Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-16 (Dragon SpX-16) : December 5, 2018 - DISCUSSION  (Read 255673 times)

Offline mlindner

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Conservation of angular momentum, guys. Jim's right, the legs stopped the roll. Think about the axis of rotation here in relation to the force of the engine, how could the engine possible stop the roll?

There is not a single axis of rotation, as I've stated several times. The engine helps to null those other axis of rotations. The rocket is also constantly transferring energy into those axes of rotation.
LEO is the ocean, not an island (let alone a continent). We create cruise liners to ride the oceans, not artificial islands in the middle of them. We need a physical place, which has physical resources, to make our future out there.

Offline Herb Schaltegger

Yep, I see it too. I stand corrected. Fortunately my hat is very tasty.  ;D

Good on you.

(Others - too many  should take finding out they're wrong with as much grace and good humor).
« Last Edit: 12/06/2018 11:23 pm by Herb Schaltegger »
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Offline stcks

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Yep, I see it too. I stand corrected. Fortunately my hat is very tasty.  ;D

 ;D I only wish you had taken me up on my wager  :P

Offline Joffan

I'm not saying that the interstage could be regarded as a LEGO element, but it's probably a close approach to one, in terms of plugging in a replacement. How much of a stage needs to refly before it's a reflight?

Getting into Grandfather's axe/Ship of Theseus territory...
Getting through max-Q for humanity becoming fully spacefaring

Offline envy887

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I'm not saying that the interstage could be regarded as a LEGO element, but it's probably a close approach to one, in terms of plugging in a replacement. How much of a stage needs to refly before it's a reflight?

Getting into Grandfather's axe/Ship of Theseus territory...

Just the tail number...

But I can't see them taking apart the tanks, which are welded together. If the tanks fly again, it's a reflight.
« Last Edit: 12/06/2018 11:57 pm by envy887 »

Offline Lars-J

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I'm not saying that the interstage could be regarded as a LEGO element, but it's probably a close approach to one, in terms of plugging in a replacement. How much of a stage needs to refly before it's a reflight?

Getting into Grandfather's axe/Ship of Theseus territory...

Just the tail number...

But I can't see them taking apart the tanks, which are welded together. If the tanks fly again, it's a reflight.

The longer it sits in the ocean, the less likely it is that it (the major structure) will fly again. But... They can recover the Titanium grid fins now, and that will save some $$$.

Offline Chris_Pi

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I'm not saying that the interstage could be regarded as a LEGO element, but it's probably a close approach to one, in terms of plugging in a replacement. How much of a stage needs to refly before it's a reflight?

Getting into Grandfather's axe/Ship of Theseus territory...

Rivet the existing serial number plate onto a new thrust structure and call it good...  :)

Definitely looks like the interstage is toast. All the broken-up stuff is well above the gridfin attachment, So that's probably still there along with the misbehaving hydraulic pump.

What I'm wondering is did the top ring on the O2 tank it bolts on to deform any? If it's not round the tank's probably scrap, and that could be it for the rocket regardless of saltwater damage. But The interstage might be quite weak in side-loads like those that probably happened when it slapped the surface. So the tank could be fine.

Offline DigitalMan

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Discussions with GoQuest and I don't know who:   A couple guys talking about the plan to come back and be prepared around 6 - 6:30am, but one of them says it could wind up being 11am before they get to attempt bringing it in based on morning traffic.

Offline Lee Jay

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It seems to me the interstage would have impacted the ocean with the most force since it is at the top.

Wouldn't the interstage also suffer the most damage from the slap into the water because it's not pressurized, and the tanks are?

Offline Lee Jay

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This seems correct to me, save for the fact that the center engine does contribute substantially by slowing the decent and therefore reduces the aerodynamic torque being applied by the wayward grid fins, thus allowing the relatively weak cold gas thrusters to do their jobs.

It also slows the spin by removing any spin energy that is transferred into spins about other axes. The rocket does not want to spin along the axis that runs the length of the booster so it will start to turn into a flat spin over time. These other spins the rocket can counteract and remove.

In case anyone doubts the above, I just want to remind everyone of this coolest-of-all demos of the intermediate axis theorem:


Offline spacenut

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Is the Dragon capsule ok and when will it berth with the ISS? 

Offline ellindsey

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Is the Dragon capsule ok and when will it berth with the ISS?
What, that boring cargo shipment of moldy mouse food?  Nobody cares about that, all the drama is about the booster landing.

Yeah, it's doing fine.  Solar panels deployed and everything.

Offline MattBaker

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NASA TV coverage is on Saturday from 04:30 AM ET for the rendevous and capture scheduled for ~6 Eastern and 7:30 AM ET for the berthing. +5 for UTC and London, +6 for Paris, Berlin, Rome, -3 for the West Coast if you feel like getting up at 1 AM to watch a spacecraft edge ever so slightly closer for one and a half hours.

-Someone who keeps a notepad file of space stuff going on in the next week so he can plan early to get up at 1 AM and watch a spacecraft edge ever so slightly closer for one and a half hours

Offline OxCartMark

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Is the Dragon capsule ok and when will it berth with the ISS?

Yea, but its more interesting to watch the sea dragon.
Actulus Ferociter!

Offline OxCartMark

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Hypothetical. Let's say next time that a tanker gets sent out to flood the RP-1 tank with deionized water. The stage rights itself, and sinks much (most?) of the way below water. Stresses due to wave action should be reduced, and workers on the surface might have a much easier time fixing the end cap to allow crane lift right from the drink and back onto OCISLY avoiding the issue of towing altogether.

Feasible? Or am I talking about my butt more than I already realize? I'm fully aware that those people out there, with their 24 hours of experience, are now the worlds foremost experts on towing a floating rocket stage that was never intended to be towed or floated.

Or how about this - Put RP-1 in the RP-1 tank.  The stage rights itself and sinks much (most?) of the way below the water.  Broken hydraulic pump is now at the top out of the water, fix it. Then put in Lox, helium, TEA/B, Nitrogen.  Light a fire at the bottom of it and send it back to LZ-1.
Actulus Ferociter!

Offline Roy_H

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So, this shows the rocket under tow. Looks like north instead of south?
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Offline Lars-J

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So, this shows the rocket under tow. Looks like north instead of south?

At that point I believe it was just anchored in place. What looks like movement is likely the current heading south.

Offline kevinof

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Far as I know the current there is northbound. Either way I think it's just being held in place and not actively towing.

So, this shows the rocket under tow. Looks like north instead of south?

At that point I believe it was just anchored in place. What looks like movement is likely the current heading south.

Offline woods170

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So, this shows the rocket under tow. Looks like north instead of south?

At that point I believe it was just anchored in place. What looks like movement is likely the current heading south.

Correct. At the time that footage was shot the booster was anchored in place. It was not being towed.

Offline Lars-J

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So, this shows the rocket under tow. Looks like north instead of south?

At that point I believe it was just anchored in place. What looks like movement is likely the current heading south.
Far as I know the current there is northbound. Either way I think it's just being held in place and not actively towing.

No, it landed off-shore the landing pad, and drifted south towards Port Canaveral where it was at that point.

Tags: CRS-16 
 

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