Author Topic: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?  (Read 21717 times)

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8654
  • Australia
  • Liked: 3586
  • Likes Given: 843
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #60 on: 06/25/2018 09:53 PM »
Perhaps all we need is the expansion of the Air Force Space Command, created in 1982...

The army isn't going to give up their space assets and operations to the Air Force. Only an executive order to create a new branch of the military will do that. Same with NRO. Same with the dozen other branches of military and intel.
I hear those things are awfully loud. It glides as softly as a cloud. What's it called? Monowhale!

Offline spacenut

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2405
  • East Alabama
  • Liked: 405
  • Likes Given: 236
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #61 on: 06/26/2018 12:57 AM »
When they created the Air Force after WWII, the Army had to give up it's planes.  The Navy with the air craft carriers could keep theirs.  A Space Force, if created, will probably handle ICBM's and space based assets like satellites, not necessary to actually "weaponize" space.  It would evolve over time as we go out into space. 

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8873
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 2800
  • Likes Given: 7358
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #62 on: 06/26/2018 02:01 AM »
Perhaps all we need is the expansion of the Air Force Space Command, created in 1982...

The army isn't going to give up their space assets and operations to the Air Force. Only an executive order to create a new branch of the military will do that. Same with NRO. Same with the dozen other branches of military and intel.
My understanding is that a new force can not be created by an an Executive Order only by an act of Congress...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator, Vintage auto racer

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8654
  • Australia
  • Liked: 3586
  • Likes Given: 843
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #63 on: 06/26/2018 02:08 AM »
My understanding is that a new force can not be created by an an Executive Order only by an act of Congress...

Yes, thanks for the correction.
I hear those things are awfully loud. It glides as softly as a cloud. What's it called? Monowhale!

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11378
  • Liked: 2893
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #64 on: 06/27/2018 11:48 AM »

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8873
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 2800
  • Likes Given: 7358
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #65 on: 06/27/2018 02:32 PM »
Thanks for posting the above photo but I'm sorry to say that I have work clothes that I use around the house for painting that look a lot like that... ???
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator, Vintage auto racer

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11378
  • Liked: 2893
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #66 on: 06/27/2018 05:07 PM »
Thanks for posting the above photo but I'm sorry to say that I have work clothes that I use around the house for painting that look a lot like that... ???

You should enlist in the Space Force!

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8873
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 2800
  • Likes Given: 7358
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #67 on: 06/27/2018 08:02 PM »
Thanks for posting the above photo but I'm sorry to say that I have work clothes that I use around the house for painting that look a lot like that... ???

You should enlist in the Space Force!
Too old... :(
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator, Vintage auto racer

Offline zubenelgenubi

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1738
  • Arc to Arcturus, then Spike to Spica
  • Commonwealth of Virginia
  • Liked: 446
  • Likes Given: 1374
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #68 on: 06/27/2018 08:20 PM »
A lesser question among the greater ones.

Re: US Space Force uniform
What color would the uniform be?

Example: USAF "blue suit"

EDIT/ADD: "Purple suit" is already spoken for; I understand it represents the concept of US joint/combined forces.
« Last Edit: 06/30/2018 02:10 AM by zubenelgenubi »
Support your local planetarium!

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8873
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 2800
  • Likes Given: 7358
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #69 on: 06/27/2018 11:39 PM »
A lesser question among the greater ones.

Re: US Space Force uniform
What color would the uniform be?

Example: USAF "blue suit"
The "blackness"of space?
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator, Vintage auto racer

Offline zubenelgenubi

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1738
  • Arc to Arcturus, then Spike to Spica
  • Commonwealth of Virginia
  • Liked: 446
  • Likes Given: 1374
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #70 on: 06/30/2018 02:27 AM »
A lesser question among the greater ones.

Re: US Space Force uniform
What color would the uniform be?

Example: USAF "blue suit"
The "blackness" of space?

Hmm...
Only if a "black suit" can somehow be sufficiently distanced from the SS uniform.
Support your local planetarium!

Online docmordrid

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4991
  • Michigan
  • Liked: 2109
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #71 on: 07/03/2018 07:28 AM »
Space was effectively militarized in the 1960's. Anyone else remember Salyut 3 and its onboard cannon?

Blue-grey uniform, similar to that used on Enterprise.
« Last Edit: 07/03/2018 07:32 AM by docmordrid »
DM

Offline vulture4

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1001
  • Liked: 309
  • Likes Given: 90
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #72 on: 07/05/2018 01:23 PM »
When they created the Air Force after WWII, the Army had to give up it's planes.  The Navy with the air craft carriers could keep theirs.  A Space Force, if created, will probably handle ICBM's and space based assets like satellites, not necessary to actually "weaponize" space.  It would evolve over time as we go out into space.

Yet today the service with the most pilots is the Army. ICBMs are under Strategic Command, Space Command handles launch vehicles (not missiles), spacecraft, and DOD support for NASA. Putting the strategic nuclear deterrent under anything other than a combat command seems unlikely as the whle organizational structure and focus of Space Command is different.

The basic problem here is that the separtion of the services is a tradition from the Colonial era that doesn't serve any obvious purpose beyond the training and administrative levels. Since WWII the paradigm for the US military has been unification rather than division. Stratcom for example has personnel from all the services and has been commanded by officers from USAF, Navy, and Marines. 

Creating a new service would be extremely expensive and serve no practical purpose. It seems like a stunt to generate publicity and the appearance of patriotism rather than a well considered strategic or military policy decision.
« Last Edit: 07/05/2018 01:26 PM by vulture4 »

Offline mike robel

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2173
  • Merritt Island, FL
  • Liked: 229
  • Likes Given: 42
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #73 on: 07/05/2018 01:38 PM »
When they created the Air Force after WWII, the Army had to give up it's planes.  The Navy with the air craft carriers could keep theirs.  A Space Force, if created, will probably handle ICBM's and space based assets like satellites, not necessary to actually "weaponize" space.  It would evolve over time as we go out into space.

Yet today the service with the most pilots is the Army. ICBMs are under Strategic Command, Space Command handles launch vehicles (not missiles), spacecraft, and DOD support for NASA. Putting the strategic nuclear deterrent under anything other than a combat command seems unlikely as the whle organizational structure and focus of Space Command is different.

The basic problem here is that the separtion of the services is a tradition from the Colonial era that doesn't serve any obvious purpose beyond the training and administrative levels. Since WWII the paradigm for the US military has been unification rather than division. Stratcom for example has personnel from all the services and has been commanded by officers from USAF, Navy, and Marines. 

Creating a new service would be extremely expensive and serve no practical purpose. It seems like a stunt to generate publicity and the appearance of patriotism rather than a well considered strategic or military policy decision.

Unification merely meant taking Airplanes away from the Army, making the Army dependent upon the Air Force for battlefield support.  Were we to truly "unify" the Marine Divisions would be in the Army, the Marine Air Wings and Naval Carrier Wings would be in the Air Force, and we would lose even more effectiveness due to politics and budget battles, as shown pretty much in Great Britain and Canada.

Even within the Army, there is the tendency to "unifying" units by stripping away and consolidating sub-units.  For example, Air Defense Platoons were removed from maneuver battalions and placed in air defense batteries in a seperate air defense battalion.  Company Maintenance sections were concentrated at battalion into the battalion maintenance platoon, and then into a seperate company in a Brigade Support Battalion.  Fire Support Personnel are in the artillery battalion instead of having them embedded in companies, battalions, and brigades (as opposed to the guns).

But when you go to the field, all these things are attached or placed in direct support and frequently end up at the company where they train little and do not know the company commander or his style/tactics.

The same effect will happen should Congress decide to form a Space Force only at the strategic level.  Better to leave things as they are.

Offline vulture4

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1001
  • Liked: 309
  • Likes Given: 90
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #74 on: 07/05/2018 02:27 PM »
"Were we to truly "unify" the Marine Divisions would be in the Army"

As prominent a leader as Dwight Eisenhower advocated that, but even he could not overcome tradition. But today it is less relevant as elements from the Marines and all other services are assigned to unified combatent commands for operational deployments.

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8873
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 2800
  • Likes Given: 7358
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #75 on: 07/05/2018 02:57 PM »
A lesser question among the greater ones.

Re: US Space Force uniform
What color would the uniform be?

Example: USAF "blue suit"
The "blackness" of space?

Hmm...
Only if a "black suit" can somehow be sufficiently distanced from the SS uniform.
Something like SAC in black with a white or "stars and nebula" themed scarf perhaps?
https://www.usafpolice.org/hq-sac.html
« Last Edit: 07/05/2018 03:20 PM by Rocket Science »
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator, Vintage auto racer

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6562
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 6265
  • Likes Given: 1889
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #76 on: 08/08/2018 10:12 PM »
Quote
An administration official confirms to SpacePolicyOnline.com that the Vice President will, indeed, deliver remarks at the Pentagon tomorrow (August 9), regarding creation of a Space Force.

https://twitter.com/spcplcyonline/status/1027221729935015937

Edit to add:

Quote
That administration official also confirms that the Pence speech at the Pentagon tomorrow will be webcast. His remarks begin at 11:15 am ET.
I'll tweet the link when I get it.  Wouldn't be surprised if it's on whitehouse.gov/live.

https://twitter.com/spcplcyonline/status/1027235911250194432
« Last Edit: 08/08/2018 10:17 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Alpha Control

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1193
  • Washington, DC
  • Liked: 133
  • Likes Given: 74
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #77 on: 08/09/2018 04:45 PM »
Space was effectively militarized in the 1960's. Anyone else remember Salyut 3 and its onboard cannon?

Blue-grey uniform, similar to that used on Enterprise.

I've always been partial to this uniform: :)

Space launches attended:
Antares/Cygnus ORB-D1 Wallops Island, VA Sept 2013 | STS-123 KSC, FL March 2008 | SpaceShipOne Mojave, CA June 2004

Online docmordrid

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4991
  • Michigan
  • Liked: 2109
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #78 on: 08/09/2018 04:52 PM »
VP Pence and SecDef Gen. Mattis statement at the Pentagon re: Space Force, Space Command, and Space Development Agency.

Starts at 25:00

DM

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8873
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 2800
  • Likes Given: 7358
Re: US Space Force - US to Militarise Space?
« Reply #79 on: 08/09/2018 06:26 PM »
A shiny object meant to distract and energize the base... Nothing more...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator, Vintage auto racer

Tags: