Let me do a question.
The conical section are really in contact with the flat end plates, or was used some kind of Insulator between them, creating a lambda/2 stub at two sides?
If in contact, is the corner at big end sharp, or there is a small curvature?
Dear Onlyme.
Thank you by the indication.
It was reported as a aproximation error, but the asymmetric field pointed by Seeshells, appears to be exactly the rare case of 3D odd-degeneracy, explained in the article anexed.
"As a result, two eigenmodes are in the broken-symmetry phase with infini-
tesimal T breaking and the other one stays in the symmetric
phase. The existence of the latter is determined solely by
the fact that these non-Hermitian eigenfrequencies are
given by the roots of a cubic equation with real coefficients.
The latter is well known but has never found its way into
non-Hermitian systems as far as we know, since it is very
rare to find real eigenvalues systematically in non-Hermitian systems without the PT symmetry."
And there is, of course, the beautiful asymmetric RS signature of a possible Fano resonance.
PS: PT symmetry and it's breaking can be purely dissipative (without gain).
Dear Onlyme.
Thank you by the indication.
It was reported as a aproximation error, but the asymmetric field pointed by Seeshells, appears to be exactly the rare case of 3D odd-degeneracy, explained in the article anexed.
"As a result, two eigenmodes are in the broken-symmetry phase with infini-
tesimal T breaking and the other one stays in the symmetric
phase. The existence of the latter is determined solely by
the fact that these non-Hermitian eigenfrequencies are
given by the roots of a cubic equation with real coefficients.
The latter is well known but has never found its way into
non-Hermitian systems as far as we know, since it is very
rare to find real eigenvalues systematically in non-Hermitian systems without the PT symmetry."
And there is, of course, the beautiful asymmetric RS signature of a possible Fano resonance.
PS: PT symmetry and it's breaking can be purely dissipative (without gain).观察这个电磁场分布图,未呈现出明显的电磁场强度差异,腔体净推力也不会太明显。包括我之前设计的TE013模腔体,内部电磁场强度梯度差异都很弱。一定要采用新的结构设计,来提高电磁梯度差异,比如采用内部导电结构来偏转电磁场形态。
Dear Onlyme.
Thank you by the indication.
It was reported as a aproximation error, but the asymmetric field pointed by Seeshells, appears to be exactly the rare case of 3D odd-degeneracy, explained in the article anexed.
Dear Onlyme.
Thank you by the indication.
It was reported as a aproximation error, but the asymmetric field pointed by Seeshells, appears to be exactly the rare case of 3D odd-degeneracy, explained in the article anexed.
I don't know how you came to that conclusion, but the pictures provided* have no relationship to the article that you provided. Also, that picture really does appear to be a case of a modelling error, it is not hard to get all sort of weird results from such models if you configure them wrong. There are straightforward ways to confirm results in cases like this, such as changing the mesh and see if you still get the same results.
In general, I am not sure what value you are intending to add with your post. You don't draw any conclusions that would explain a working emDrive, or help with running any experiments. You seem to be saying "hey look, asymmetry!" but asymmetry doesn't just erase conservation of energy and momentum, and you can't cal 2 things equivalent just because they aren't symmetric.
*you should post a link to original sources, if it is a locked thread, right click on the post title and click "copy shortcut" or whatever similar text your browser provides.
Dear meberbs,
I will do a affirmation and you can agree or disagree.
A simple yes or no.
If irrelevant to you, then this conversation ends here, and no more waste of time to us.
There is a Fano like resonance happening in the frequency of simulation.
Quoted from rfmguy , thread 6, Page 169
"Thanks for the new runs. Almost positive rfmwguy_freq_sweep_reflection_coefficient_real.jpg is a phase transition rather than a S11 plot."
Dear meberbs,
I will do a affirmation and you can agree or disagree.
A simple yes or no.
If irrelevant to you, then this conversation ends here, and no more waste of time to us.
There is a Fano like resonance happening in the frequency of simulation.
Quoted from rfmguy , thread 6, Page 169
"Thanks for the new runs. Almost positive rfmwguy_freq_sweep_reflection_coefficient_real.jpg is a phase transition rather than a S11 plot."First, that is not a link to the original sources which I explained how to provide. Second, while the text you provided is from rfmwguy, the pictures were from Monomorphic, again demonstrating why you should post the link.
As to your question, the answer is no.
The first picture in your post is meaningless, as the quoted text says. The real part of an S parameter on its own has little meaning.
The simulation was run by someone still learning how to use the tool at the time. They later posted an alternate resonance picture from the same run that did not show the distorted mode shape.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39004.msg1500243#msg1500243
Based on this, the original picture likely was due to a numerical error, probably due to something like the scale auto-adjusting and making numerical noise visible in a picture where the field was effectively 0 everywhere.
Also, the plots shown here are all plotting different things than what Fano resonance refers to.

The "real part" is the phase of S parameter, as explained by the quote, so it has a very clear meaning, a 180 degree inversion.
If you cannot see the signature of a Fano like resonant effect, that it is only your problem.
The simulation is in time domain, and the frequency of interest is exactly in the middle of narrow bandwidth of phase inversion, so the frequency of the source must be exact, or the simulation will converge out of phase inversion region, and yes, the discretization process will add a quantization noise and it can spread the energy of the source out of phase inversion region, but during the transients of simulation, the pattern of fields of phase inversion region may appears.
Hello friends ! I have been reading the forum for many years, and I want to send a lot of respect to all the forum members. You are great fellows.
Please have a look at one simulation? I want to understand what this can mean.
Once I thought that the magnetron .. That it works like that is unstable. And I decided to model. I took two frequencies, two modes and came up with the idea that you can quickly change, switch the frequency. It seemed to me that I heard photons knocking on walls. Knock Knock.
Then I want to ask - what will the electrons do in the skin layer, what will happen to the eddy currents in the walls.?
I also wanted to hear how this resonator. That it radiates gravitational waves. But how? It seems there is a focus of gravitational waves here?
The "real part" is the phase of S parameter, as explained by the quote, so it has a very clear meaning, a 180 degree inversion.The real part is a weird meaningless (on its own) mix of the amplitude and phase. To actually get the phase you need the imaginary part as well. A sudden change in sign of the real part could represent a 180 degree phase shift, a 90 degree phase shift, or possibly some random phase shift if there are also amplitude shifts at the same time.If you cannot see the signature of a Fano like resonant effect, that it is only your problem.It appears you have no clue what you are looking at. The axes of the graph are simply not the parameters that would be relevant for Fano resonance. S11 parameters are not something that are related to Fano resonance in this situation. Actually, I don't know of a way that you could make Fano resonance applicable to this situation.The simulation is in time domain, and the frequency of interest is exactly in the middle of narrow bandwidth of phase inversion, so the frequency of the source must be exact, or the simulation will converge out of phase inversion region, and yes, the discretization process will add a quantization noise and it can spread the energy of the source out of phase inversion region, but during the transients of simulation, the pattern of fields of phase inversion region may appears.What in the world are you talking about? It sounds like you are trying to respond to my explanation of why the resonance pattern simulation is wrong by using words I used, but nothing you are saying actually relates to the points I made (such as the fact that the original modeler, found that the picture you showed was clearly an artifact due to them not understanding how to use the tool fully.) Plus you mix in some more comments about phase that further indicates that you don't understand what the S11 plots mean.
Hello friends ! I have been reading the forum for many years, and I want to send a lot of respect to all the forum members. You are great fellows. Please have a look at one simulation? I want to understand what this can mean.Welcome!
It means that someone took results for 2 different resonance modes and superimposed them in a single image to compare their appearances.
The frequency and the graph scale are both significantly different for the 2 modes, which is to be expected.Once I thought that the magnetron .. That it works like that is unstable. And I decided to model. I took two frequencies, two modes and came up with the idea that you can quickly change, switch the frequency. It seemed to me that I heard photons knocking on walls. Knock Knock.It is entirely possible to put 2 frequencies in at the same time the result would be a simple linear superposition of the individual results.
The exact result of rapidly switching between 2 frequencies depends on several things including the definition of rapid, especially relative to the cavity fill time. Fast enough, and it would basically just be equivalent to putting them in at the same time, but with half of the respective power. Slower, and it would just transition between the 2 modes over the relevant fill/decay times. There would be no knocking. The location of the peak fields moving back and forth would not have significant effects.Then I want to ask - what will the electrons do in the skin layer, what will happen to the eddy currents in the walls.?Linear superposition, just like the fields.
Re: EM Drive Developments - related to space flight applications - Thread 10
« Reply #3294 on: 05/19/2018 03:47 pm »
Like
Quote from: X_RaY on 05/19/2018 03:06 pm
On the Anomalous Forces in Microwave Cavity-Magnetron Systems
March 2018
DOI10.13140/RG.2.2.14981.86243
Elio Battista PorcelliElio Battista PorcelliVicto S. FilhoVicto S. Filho
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324023769_On_the_Anomalous_Forces_in_Microwave_Cavity-Magne...
My goodness. If you strap a magnetron to a Frustum you're going to get a mess. Heat, magnetic fields, DC currents and pulsing AC along with RF splattering all over base frequencies.
Rfmwguy and Monomorphic and a few others found this out. If you're going to use a magnetron to get your RF, please clean up the power supply, fix the issues with the heater, thermally stabilize the magnetron, and get it away from the frustum!
Shell
Hello friends ! I have been reading the forum for many years, and I want to send a lot of respect to all the forum members. You are great fellows.
...I also wanted to hear how this resonator. That it radiates gravitational waves. But how? It seems there is a focus of gravitational waves here?Gravitational waves are generally only significant when coming from black holes, the most massive objects in the universe (Or comparably massive stars). No benchtop anything can radiate gravitational waves in any measureable way (energy, momentum, or amplitude of spatial distortion.)
Helloy James !! Please tell me if your installation can quickly-quickly switch the frequency and test the hypothesis that the Emdrive needs a very-very fast-unstable magnetron?
Thank's meberbs.
Your appointment about the wrong nomenclature is correct.
My fault.
The plot just shows a fast transition of one component of reflection coefficient ( max norm equals to 1), with a signal change, and I can not affirm it was a almost pi transition of phase response, just like the plot below.
I've added the link about Fano resonances in my last post.
For the most part this is true. There is very little coupling to the vacuum normally to detect much less generate gravity waves.
Some physicists think LIGO is generating gravity waves because of their coupling. Because gravity waves can induce detectable changes in EM fields it also goes the other way. Their EM fields can also induce minor gravity waves.
All of this depends if Eugene's experiments are valid and actually generate the waves he claims. I tend not to jump to the conclusion he is a liar so I'm still currently interested to learn more. (particularly the gravity impulse generator)
Helloy James !! Please tell me if your installation can quickly-quickly switch the frequency and test the hypothesis that the Emdrive needs a very-very fast-unstable magnetron?
Hello and welcome! The signal generator I use is capable of fast frequency switching. You can read about its capabilities here: https://windfreaktech.com/product/rf-signal-generator-and-power-detector/
However, we have seen that Shawyer now uses solid state RF amplifiers. He claims that the end-plates need to be spherical to get the full "thrust" when using solid state RF.
I've tried both spherical and flat end-plates and I understand that TU Dresden has also tried both without success.