Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-16 (Dragon SpX-16) : December 5, 2018 - DISCUSSION (Read 255685 times)

Lars-J · « **Reply #280 on:** 12/05/2018 08:20 pm »

Quote from: Hauerg on 12/05/2018 08:18 pm

Quote from: bdub217 on 12/05/2018 05:45 pm
At what point when you don't have complete control of your rocket flying back toward land does range safety kick in? While i'm sure they are happy they got their rocket back (albeit a little wet) I expect we will need to be asking some questions about whether the automated flight termination system worked as it was designed - and if it did - who didn't trigger a manual termination and why not? Dangerous as hell.
No.
All worked as planned.
No need to autodestruct when you are physically not able to reach land.

... and still within the keep-out area cleared by the range.

Johnnyhinbos · « **Reply #281 on:** 12/05/2018 08:25 pm »

Coast Guard of Port Canaveral just issued a Securite call re a hazard to navigation off Port Canaveral. Homm... wonder what that is. (Couldn't tell because the details of the call are given on VHF channel 22A)

As a boater, I don't ever recall hearing a Securite for a rocket laying in the water...

vanoord · « **Reply #282 on:** 12/05/2018 08:26 pm »

Quote from: brejol on 12/05/2018 07:26 pm

Any chance of a successful landing had the ditch order not been given? Landing looks close to nominal. Yes, on the the Ocean but still.....

The stage needs the grid fins to orientate it and give it lift as it falls, which carries it towards the landing pad.

With the fins inoperative, the stage doesn't have the lift and falls short of the landing pad by default.

Presumably the software is such that if the stage loses fin control, it re-targets to soft land in the ocean with a normal landing burn.

Why? Well, probably better than it fighting all the way down trying to get where it should be; and quite possibly because someone has thought this through and realised that burning up all propellants before hitting the water is a good idea from a pollution point of view.

As far as any specific intention in the programming to try and recover the core, the jury's out - but even if it experienced a RUD when it topped, that's would make finding four very expensive grid fins a whole lot easier.

Whether or not floating the stage in to Port Canaveral is a go-er is something the next 24 hours will show

Johnnyhinbos · « **Reply #283 on:** 12/05/2018 08:27 pm »

Eagle is currently hailing GoQuest...

Devlin98 · « **Reply #284 on:** 12/05/2018 08:33 pm »

Eagle and Go Quest went to Channel 10.

Orbiter · « **Reply #285 on:** 12/05/2018 08:34 pm »

I am curious to see how exactly they'll approach bringing a rocket back into port that didn't land on an ASDS. Why not just fish it out, put it on OCISLY, and then take it back to port that way?

envy887 · « **Reply #286 on:** 12/05/2018 08:36 pm »

This would hardly be the first time a rocket was floated into Port Canaveral alongside a ship.

Johnnyhinbos · « **Reply #287 on:** 12/05/2018 08:36 pm »

Quote from: Johnnyhinbos on 12/05/2018 08:27 pm

Eagle is currently hailing GoQuest...

And GoQuest responded and they switched from CH 16 to CH 10, which I can't monitor in Boston! Anyone down there with a VHF?

Oooh! So they have a line on it by the "nozzles" and need someone to get a photo to prove they got it first (salvage rights). Also mentioned that they have a sea anchor if needed.

mn · « **Reply #288 on:** 12/05/2018 08:37 pm »

Quote from: Orbiter on 12/05/2018 08:34 pm

I am curious to see how exactly they'll approach bringing a rocket back into port that didn't land on an ASDS. Why not just fish it out, put it on OCISLY, and then take it back to port that way?

And how exactly would you 'just' fish it out?

Michel Van · « **Reply #289 on:** 12/05/2018 08:37 pm »

i think that's goes into History as "The Day SpaceX went Kerbal..."

kirghizstan · « **Reply #290 on:** 12/05/2018 08:40 pm »

Quote from: mn on 12/05/2018 08:37 pm

Quote from: Orbiter on 12/05/2018 08:34 pm
I am curious to see how exactly they'll approach bringing a rocket back into port that didn't land on an ASDS. Why not just fish it out, put it on OCISLY, and then take it back to port that way?

And how exactly would you 'just' fish it out?

Put the crane on OCISLY

That is partially serious, but understand stability issues associated with sea state and that OCISLY's deck might not be able to handle the load

Orbiter · « **Reply #291 on:** 12/05/2018 08:41 pm »

Quote from: mn on 12/05/2018 08:37 pm

Quote from: Orbiter on 12/05/2018 08:34 pm
I am curious to see how exactly they'll approach bringing a rocket back into port that didn't land on an ASDS. Why not just fish it out, put it on OCISLY, and then take it back to port that way?

And how exactly would you 'just' fish it out?

Carefully

ellindsey · « **Reply #292 on:** 12/05/2018 08:42 pm »

Quote from: Orbiter on 12/05/2018 08:34 pm

I am curious to see how exactly they'll approach bringing a rocket back into port that didn't land on an ASDS. Why not just fish it out, put it on OCISLY, and then take it back to port that way?

Lifting the stage usually requires using a crane to attach a lifting fixture to the top of the rocket while it's vertical, then lifting the entire rocket with the crane.

Attaching the lifting fixture to the top of the rocket while the rocket is sideways bobbing in the water will be a challenge, and they don't have a crane handy that they can float out to sea to lift it with.

They'll probably have to kluge some kind of attachment to the rocket structure and then tow it to somewhere where they can get a crane to lift it out of the water. I doubt the rocket will be reusable after this process.

vanoord · « **Reply #293 on:** 12/05/2018 08:44 pm »

The issue is going to be attaching the lifting cap (or similar) to the top of the stage.

Lifting it upside down shouldn't be a problem as there are good attachment points on the octaweb. But that's no use for getting it the right way up again to get the legs off.

With a bit of foresight, there should be a contingency plan for just this scenario - which should be well in progress by now.

flyright · « **Reply #294 on:** 12/05/2018 08:50 pm »

Quote from: envy887 on 12/05/2018 08:36 pm

This would hardly be the first time a rocket was floated into Port Canaveral alongside a ship.

Good point!

I've been wondering what the port officials reaction might be to a rocket being towed into the port.
Good that there are many prievious examples (though they were solids instead of liquids).

Doesitfloat · « **Reply #295 on:** 12/05/2018 08:57 pm »

Just get the stage transportation truck and dollies. Tow the rocket to a boat launch. Treat it like a bass boat.

Oersted · « **Reply #296 on:** 12/05/2018 08:57 pm »

Quote from: Johnnyhinbos on 12/05/2018 08:39 pm

Monitoring Port Canaveral marine radio.

Just heard "they have a line on it by the "nozzles" and need someone to get a photo to prove they got it first."

(salvage rights). Also mentioned that they have a sea anchor if needed.

Did somebody else than SpaceX get to the rocket first!?

CJ · « **Reply #297 on:** 12/05/2018 09:03 pm »

Regarding adding a second pump and lines vs. making the present one more robust; for F9 operation, I agree with those above who say making the single pump more robust is better. However, there's probably more than F9 at play here; there's BFR to consider. IMHO, they might be going redundant for that (especially BFS) so it'd make sense to go that route now.

IMHO, the fact the F9 managed to survive supersonic loss of control and then touch down and end up intact is utterly astounding.

Johnnyhinbos · « **Reply #298 on:** 12/05/2018 09:06 pm »

Quote from: Oersted on 12/05/2018 08:57 pm

Quote from: Johnnyhinbos on 12/05/2018 08:39 pm
Monitoring Port Canaveral marine radio.

Just heard "they have a line on it by the "nozzles" and need someone to get a photo to prove they got it first."

(salvage rights). Also mentioned that they have a sea anchor if needed.

Did somebody else than SpaceX get to the rocket first!?

Don't think so - I believe it's more of a formality in case someone claims they got to it first (somehow).

Boy though, wouldn't that be something if someone else claims salvage rights...

whitelancer64 · « **Reply #299 on:** 12/05/2018 09:10 pm »

You can't claim salvage rights on something that hasn't been officially abandoned at sea (this is the same reason that Spain keeps claiming treasure from Spanish wrecks that are centuries old). I 100% guarantee this booster has not been abandoned by SpaceX.