Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-16 (Dragon SpX-16) : December 5, 2018 - DISCUSSION (Read 255691 times)

Step55 · « **Reply #520 on:** 12/07/2018 02:24 pm »

Quote from: edkyle99 on 12/07/2018 02:13 pm

Quote from: Wolfram66 on 12/07/2018 01:58 pm
After the last time they soft landed a booster in the water, they should have had a contingency plan in place.
I agree. The contingency plan should be to tow it out of sea lanes and to provide a means to safely sink it. This thing is probably costing them more money to salvage than it would cost to pull to deep water and sink. Or, better yet, modify the software to do a crash landing instead of a soft landing in such instances.

- Ed Kyle

Would there be a security issue with leaving almost pristine Merlin 1Ds in shallow water?

CorvusCorax · « **Reply #521 on:** 12/07/2018 02:32 pm »

Quote from: Step55 on 12/07/2018 02:24 pm

Quote from: edkyle99 on 12/07/2018 02:13 pm
Quote from: Wolfram66 on 12/07/2018 01:58 pm
After the last time they soft landed a booster in the water, they should have had a contingency plan in place.
I agree. The contingency plan should be to tow it out of sea lanes and to provide a means to safely sink it. This thing is probably costing them more money to salvage than it would cost to pull to deep water and sink. Or, better yet, modify the software to do a crash landing instead of a soft landing in such instances.

- Ed Kyle

Would there be a security issue with leaving almost pristine Merlin 1Ds in shallow water?

Nah, the guys from BO would probably get to it first, and they have all the required clearances >;>>>

SimonFD · « **Reply #522 on:** 12/07/2018 02:45 pm »

Quote from: Steve D on 12/07/2018 02:24 pm

From looking at the two palms webcam it seems to be under tow right now

The stage has exited stage-right (pun intended)

joncz · « **Reply #523 on:** 12/07/2018 02:51 pm »

VoldeCam just went passive-aggressive

{and I've been clicking through their ads from time to time}

ValmirGP · « **Reply #524 on:** 12/07/2018 02:54 pm »

Quote from: Semmel on 12/07/2018 02:26 pm

A note to our newer members. In the past that webcam operator was very unhappy with us space fans. I suggest to NOT post any screen shots from their cam (they actually forbid it and your posts will be deleted if you do post images) and refrain from linking to them. We used to reference to them as the "web cam that shall not be named".

PS: Welcome to the forum

Good to finally know the history behind this. I'm not so knew to the forum and have seen mentions to this web cam from time to time and was curious about the "shall not be named" thing, but not so much so as to take the time to ask.

RoboGoofers · « **Reply #525 on:** 12/07/2018 02:55 pm »

Quote from: vanoord on 12/07/2018 02:17 pm

Quote from: Wolfram66 on 12/07/2018 01:58 pm
Not sure why this is such a difficult problem to solve. SpaceX owns a MARMAC barge, this is designed to do things like this.. Drive lift crane onto OCISLY, dispatch to booster w/ tug, Lift booster on to deck, return to dock, drive crane off OCISLY, deal with booster.....

It's like watching mimes in a box... guys... there IS no box.

There is a similar barge with a crane or excavator currently maintaining the Port Canaveral channel as we speak.... so don't say it can't be done.

There's no way of getting any big crane onto OCISLY as the barge has deck extensions which will not take much weight.

It's much simpler to bring the booster into the port and deal with it there.

OCISLY has probably got too much valuable equipment on it for this, but i thought that they could fill some of the compartments with water to partially submerge one side and then scoop up stuff.

Joffan · « **Reply #526 on:** 12/07/2018 03:04 pm »

Quote from: RoboGoofers on 12/07/2018 02:55 pm

OCISLY has probably got too much valuable equipment on it for this, but i thought that they could fill some of the compartments with water to partially submerge one side and then scoop up stuff.

You might be able to do something subtle with a tilted barge, dragging the (legs-off)) stage onto rollers and maybe moving your pulling engine to control center of mass. But would definitely need to be slowly and definitely only in sheltered waters.

A straight (multi-)crane op is far more likely.

Semmel · « **Reply #527 on:** 12/07/2018 03:05 pm »

Quote from: ValmirGP on 12/07/2018 02:54 pm

Quote from: Semmel on 12/07/2018 02:26 pm
A note to our newer members. In the past that webcam operator was very unhappy with us space fans. I suggest to NOT post any screen shots from their cam (they actually forbid it and your posts will be deleted if you do post images) and refrain from linking to them. We used to reference to them as the "web cam that shall not be named".

PS: Welcome to the forum

Good to finally know the history behind this. I'm not so knew to the forum and have seen mentions to this web cam from time to time and was curious about the "shall not be named" thing, but not so much so as to take the time to ask.

Go back to the thread of the first booster recovery at sea and you find it in all its glory. Was some messy business and some people, not connected to this forum, got overexcited and pulled some (illegal) content grabbing. Thus bypassing the advertisement on their web page. This lead to the operator getting _very_ annoyed with space geeks in general and legal consequences were named. I dont remember any actual repercussions though. We try to stay away from them if possible.

I would love to grab my dinner at Fishlips today. Too bad I live a few thousand km away..

Rocket Science · « **Reply #528 on:** 12/07/2018 03:11 pm »

Quote from: Semmel on 12/07/2018 03:05 pm

Quote from: ValmirGP on 12/07/2018 02:54 pm
Quote from: Semmel on 12/07/2018 02:26 pm
A note to our newer members. In the past that webcam operator was very unhappy with us space fans. I suggest to NOT post any screen shots from their cam (they actually forbid it and your posts will be deleted if you do post images) and refrain from linking to them. We used to reference to them as the "web cam that shall not be named".

PS: Welcome to the forum

Good to finally know the history behind this. I'm not so knew to the forum and have seen mentions to this web cam from time to time and was curious about the "shall not be named" thing, but not so much so as to take the time to ask.

Go back to the thread of the first booster recovery at sea and you find it in all its glory. Was some messy business and some people, not connected to this forum, got overexcited and pulled some (illegal) content grabbing. Thus bypassing the advertisement on their web page. This lead to the operator getting _very_ annoyed with space geeks in general and legal consequences were named. I dont remember any actual repercussions though. We try to stay away from them if possible.

I would love to grab my dinner at Fishlips today. Too bad I live a few thousand km away..

Perhaps they deliver...

IntoTheVoid · « **Reply #529 on:** 12/07/2018 03:16 pm »

Quote from: Rocket Science on 12/07/2018 03:11 pm

Quote from: Semmel on 12/07/2018 03:05 pm
Quote from: ValmirGP on 12/07/2018 02:54 pm
Quote from: Semmel on 12/07/2018 02:26 pm
A note to our newer members. In the past that webcam operator was very unhappy with us space fans. I suggest to NOT post any screen shots from their cam (they actually forbid it and your posts will be deleted if you do post images) and refrain from linking to them. We used to reference to them as the "web cam that shall not be named".

PS: Welcome to the forum

Good to finally know the history behind this. I'm not so knew to the forum and have seen mentions to this web cam from time to time and was curious about the "shall not be named" thing, but not so much so as to take the time to ask.

Go back to the thread of the first booster recovery at sea and you find it in all its glory. Was some messy business and some people, not connected to this forum, got overexcited and pulled some (illegal) content grabbing. Thus bypassing the advertisement on their web page. This lead to the operator getting _very_ annoyed with space geeks in general and legal consequences were named. I dont remember any actual repercussions though. We try to stay away from them if possible.

I would love to grab my dinner at Fishlips today. Too bad I live a few thousand km away..
Perhaps they deliver...

Perhaps... But, they've out-sourced the delivery of the view, and the issues are with their chosen contractor.

Rocket Science · « **Reply #530 on:** 12/07/2018 03:22 pm »

Some construction barge might be mucking-up things...

sghill · « **Reply #531 on:** 12/07/2018 03:30 pm »

Harbormaster: "Inbound high-priority tug and tow. Stay out of the channel."

kevinof · « **Reply #532 on:** 12/07/2018 03:35 pm »

I see The Verge has a piece on this launch. More about the affordability of the loss than the actual loss itself.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/7/18129539/spacex-falcon-9-rocket-water-landing-valuation-investors

pb2000 · « **Reply #533 on:** 12/07/2018 03:38 pm »

https://twitter.com/Cygnusx112/status/1071081139299905537

Edit: The interstage did indeed get busted up pretty bad.

cartman · « **Reply #534 on:** 12/07/2018 03:41 pm »

How hard would it be to try to estimate the empty weight of the stage from these photos?

RoboGoofers · « **Reply #535 on:** 12/07/2018 03:47 pm »

Quote from: cartman on 12/07/2018 03:41 pm

How hard would it be to try to estimate the empty weight of the stage from these photos?

a very simple displacement calculator; will give a bad estimate:
http://www.blueheronwings.com/bh/comps/bdesign.html

~18 metric tons?

joncz · « **Reply #536 on:** 12/07/2018 03:50 pm »

😂

There's a *rocket* being towed into port and the highlight of one guy's day on the radio chatter was landing eleven mackerel.

pb2000 · « **Reply #537 on:** 12/07/2018 03:54 pm »

I guess the lifting cap is out of the question on this one... how the heck are they gonna get it on the stand?

joncz · « **Reply #538 on:** 12/07/2018 03:59 pm »

Quote from: pb2000 on 12/07/2018 03:54 pm

I guess the lifting cap is out of the question on this one... how the heck are they gonna get it on the stand?

There was mention on the radio of a pair of cranes. Sounds like they'll sling it out, and I guess remove the legs with another crane and cherry-picker, then place it directly on the trailer.

vanoord · « **Reply #539 on:** 12/07/2018 04:02 pm »

Lift it with two cranes and keep it horizontal would be my guess - but that would need the fourth leg either removed already or remove it while the booster is hanging.

Then
- put the stage down horizontally to get the remaining legs off and then lift it onto the transporter
or
- remove the other legs while it's hanging from the crane and then put it on the transporter
or
- put it on the transport and the remove the other three legs (which may be impossible depending how the attachment on the transporter works)

Arguably they could sling from the grid fins (if all four are still there) but unless they know the fins can take the weight, that could be risky.

It would also be possible to attach ropes to the octaweb, run the ropes to a single point above the top of the stage and then sling round the stage under the grid fines to anchor the ropes against the side of the booster - I've seen boat masts lifted that way, but I'm not sure I'd like to try it with a rocket booster!