Author Topic: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?  (Read 31378 times)

Offline Proponent

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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #140 on: 10/27/2018 03:06 pm »
Space has always been militarized. Did anyone honestly think that those 9 reference orbits and what we place there, would remain uncontested? And while it's in no one's interest to initiate a Kessler Syndrome, that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of non-explosive ways to either disrupt, take over or destroy critical orbiting assets. We need new offensive and defensive doctrines, strategies and acquisitions.

I don't particularly disagree with that, but it's irrelevant, because nobody is arguing that the US doesn't need military capability in space.  The only question is what is the best bureaucratic structure for providing that capability.

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To that end and to the great many things we know not even the questions to ask yet, I think a Space Force, with it's own leadership, philosophy, culture, budget, acquisition, training, etc.. is more than warranted. It's time.

As we've seen with the USAF, creation of an independent force doesn't guarantee that fundamental problems will be fixed.

Can anybody point me to an analysis that compares the options of:

* Fixing the USAF's space side;
* Asking the Army or the Navy if it could take over the USAF's space functions;
* Creating a Space Corps within the USAF; and
* Creating a Space Force.

For that matter, I'd be interested in a retrospective analysis of the creation of the USAF: was it actually a good idea.

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Offline bad_astra

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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #142 on: 11/05/2018 05:02 pm »
it's really just a matter of whether existing assets and doctrine are organized as they should be or would benefit from being branched into their own division. Obviously there will continue to be a lot of discussion on whether the USAF was formed too late or not, but there are other parallels among the uniformed services such as the creation of NOAA. The services that were combined into forming NOAA probably did so at around the right time.

Did the USCG need to be formed from the RCS, Lighthouse Service and Lifeboat service earlier or was it just a natural progression at the right time?

The downside is that you can't put a side of fries on your plate without it being politically divisive anymore, and anything like this will become emotional and not logical.
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Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #143 on: 11/07/2018 02:19 pm »
<snip>
The downside is that you can't put a side of fries on your plate without it being politically divisive anymore, and anything like this will become emotional and not logical.
"Freedom fries" :)
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Offline vulture4

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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #144 on: 11/11/2018 04:23 pm »
The US Space Command was created in 1985, was inexplicably dissolved in 2004, and is currently being re-established. The fundamental elements of the DOD are not the service branches, but the unified commands, which combine personnel from all the services. So the problem has already been resolved, by going back to the solution we already had but forgot about.

Offline yg1968

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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #145 on: 12/18/2018 11:53 pm »
VP Pence at KSC on the establishment of a US Space Command and of a US Space Force:

« Last Edit: 12/18/2018 11:59 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #146 on: 12/18/2018 11:59 pm »

Online RDoc

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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #147 on: 01/31/2019 03:46 pm »
It absolutely astounds me that people, particularly people interested in space, are discussing a Space Force which would greatly increase the risk of a very large increase in orbital debris in near Earth space. The single Chinese anti-satellite test is estimated to have created about 1/6 of the trackable debris in space, and a lot of it will be up there for some time.

If the US goes down the path of stationing weapons systems in space, it's certain that other nations will as well. Yet, space based weapons won't make a decisive difference in a major state war and are very easy to counter so would be certain targets, even in a non-nuclear confrontation. Even a modest, non-nuclear, orbital exchange would probably close out a lot of very useful orbits for decades if not centuries. We could create our own no-go belt, effectively a near Earth Van Allen belt.

Space interest organizations and individuals should be publicizing the shortsightedness of these ideas and making politicians and citizens aware of the consequences of these proposals.

Offline Elvis in Space

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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #148 on: 01/31/2019 04:25 pm »
It absolutely astounds me that people, particularly people interested in space, are discussing a Space Force which would greatly increase the risk of a very large increase in orbital debris in near Earth space. The single Chinese anti-satellite test is estimated to have created about 1/6 of the trackable debris in space, and a lot of it will be up there for some time.

If the US goes down the path of stationing weapons systems in space, it's certain that other nations will as well. Yet, space based weapons won't make a decisive difference in a major state war and are very easy to counter so would be certain targets, even in a non-nuclear confrontation. Even a modest, non-nuclear, orbital exchange would probably close out a lot of very useful orbits for decades if not centuries. We could create our own no-go belt, effectively a near Earth Van Allen belt.

Space interest organizations and individuals should be publicizing the shortsightedness of these ideas and making politicians and citizens aware of the consequences of these proposals.


Not sure how you come by such certain information but right now the "Space Force" is more about making certain existing space assets have a voice in the Pentagon bureaucracy. Nobody has spoken of weapons in space but the existing communications and intel infrastructure there represents vital assets. They make a huge difference in maintaining the peace every day and would be badly missed in any conflict.
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Online Lar

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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #149 on: 01/31/2019 04:31 pm »
(mod) The last post has some things that are over the line for this site. We don't discuss general politics. We don't discuss military topics. So please don't reply.
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Online RDoc

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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #150 on: 01/31/2019 04:58 pm »
(mod) The last post has some things that are over the line for this site. We don't discuss general politics. We don't discuss military topics. So please don't reply.
If we don't discuss military topics, then lock this thread. If you take a look at the thread title, it's explicitly about Militarizing Space.

Online Lar

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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #151 on: 02/01/2019 11:58 am »
(mod) The last post has some things that are over the line for this site. We don't discuss general politics. We don't discuss military topics. So please don't reply.
If we don't discuss military topics, then lock this thread. If you take a look at the thread title, it's explicitly about Militarizing Space.
I do believe you're arguing with a mod. Don't do that. Use "report to mod" on the mod's post to ask for review if you disagree, rather than arguing publicly. Arguing publicly is noise. We are high signal to noise here, or try to be.

I like Elvis' response to your post. Rather than scaremongering, as you were, it's factual, it addresses your concerns and it doesn't cross the line to talk about specific weapons systems or geopolitical context. Everyone can use it as a guide, perhaps, to do a better job of staying within the lines going forward and there won't be any need to lock the thread.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Online docmordrid

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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #152 on: 02/13/2019 02:48 am »
Former XCOR Director and now academic reports that the daddy of Ares 1 and Space Force proponent Mike Griffin may be appointed SecDef,

Stephen Fleming  @StephenFleming
Hearing (from someone in a position to know) that Michael Griffin is tipped to be the next Secretary of Defense.

https://twitter.com/StephenFleming/status/1095495703248351233
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Online Markstark

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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #153 on: 02/13/2019 02:57 am »
That’s would be a heck of a promotion. I had a feeling that they had him in mind to lead the Space Force. Never even considered he’d be in the running to replace Mattis

Offline woods170

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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #154 on: 02/13/2019 06:26 am »
Former XCOR Director and now academic reports that the daddy of Ares 1 and Space Force proponent Mike Griffin may be appointed SecDef,

Stephen Fleming  @StephenFleming
Hearing (from someone in a position to know) that Michael Griffin is tipped to be the next Secretary of Defense.

https://twitter.com/StephenFleming/status/1095495703248351233

Sh*t. There goes the neighbourhood...

(Probably not worth mentioning that I really don't like Griffin)

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #155 on: 02/18/2019 05:09 am »
Re: Space Force ramifications of the possible nomination of Dr. Michael Griffin as Secretary of Defense.

A brief browser search turns up several recent references back to this (apparent) root PJ Media blog post by David Goldman, dated last December 23:
Michael Griffin for Secretary of Defense
All the other pertinent references were referring back to the blog above.

IDK, but could this be a policy-wonk positive-feedback loop?  Signifying nothing?

(Side comment: I'd much rather be TAPPED for a promotion than TIPPED.) 8)
« Last Edit: 02/18/2019 05:13 am by zubenelgenubi »
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Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #156 on: 02/19/2019 01:44 am »
https://twitter.com/spcplcyonline/status/1097687559348645888

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Offline yg1968

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« Last Edit: 02/19/2019 11:19 pm by yg1968 »

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