has started to wag the dog.
« Last Edit: 12/06/2018 08:00 PM by theinternetftw »