SpinLaunch: General Company and Development Updates and Discussions

[CameronD]

Spinlaunch rests firmly in a part of the trade space where it’s known to be both physically possible but also fundamentally infeasible in the marketplace.

It has no advantage over a conventional rocket.

That'd be the "non-traditional launch" space folks refer to.  "Spin" launch in more ways than one! 

[HMXHMX]

Spinlaunch rests firmly in a part of the trade space where it’s known to be both physically possible but also fundamentally infeasible in the marketplace.

It has no advantage over a conventional rocket.

Or an aircraft.

[Asteroza]

Spinlaunch rests firmly in a part of the trade space where it’s known to be both physically possible but also fundamentally infeasible in the marketplace.

It has no advantage over a conventional rocket.

I'll bite here, with caveat, that a spinlaunch system might be market feasible, provided you were delivering bulk propellant in staggering quantities, the easiest being water which can be cracked in orbit for LOx/LH2. That might even be more market feasible if you had a MX tether or similar "unbomber" catcher infrastructure in orbit for catching projectiles that could cut the orbit raise out, leaving you with just a RCS system in the projectile. If you had an anchor customer or a national directive that could justify the propellant logistics, then by all means, it makes a reasonable amount of sense and a somewhat compelling business case. Though that also presupposes other launch providers for squishy cargo (but that could also cover return of projectiles if that made any sense).

Though that also needs to be compared to the backdrop of other systems, especially ones that fundamentally are electric based, such as "conventional" maglev catapults, railguns, and beamed power SSTO launchers (laser/microwave), along with direct comparisons such as the Quicklaunch ocean floating light gas gun pipe launcher.

Either way, the raw propellant payload volume from the centralization of space traffic sufficient to justify/require a monster propellant depot is approaching national project grade. If you had such a guaranteed market, other launcher systems would also step up. To be honest, if you were at that stage, a beamed power SSTO with the beaming stations also feeding power to MX tether/unbomber systems with momentum recovery by electrodynamic tether seems like a more attractive route.

[su27k]

SpinLaunch expands New Mexico test site

At a presentation last month during a meeting of the board of directors of the New Mexico Spaceport Authority, Scott McLaughlin, acting executive director of Spaceport America, said the company is building an evacuated centrifuge 30 meters in diameter. That will be able to accelerate objects to Mach 5 before “catapulting” it out a door.

The facility is intended for use in suborbital tests, which McLaughlin said will be done in cooperation with nearby White Sands Missile Range. Objects launched from the centrifuge will go to an altitude of about 100 kilometers before landing at White Sands. Those tests will begin some time in 2021, he said, the same time frame the company stated in the announcement of its expansion there.

[Robotbeat]

Spinlaunch rests firmly in a part of the trade space where it’s known to be both physically possible but also fundamentally infeasible in the marketplace.

It has no advantage over a conventional rocket.

I'll bite here, with caveat, that a spinlaunch system might be market feasible, provided you were delivering bulk propellant in staggering quantities, the easiest being water which can be cracked in orbit for LOx/LH2. That might even be more market feasible if you had a MX tether or similar "unbomber" catcher infrastructure in orbit for catching projectiles that could cut the orbit raise out, leaving you with just a RCS system in the projectile. If you had an anchor customer or a national directive that could justify the propellant logistics, then by all means, it makes a reasonable amount of sense and a somewhat compelling business case. Though that also presupposes other launch providers for squishy cargo (but that could also cover return of projectiles if that made any sense).

Though that also needs to be compared to the backdrop of other systems, especially ones that fundamentally are electric based, such as "conventional" maglev catapults, railguns, and beamed power SSTO launchers (laser/microwave), along with direct comparisons such as the Quicklaunch ocean floating light gas gun pipe launcher.

Either way, the raw propellant payload volume from the centralization of space traffic sufficient to justify/require a monster propellant depot is approaching national project grade. If you had such a guaranteed market, other launcher systems would also step up. To be honest, if you were at that stage, a beamed power SSTO with the beaming stations also feeding power to MX tether/unbomber systems with momentum recovery by electrodynamic tether seems like a more attractive route.

Nope because their approach is fundamentally more expensive per kg than rockets we already have like Falcon 9. Again, NO ADVANTAGE.

Electric-based launch systems are absolutely terrible... with the exception perhaps of a very modest launch assist. Maybe up to 300mph, no more than about Mach 3 for sure. Rapid decreasing returns for anything beyond like 300mph IMHO.

Rockets are just way better than people think they are.

[matthewkantar]

SpinLaunch expands New Mexico test site

At a presentation last month during a meeting of the board of directors of the New Mexico Spaceport Authority, Scott McLaughlin, acting executive director of Spaceport America, said the company is building an evacuated centrifuge 30 meters in diameter. That will be able to accelerate objects to Mach 5 before “catapulting” it out a door.

The facility is intended for use in suborbital tests, which McLaughlin said will be done in cooperation with nearby White Sands Missile Range. Objects launched from the centrifuge will go to an altitude of about 100 kilometers before landing at White Sands. Those tests will begin some time in 2021, he said, the same time frame the company stated in the announcement of its expansion there.

I can not wait to see the launch broadcast. Please please please live coverage!

[Asteroza]

Spinlaunch rests firmly in a part of the trade space where it’s known to be both physically possible but also fundamentally infeasible in the marketplace.

It has no advantage over a conventional rocket.

I'll bite here, with caveat, that a spinlaunch system might be market feasible, provided you were delivering bulk propellant in staggering quantities, the easiest being water which can be cracked in orbit for LOx/LH2. That might even be more market feasible if you had a MX tether or similar "unbomber" catcher infrastructure in orbit for catching projectiles that could cut the orbit raise out, leaving you with just a RCS system in the projectile. If you had an anchor customer or a national directive that could justify the propellant logistics, then by all means, it makes a reasonable amount of sense and a somewhat compelling business case. Though that also presupposes other launch providers for squishy cargo (but that could also cover return of projectiles if that made any sense).

Though that also needs to be compared to the backdrop of other systems, especially ones that fundamentally are electric based, such as "conventional" maglev catapults, railguns, and beamed power SSTO launchers (laser/microwave), along with direct comparisons such as the Quicklaunch ocean floating light gas gun pipe launcher.

Either way, the raw propellant payload volume from the centralization of space traffic sufficient to justify/require a monster propellant depot is approaching national project grade. If you had such a guaranteed market, other launcher systems would also step up. To be honest, if you were at that stage, a beamed power SSTO with the beaming stations also feeding power to MX tether/unbomber systems with momentum recovery by electrodynamic tether seems like a more attractive route.

Nope because their approach is fundamentally more expensive per kg than rockets we already have like Falcon 9. Again, NO ADVANTAGE.

Electric-based launch systems are absolutely terrible... with the exception perhaps of a very modest launch assist. Maybe up to 300mph, no more than about Mach 3 for sure. Rapid decreasing returns for anything beyond like 300mph IMHO.

Rockets are just way better than people think they are.

Seeing as how you specifically call out $/kg we should mention that. As previously described, Spinlaunch are saying they are 100kg for $500,000 so $5K/kg so as they currently stand the price may be unattractive compared to Falcon 9 which is going below $3K/kg in a direct cost comparison. Whether that can reasonably go lower is an open question (consumables such as the projectile, outer door to vacuum chamber if expendable, O&M plus electrical cost for spinup). It was mentioned they do an hour long spinup, so throughput would be limited by pumpdown time for the vacuum chamber, so a rough guess is best case maybe 20 launches a day if you had fast pumpdown and reloading, so 2 metric tons a day max?

There have been proposals for laser beamed power HX SSTO's in the sub $1K/kg range, assuming fairly high system throughput (that huge upfront system cost is harsh).

[high road]

SpinLaunch expands New Mexico test site

At a presentation last month during a meeting of the board of directors of the New Mexico Spaceport Authority, Scott McLaughlin, acting executive director of Spaceport America, said the company is building an evacuated centrifuge 30 meters in diameter. That will be able to accelerate objects to Mach 5 before “catapulting” it out a door.

The facility is intended for use in suborbital tests, which McLaughlin said will be done in cooperation with nearby White Sands Missile Range. Objects launched from the centrifuge will go to an altitude of about 100 kilometers before landing at White Sands. Those tests will begin some time in 2021, he said, the same time frame the company stated in the announcement of its expansion there.

a 30 m diameter vacuum chamber flinging a spacecraft at mach 5 into a wall of atmosphere rushing in at mach 1. That could be very exciting footage.

[Darkseraph]

Might a centrifugal concept like this work as a very compact mass driver on Mars or The Moon that don't have this atmosphere problem? The concepts for mass drivers I have seen so far require pretty large infrastructure that would be heavy and challenging to build. The lower gravity well of these other bodies would also make the G-Forces significantly lower.

[edzieba]

SpinLaunch expands New Mexico test site

At a presentation last month during a meeting of the board of directors of the New Mexico Spaceport Authority, Scott McLaughlin, acting executive director of Spaceport America, said the company is building an evacuated centrifuge 30 meters in diameter. That will be able to accelerate objects to Mach 5 before “catapulting” it out a door.

The facility is intended for use in suborbital tests, which McLaughlin said will be done in cooperation with nearby White Sands Missile Range. Objects launched from the centrifuge will go to an altitude of about 100 kilometers before landing at White Sands. Those tests will begin some time in 2021, he said, the same time frame the company stated in the announcement of its expansion there.

a 30 m diameter vacuum chamber flinging a spacecraft at mach 5 into a wall of atmosphere rushing in at mach 1. That could be very exciting footage.

Mach 5 is barely half-way to Super-HARP's 3 km/s (near Mach 9) exit velocity, and still below the Mach 6.2 of HARP. Aero losses of the projectile travelling through the atmosphere are a concern, but hypervelocity projectiles merely encountering air has decades of existence proofs.

[jstrotha0975]

Might a centrifugal concept like this work as a very compact mass driver on Mars or The Moon that don't have this atmosphere problem? The concepts for mass drivers I have seen so far require pretty large infrastructure that would be heavy and challenging to build. The lower gravity well of these other bodies would also make the G-Forces significantly lower.

Yes, it has been discussed earlier in this thread.

[Robotbeat]

Spinlaunch rests firmly in a part of the trade space where it’s known to be both physically possible but also fundamentally infeasible in the marketplace.

It has no advantage over a conventional rocket.

I'll bite here, with caveat, that a spinlaunch system might be market feasible, provided you were delivering bulk propellant in staggering quantities, the easiest being water which can be cracked in orbit for LOx/LH2. That might even be more market feasible if you had a MX tether or similar "unbomber" catcher infrastructure in orbit for catching projectiles that could cut the orbit raise out, leaving you with just a RCS system in the projectile. If you had an anchor customer or a national directive that could justify the propellant logistics, then by all means, it makes a reasonable amount of sense and a somewhat compelling business case. Though that also presupposes other launch providers for squishy cargo (but that could also cover return of projectiles if that made any sense).

Though that also needs to be compared to the backdrop of other systems, especially ones that fundamentally are electric based, such as "conventional" maglev catapults, railguns, and beamed power SSTO launchers (laser/microwave), along with direct comparisons such as the Quicklaunch ocean floating light gas gun pipe launcher.

Either way, the raw propellant payload volume from the centralization of space traffic sufficient to justify/require a monster propellant depot is approaching national project grade. If you had such a guaranteed market, other launcher systems would also step up. To be honest, if you were at that stage, a beamed power SSTO with the beaming stations also feeding power to MX tether/unbomber systems with momentum recovery by electrodynamic tether seems like a more attractive route.

Nope because their approach is fundamentally more expensive per kg than rockets we already have like Falcon 9. Again, NO ADVANTAGE.

Electric-based launch systems are absolutely terrible... with the exception perhaps of a very modest launch assist. Maybe up to 300mph, no more than about Mach 3 for sure. Rapid decreasing returns for anything beyond like 300mph IMHO.

Rockets are just way better than people think they are.

Seeing as how you specifically call out $/kg we should mention that. As previously described, Spinlaunch are saying they are 100kg for $500,000 so $5K/kg so as they currently stand the price may be unattractive compared to Falcon 9 which is going below $3K/kg in a direct cost comparison. Whether that can reasonably go lower is an open question (consumables such as the projectile, outer door to vacuum chamber if expendable, O&M plus electrical cost for spinup). It was mentioned they do an hour long spinup, so throughput would be limited by pumpdown time for the vacuum chamber, so a rough guess is best case maybe 20 launches a day if you had fast pumpdown and reloading, so 2 metric tons a day max?

There have been proposals for laser beamed power HX SSTO's in the sub $1K/kg range, assuming fairly high system throughput (that huge upfront system cost is harsh).

Just as comparison, Falcon 9 can get about $1000/kg marginal costs already according to Musk. Without massive laser capital cost and without high acceleration or whatever.

Starship, which is fancy but ultimately still just a conventional rocket (and still leaves room for energy optimization on the table by not using an oxygen-rich first stage and not using a near-stoich hydrolox upper stage), can do perhaps as low as $10/kg.

[high road]

SpinLaunch expands New Mexico test site

At a presentation last month during a meeting of the board of directors of the New Mexico Spaceport Authority, Scott McLaughlin, acting executive director of Spaceport America, said the company is building an evacuated centrifuge 30 meters in diameter. That will be able to accelerate objects to Mach 5 before “catapulting” it out a door.

The facility is intended for use in suborbital tests, which McLaughlin said will be done in cooperation with nearby White Sands Missile Range. Objects launched from the centrifuge will go to an altitude of about 100 kilometers before landing at White Sands. Those tests will begin some time in 2021, he said, the same time frame the company stated in the announcement of its expansion there.

a 30 m diameter vacuum chamber flinging a spacecraft at mach 5 into a wall of atmosphere rushing in at mach 1. That could be very exciting footage.

Mach 5 is barely half-way to Super-HARP's 3 km/s (near Mach 9) exit velocity, and still below the Mach 6.2 of HARP. Aero losses of the projectile travelling through the atmosphere are a concern, but hypervelocity projectiles merely encountering air has decades of existence proofs.

That's not getting launched from a vacuum chamber. I expect more damage or wear on the ground equipment than on the payload.

[ncb1397]

SpinLaunch expands New Mexico test site

At a presentation last month during a meeting of the board of directors of the New Mexico Spaceport Authority, Scott McLaughlin, acting executive director of Spaceport America, said the company is building an evacuated centrifuge 30 meters in diameter. That will be able to accelerate objects to Mach 5 before “catapulting” it out a door.

The facility is intended for use in suborbital tests, which McLaughlin said will be done in cooperation with nearby White Sands Missile Range. Objects launched from the centrifuge will go to an altitude of about 100 kilometers before landing at White Sands. Those tests will begin some time in 2021, he said, the same time frame the company stated in the announcement of its expansion there.

a 30 m diameter vacuum chamber flinging a spacecraft at mach 5 into a wall of atmosphere rushing in at mach 1. That could be very exciting footage.

There is already footage of similar stuff.



Mach 5 would be a bit tame in comparison.

[high road]

SpinLaunch expands New Mexico test site

At a presentation last month during a meeting of the board of directors of the New Mexico Spaceport Authority, Scott McLaughlin, acting executive director of Spaceport America, said the company is building an evacuated centrifuge 30 meters in diameter. That will be able to accelerate objects to Mach 5 before “catapulting” it out a door.

The facility is intended for use in suborbital tests, which McLaughlin said will be done in cooperation with nearby White Sands Missile Range. Objects launched from the centrifuge will go to an altitude of about 100 kilometers before landing at White Sands. Those tests will begin some time in 2021, he said, the same time frame the company stated in the announcement of its expansion there.

a 30 m diameter vacuum chamber flinging a spacecraft at mach 5 into a wall of atmosphere rushing in at mach 1. That could be very exciting footage.

There is already footage of similar stuff.



Mach 5 would be a bit tame in comparison.

Where is the vacuum chamber in that video? I didn't see it.

[edzieba]

SpinLaunch expands New Mexico test site

At a presentation last month during a meeting of the board of directors of the New Mexico Spaceport Authority, Scott McLaughlin, acting executive director of Spaceport America, said the company is building an evacuated centrifuge 30 meters in diameter. That will be able to accelerate objects to Mach 5 before “catapulting” it out a door.

The facility is intended for use in suborbital tests, which McLaughlin said will be done in cooperation with nearby White Sands Missile Range. Objects launched from the centrifuge will go to an altitude of about 100 kilometers before landing at White Sands. Those tests will begin some time in 2021, he said, the same time frame the company stated in the announcement of its expansion there.

a 30 m diameter vacuum chamber flinging a spacecraft at mach 5 into a wall of atmosphere rushing in at mach 1. That could be very exciting footage.

Mach 5 is barely half-way to Super-HARP's 3 km/s (near Mach 9) exit velocity, and still below the Mach 6.2 of HARP. Aero losses of the projectile travelling through the atmosphere are a concern, but hypervelocity projectiles merely encountering air has decades of existence proofs.

That's not getting launched from a vacuum chamber. I expect more damage or wear on the ground equipment than on the payload.

SHARP is a light gas gun. The projectile is within a vacuum chamber until it exits the muzzle, with the vacuum retained by a plastic seal pierced by the exiting projectile. This is standard for hypervelocity light gas guns that fire projectiles into the atmosphere rather than directly into vacuum chambers.

[Pueo]

Spinlaunch rests firmly in a part of the trade space where it’s known to be both physically possible but also fundamentally infeasible in the marketplace.

It has no advantage over a conventional rocket.

For satellites, probably.  But if you want a way to send a projectile on a harsh suborbital trajectory as a re-entry vehicle simulator it might be cost effective.  I can certainly think of one potential customer who would want to test vehicles for Mach 5 flight in the atmosphere, and Spin Launch is already is planing for its prototype to land projectiles in that customer's backyard.

[ncb1397]

Where is the vacuum chamber in that video? I didn't see it.

No vacuum chamber. Air friction was reduced by replacing air with helium.

[Robotbeat]

Spinlaunch rests firmly in a part of the trade space where it’s known to be both physically possible but also fundamentally infeasible in the marketplace.

It has no advantage over a conventional rocket.

For satellites, probably.  But if you want a way to send a projectile on a harsh suborbital trajectory as a re-entry vehicle simulator it might be cost effective.  I can certainly think of one potential customer who would want to test vehicles for Mach 5 flight in the atmosphere, and Spin Launch is already is planing for its prototype to land projectiles in that customer's backyard.

Sure. Munitions might make sense. But as you say, probably only for tests as there are operational drawbacks to their approach.

[high road]

SpinLaunch expands New Mexico test site

At a presentation last month during a meeting of the board of directors of the New Mexico Spaceport Authority, Scott McLaughlin, acting executive director of Spaceport America, said the company is building an evacuated centrifuge 30 meters in diameter. That will be able to accelerate objects to Mach 5 before “catapulting” it out a door.

The facility is intended for use in suborbital tests, which McLaughlin said will be done in cooperation with nearby White Sands Missile Range. Objects launched from the centrifuge will go to an altitude of about 100 kilometers before landing at White Sands. Those tests will begin some time in 2021, he said, the same time frame the company stated in the announcement of its expansion there.

a 30 m diameter vacuum chamber flinging a spacecraft at mach 5 into a wall of atmosphere rushing in at mach 1. That could be very exciting footage.

Mach 5 is barely half-way to Super-HARP's 3 km/s (near Mach 9) exit velocity, and still below the Mach 6.2 of HARP. Aero losses of the projectile travelling through the atmosphere are a concern, but hypervelocity projectiles merely encountering air has decades of existence proofs.

That's not getting launched from a vacuum chamber. I expect more damage or wear on the ground equipment than on the payload.

SHARP is a light gas gun. The projectile is within a vacuum chamber until it exits the muzzle, with the vacuum retained by a plastic seal pierced by the exiting projectile. This is standard for hypervelocity light gas guns that fire projectiles into the atmosphere rather than directly into vacuum chambers.

The projectile is propelled by pressure when it meets the barrier, so the gun itself does not face the same issues as a 30m vacuum chamber with expensive equipment in it that suddenly has a payload size hole. But breaking a non-reusable seal would be safer for the payload than anything reusablč that I can think of. And there can be a combination of both to quickly close the hole and prevent a large part of the damage.