SpinLaunch: General Company and Development Updates and Discussions

[Bob Shaw]

Another issue with a SpinLaunch ABM system is the difficulty in changing aiming point once it has begun to spin - the spinning mass will want not to move. The payload could obviously do some maneuvering, but…

[su27k]

There's always a tendency, when something doesn't seem to make sense, to assume it's the military behind it somehow. Actually dumb ideas with sufficiently charismatic people behind them get funded all the time, especially in a tech VC atmosphere as overheated as this one.

Similar speculation was made in the early days of Stratolaunch, because it just doesn't make sense otherwise. However now that Stratolaunch pivoted to flying hypersonic test vehicle for the military, it sort of became true. I wonder if this will be Spinlaunch's fate too, i.e. not initially intended for military but they'll be forced to pivot once they figure out they can't survive on commercial launch market.

[JCRM]

The performance of the Spinlaunch carrier vehicle is similar to the Sprint local defense anti-ballistic missile.

  Just for laughs. What is the feasibility of the Spinlaunch system being use for anti-ballistic defense against limited attacks on strategic targets. 

Sprint was a point-defense system, so unless you're counting the Spinlaunch installation itself as a 'strategic target', none.

There could be many Spinlaunch systems in the target area (like the ICBM farms in the US mid-West). Spinlaunch systems is cheap compared to nuke tipped Sprint missiles, could also be use for grid power backup or stabilization.

Also the "point defense" range of the Sprint missile is about 40 km, enough to cover a medium size city from a single launch site. Spinlaunch should be a bit more capable in range than the Sprint missile since it is supposedly an orbital launch system.
 

AS long as you have a couple of hour's notice to first aim the spin launch, then spin it up, should be fine.

[Zed_Noir]

The performance of the Spinlaunch carrier vehicle is similar to the Sprint local defense anti-ballistic missile.

  Just for laughs. What is the feasibility of the Spinlaunch system being use for anti-ballistic defense against limited attacks on strategic targets. 

Sprint was a point-defense system, so unless you're counting the Spinlaunch installation itself as a 'strategic target', none.

There could be many Spinlaunch systems in the target area (like the ICBM farms in the US mid-West). Spinlaunch systems is cheap compared to nuke tipped Sprint missiles, could also be use for grid power backup or stabilization.

Also the "point defense" range of the Sprint missile is about 40 km, enough to cover a medium size city from a single launch site. Spinlaunch should be a bit more capable in range than the Sprint missile since it is supposedly an orbital launch system.
 

AS long as you have a couple of hour's notice to first aim the spin launch, then spin it up, should be fine.

For the Spinlaunch system to be use for power grid backup or stabilization requires a really large battery array of the Gigawatt-hour range and above. Should not required hours to spin up, more likely minutes.

[tankat0208]

The performance of the Spinlaunch carrier vehicle is similar to the Sprint local defense anti-ballistic missile.

  Just for laughs. What is the feasibility of the Spinlaunch system being use for anti-ballistic defense against limited attacks on strategic targets. 

Sprint was a point-defense system, so unless you're counting the Spinlaunch installation itself as a 'strategic target', none.

There could be many Spinlaunch systems in the target area (like the ICBM farms in the US mid-West). Spinlaunch systems is cheap compared to nuke tipped Sprint missiles, could also be use for grid power backup or stabilization.

Also the "point defense" range of the Sprint missile is about 40 km, enough to cover a medium size city from a single launch site. Spinlaunch should be a bit more capable in range than the Sprint missile since it is supposedly an orbital launch system.
 

AS long as you have a couple of hour's notice to first aim the spin launch, then spin it up, should be fine.

For the Spinlaunch system to be use for power grid backup or stabilization requires a really large battery array of the Gigawatt-hour range and above. Should not required hours to spin up, more likely minutes.

The entire point of spinlaunch taking an hour to spin up was to distribute the jerk over time, not the energy restraints though.

[Zed_Noir]

<snip>
The entire point of spinlaunch taking an hour to spin up was to distribute the jerk over time, not the energy restraints though.

AIUI Spinlaunch couldn't afford the Gigawatt-hour plus battery array for a fast spin up.

[edzieba]

More that it's just unnecessary for their actual use-case (fixed-inclination space vehicle launch) and not for some fantasy use-case of ABM (which you can't aim because the launcher is built against the side of an immobile hill).

[Asteroza]

More that it's just unnecessary for their actual use-case (fixed-inclination space vehicle launch) and not for some fantasy use-case of ABM (which you can't aim because the launcher is built against the side of an immobile hill).

I'd like to point out while there was some amazing work done on vertical guns (primarily for the US Navy in the VGAS projects as drop ins for VLS tubes, as an alternative to turreted guns), that used maneuverable projectiles which were expected to allow a fair amount of redirecting, I have a feeling that the direction of force made that substantially easier. The sideways load is going to be a real pain for any kind of finned aero-maneuver system, and they would probably have trouble using the offset spinning rear body trick used by one of the DARPA EXACTO candidates.

<snip>
The entire point of spinlaunch taking an hour to spin up was to distribute the jerk over time, not the energy restraints though.

AIUI Spinlaunch couldn't afford the Gigawatt-hour plus battery array for a fast spin up.

No matter how you spin it, there's gonna be jerk spreading though...
but that's expected...

[ThePonjaX]

Seems NASA has same interest on the concept https://news.satnews.com/2022/04/13/spinlaunch-and-nasa-agree-to-test-a-truly-unique-mass-accelerator-launch-system/

[su27k]

An Inside Look: SpinLaunch Flight Test #7



Note they said the test vehicle can be reused, and they stated in the youtube comment section that they plan to reuse the orbital vehicle's aeroshell:

Hi Rob, Yes! We're planning on reusing the orbital vehicle aeroshells. The flight test vehicle shown in this video is the 2nd flight of that specific vehicle, and it's ready for a 3rd flight after having been successfully excavated and inspected.

[CameronD]

An Inside Look: SpinLaunch Flight Test #7

Note they said the test vehicle can be reused, and they stated in the youtube comment section that they plan to reuse the orbital vehicle's aeroshell:

Hi Rob, Yes! We're planning on reusing the orbital vehicle aeroshells. The flight test vehicle shown in this video is the 2nd flight of that specific vehicle, and it's ready for a 3rd flight after having been successfully excavated and inspected.

{emphasis mine} Yes, that's quite an impressive hole-in-the-ground!  Not sure about anyone else, but the recoveries I'm used to seeing don't normally require a digger. 

As impressive as it is, ISTM that 30,000 feet is a long way from "space".. even just sub-orbital space.

[TrevorMonty]

An Inside Look: SpinLaunch Flight Test #7

Note they said the test vehicle can be reused, and they stated in the youtube comment section that they plan to reuse the orbital vehicle's aeroshell:

Hi Rob, Yes! We're planning on reusing the orbital vehicle aeroshells. The flight test vehicle shown in this video is the 2nd flight of that specific vehicle, and it's ready for a 3rd flight after having been successfully excavated and inspected.

{emphasis mine} Yes, that's quite an impressive hole-in-the-ground!  Not sure about anyone else, but the recoveries I'm used to seeing don't normally require a digger. 

Diggers are lot cheaper to own and operate than ships and helicopters.



Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

[CameronD]

Diggers are lot cheaper to own and operate than ships and helicopters.

Well now, if the Spinlaunch gang worked on improving the accuracy a tad perhaps they could chat to Elon's Boring Company crew about 'a novel method of rapid ventilation shaft boring'?!?  Might help pay the electricity bill. 
 

[jongoff]

{emphasis mine} Yes, that's quite an impressive hole-in-the-ground!  Not sure about anyone else, but the recoveries I'm used to seeing don't normally require a digger. 

I believe the HPR people call that a "shovel recovery". :-)

As impressive as it is, ISTM that 30,000 feet is a long way from "space".. even just sub-orbital space.

Sure. I'm guessing that this subscale system was focused primarily on getting the release system and transition to atmospheric flight figured out. They're systematically burning down the technical risk for the full orbital system.

~Jon

[Lars-J]

{emphasis mine} Yes, that's quite an impressive hole-in-the-ground!  Not sure about anyone else, but the recoveries I'm used to seeing don't normally require a digger. 

Diggers are lot cheaper to own and operate than ships and helicopters.



Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Ah yes, lithobraking - the best method of recovery.

[Robotbeat]

So they went to 30,000ft. The German “Paris Gun” from 100 years ago went to over 130,000ft, and that wasn’t straight up. Got a ways to go. And even modern artillery regularly gets up to 30,000ft altitude.

I think the advantage over just artillery are: 1) you’re not using nitrocellulose-based propellant charges, which are more expensive than electricity (but not a LOT more… maybe $1-2/kWh for bulk guncotton vs $0.05-0.10/kWh for industrial electricity). This is kind of irrelevant to other costs, but important in a theoretical sense. 2) more important, you’re not wearing down an expensive gun barrel. Modern artillery shells are not extremely cheap. You’re paying ~$1k-2k/kg of warhead delivered even at these smaller ranges, and much more for guided systems (10x that). So you need to do much better than existing artillery, cost-wise.

Interestingly, most modern long range artillery uses a “base bleed” gas generator on the base just to reduce drag, which increases range significantly. Many are also rocket-assisted.

So I suspect probably spinlaunch will have some small rocket or at least base bleed system for the projectiles lower in the atmosphere.

[Zed_Noir]

Modern artillery shells are not extremely cheap. You’re paying ~$1k-2k/kg of warhead delivered even at these smaller ranges, and much more for guided systems (10x that). So you need to do much better than existing artillery, cost-wise.

You can have cheap artillery shells. But they don't have good fragmentation characteristics.

There are only a few artillery shell caliber diameters in current use; 105mm, 122mm, ~15cm & 203mm. AFAIK only the ~15cm round size was fitted with guidance systems for not very long service. There were issues of excessive artillery barrel wear, the high cost of procurement and maintaining of each round and having an adequate stockpile of the guided rounds to make it worthwhile for actual use.

Interestingly, most modern long range artillery uses a “base bleed” gas generator on the base just to reduce drag, which increases range significantly. Many are also rocket-assisted.

So I suspect probably spinlaunch will have some small rocket or at least base bleed system for the projectiles lower in the atmosphere.

Interesting factoid. Base bleed artillery rounds was developed by Gerald Bull for apartheid South Africa for use in their G5 "howitzer" that out ranged the artillery on the other side. AIUI base bleed not only reduce drag but also stabilize the round from tumbling. Not sure base bleed works with non rotating projectiles like the one in Spinlaunch.

Don't think the spinlaunch projectile needs any range augmentation.

[Asteroza]

Diggers are lot cheaper to own and operate than ships and helicopters.

Well now, if the Spinlaunch gang worked on improving the accuracy a tad perhaps they could chat to Elon's Boring Company crew about 'a novel method of rapid ventilation shaft boring'?!?  Might help pay the electricity bill. 

You laugh, but there is a hypersonic projectile boring company...

https://www.hypersciences.com/applications/#geothermal-drilling

[uranium]

Diggers are lot cheaper to own and operate than ships and helicopters.

Well now, if the Spinlaunch gang worked on improving the accuracy a tad perhaps they could chat to Elon's Boring Company crew about 'a novel method of rapid ventilation shaft boring'?!?  Might help pay the electricity bill. 

You laugh, but there is a hypersonic projectile boring company...

https://www.hypersciences.com/applications/#geothermal-drilling

And in fact that company's technology is also in development for high-G ground-based-first-stage space launch: https://www.pipeline2space.com/

[Conexion Espacial]

On Friday, April 22nd, we conducted Flight Test #8 where the engineering team tested our first optical camera payload in our Suborbital Accelerator. Check out this exclusive onboard footage that shows the perspective of the 3-meter flight test vehicle being launched into the atmosphere at more than a thousand miles per hour. Flying with the digital camera system onboard marks an important step towards integrating complex payloads into SpinLaunch flight test vehicles.


Comprised of the key components needed for the Orbital Launch System, the Suborbital Accelerator is a critical steppingstone in SpinLaunch's path to orbit and providing customers with low-cost, sustainable access to space.