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#1420 by Bob012345 on 06 Sep, 2019 18:03
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Sometimes 1+1 is not equal to 2.
Never true. it is the definition of the numbers 1, 2, and the + operator.Occasionally our definitions are incomplete.
Sometimes true, but Shawyer and TT do not propose any change in physics, they just do the math wrong, often by flipping signs on forces. They are not proposing extending the definitions.Also, it's a fact that sometimes the sum is more than the parts such as the effect of two half critical masses separately and then together!
No, the energy released comes out of their original masses. If you want to make the colloquial phrase scientifically accurate, "the sum is more useful than the parts." (Unless you are trying to talk about something like human emotion, which is not a scientifically conserved quantity, and does not combine arithmetically, but that would be WAY off topic.)
1+1 = 10.
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#1421 by Alex_O on 06 Sep, 2019 19:47
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Dear meberbs! (sorry for my english)
Let me show you a simple idea about the conservation of momentum in a system where photons are emitted .. Of course, I am familiar with the main articles, but the topic of momentum is raised on this forum almost every day. I did a thought experiment and got what I think is an important result. With your permission, I use simple words.
1. Take an ideal spherical source of many photons (light bulb), place it in an ideal place in the universe and turn it on. Photons uniformly leave the source at a solid angle of 360 degrees and each photon carries with it a pulse. But our Source remains motionless, at rest. A school physics teacher will say that the total momentum in the system is zero.
2. We place a test body next to it, a small-sized solar sail. This is a black body. A sail absorbs some photons without reflection. And begins to move. Amazing! The total photon momentum in the system has not changed. The photon source is at rest. And we have the Sail Movement. We see how it accelerates. We can sail the astronaut and he will fly away. But the momentum in the system is zero, and the Sail Pull Force = greater than zero.
3. Take a transparent rope and tie a source of photons to the Black Sail with a rope. Got a photon rocket, but nothing has changed. The total momentum of all the photons that flew away from the Source - (according to the school physics textbook) is strictly zero. Don't you find it strange?
I have a simple explanation.
1. The photon that flew from the Source - it no longer belongs to the Source. He flew away. A photon can fly 13 billion light years and reach the edge of the universe. You can already turn off the source of photons, destroy it - and photons will still exist in the universe.
2. Theorem. Any photon that is created by the source physically belongs and this is some kind of (not yet known to people) physical process that is physically determined in what we call the space-continuum. You can trap these photons, put the photon sources in a closed box - but no photon belongs to and is not connected with the photon source.
3. Note. The problem of calculating the momentum of photons is the problem of calculating or accounting for physical processes in a "test tube", the size of which is equal to the size of the universe. And the law of conservation of momentum should be accurately calculated for the entire universe, taking into account the passage of time. And on smaller scales and times - the magnitude of the total photon momentum is a variable value.
==
Next, I spent the discussion and added another sail to the system, got an analog of two mirror antennas. Black Sails have a different area, and a small sail is now a brake. The thrust of my rocket has become less. But the rocket is flying forward, and the total momentum in the operating system by the name of the universe is still zero. Then I remembered the wave nature of photons and studied the question of a resonator with a Q factor. I saw that the thrust of a two-mirror rocket depends on the quality of the resonance, on the quality factor.
Comment. I had to perform an engineering trick. To build the resonator, I turned the black sail into a mirror, but retained the "blackness". In the sense that a photon is reflected multiple times, it will still be absorbed on one of the sails (with a certain probability (which should be considered according to the laws of geometric probability, on a small or large sail, depends on the ratio of the size of the sails + probability of random selection).
Another example.
In zero gravity we shoot a bullet from a gun. But a bucket (with a slot) was attached to the barrel of the gun. After the shot, the gun begins to move "backwards" until the bullet hits inelastically in the bottom of the bucket - and the gun stops. With each shot, this system will make a slight “backward” movement. Until the cartridges run out. So you can go the way to the "million kilometers". Emdrive will fly the same way. Until the battery runs out of energy. We built (according to the school physics textbooks) a closed system and made a movement in the space-continuum due to the work of internal forces. -
#1422 by meberbs on 06 Sep, 2019 20:33
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2. We place a test body next to it, a small-sized solar sail. This is a black body. A sail absorbs some photons without reflection. And begins to move. Amazing! The total photon momentum in the system has not changed.
False, if photons were absorbed, then there are no longer photons moving in the direction that the sail now is moving. The net momentum of the remaining, non-absorbed photons is equal magnitude but opposite direction to the momentum that has been absorbed by the sail.
Most of the rest of your post is extrapolation from this mistake.In zero gravity we shoot a bullet from a gun. But a bucket (with a slot) was attached to the barrel of the gun. After the shot, the gun begins to move "backwards" until the bullet hits inelastically in the bottom of the bucket - and the gun stops. With each shot, this system will make a slight “backward” movement. Until the cartridges run out. So you can go the way to the "million kilometers".
Again, no. The center of mass of the system of gun, bucket and bullets does not move. In the extreme case where the bucket and gun weigh almost nothing compared to the bullets, the total motion you would get by exhausting all of the bullets would only move the gun and bucket by approximately the distance from the magazine of the gun to the bottom of the bucket. (By the time you are done, the bullets will approximately be back where they started, which is where the bottom of the bucket end up.) Instead if you got rid of the bucket, then you would have a standard rocket which could go an unlimited distance (assuming you aren't stuck in a gravity well), but at a speed limited by the ratio of the mass of the bullets to the gun, and the speed at which the bullets are expelled. -
#1423 by TheTraveller on 07 Sep, 2019 02:43
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Using the paper Roger has placed into the public domain, my plan is to build a replica of the SPR Flight Thruster, Rf system, freq tracking system and Roger's test Rig. I have Roger's permission to do this.
Will then offer this package to others to do their own testing and post their results, either way. Thinking here is to work on their site until I'm satisfied the whole system works as expected. Then walk away and let the others do their own analysis, measurements, data collection and reporting.
3 experienced EmDrive builders & testers come to mind. Major qualification is they have good credibility in the EmDrive world. Two have agreed to work with me. Will talk with the other at IAC 2019, where he is presenting a paper.
Would suggest all measuring the same thrust will stop the doubts and give the theory guys hard data to work from.
That said, who out there can come up with examples of how Roger may have fooled himself and the data he measured is not thrust from his Flight Thruster?
Hand waving statement are not how to do this. Study his test rig and his test protocol. Where did he get it wrong? What is causing the thrust signatures that follow the direction, Up or Down, the small end of the Flight Thruster is pointing? -
#1424 by Mark7777777 on 07 Sep, 2019 05:35
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Using the paper Roger has placed into the public domain, my plan is to build a replica of the SPR Flight Thruster, Rf system, freq tracking system and Roger's test Rig. I have Roger's permission to do this.
Will then offer this package to others to do their own testing and post their results, either way. Thinking here is to work on their site until I'm satisfied the whole system works as expected. Then walk away and let the others do their own analysis, measurements, data collection and reporting.
3 experienced EmDrive builders & testers come to mind. Major qualification is they have good credibility in the EmDrive world. Two have agreed to work with me. Will talk with the other at IAC 2019, where he is presenting a paper.
Would suggest all measuring the same thrust will stop the doubts and give the theory guys hard data to work from.
That said, who out there can come up with examples of how Roger may have fooled himself and the data he measured is not thrust from his Flight Thruster?
Hand waving statement are not how to do this. Study his test rig and his test protocol. Where did he get it wrong? What is causing the thrust signatures that follow the direction, Up or Down, the small end of the Flight Thruster is pointing?
If the whole thing works as specified, I wonder if anyone can calculate how much electricity would need to be given to it to make the whole thing levitate? I think that may gain a lot more worldwide attention than a chart?
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#1425 by Alex_O on 08 Sep, 2019 12:11
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2. We place a test body next to it, a small-sized solar sail. This is a black body. A sail absorbs some photons without reflection. And begins to move. Amazing! The total photon momentum in the system has not changed.
False, if photons were absorbed, then there are no longer photons moving in the direction that the sail now is moving. The net momentum of the remaining, non-absorbed photons is equal magnitude but opposite direction to the momentum that has been absorbed by the sail.
Most of the rest of your post is extrapolation from this mistake.
Thank. I made a mistake using the term "photon momentum". The correct term is the "total momentum in the system". Of course, the sail absorbed some of the photons. But the law of conservation of energy will tell us that the sail will become hotter, and will dump the received energy from photons in the form of IR radiation. IR photons can also fly 13 billion light years and reach the edge of the universe. In the operational area of our test tube (universe), the total momentum will be zero. I do not see a fundamental error in these constructions.
I repeat once again - a rocket with a black sail makes a move due to the energy of internal forces, but the total momentum of the universe has not changed (is it equal to zero?).
(I also remember that, for example, when a car travels on the surface of planet Earth, it transmits momentum to the planet, or when a rocket starts from a cosmodrome, it transmits momentum to the Earth, which slightly changes the planet’s orbit around the Sun. But it seems to me that the total momentum in the system By name, the universe remains unchanged (am I not mistaken? in these examples).
The idea that Emdrive can fly in the universe due to the energy of internal forces is criticized by school physics teachers for violating the law of conservation of momentum. Maybe the fact is that the correct calculation of the balance of the impulse should be carried out taking into account the size of the universe? (This will immediately remove a lot of taboos!)
I came up with an example with a gun, and also made a mistake. Of course, the motion of the center of mass will not change. But I wanted to show that a bullet - while it flies in zero gravity, in a vacuum, from a pistol to a bucket - at this point in time, the bullet does not belong to the physical system of the gun-bucket. That gun-bucket system is actually an open system. (This needs to be discussed separately, for example, how to come up with a tricky trick that essentially connects the center of mass of the bucket gun with a certain remote center of mass (galaxies?) And allows the gun to make local motions relative to the more general (galactic) center of mass.
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Why did I start this conversation. I see that the idea of creating any stellar engine contains deep contradictions. The law of conservation of momentum is very interfering! But I (the engineer) was taught to show flexible creative thinking in solving engineering and inventive problems. I was taught to solve inventive problems, to overcome technical (engineering) contradictions. There are 40 typical techniques for resolving technical inconsistencies. One of them sounds something like this - mentally increase (decrease) the size of the system by a billion times. Another technique recommends is to separate the processes in your system in time and space.
In engineering, you can find a million examples (in patents) where these two methods (out of 40) are used to solve the problem, to eliminate technical contradictions.
Therefore, I look at Emdrive, I see technical contradictions and noticed that Emdrive uses strange "bullets" (Photons). What is the key to understanding the idea of building a stellar engine on the example of Emdrive should be sought in nature, the device "photon". That is why I came up with the idea of calculating the Emdrive momentum based on the size of the universe.
I would also like to draw your attention to the fact that the closed box for photons (in the form of the Emdrive microwave resonator) - that this contains a very interesting technical, engineering and physical contradiction. And this is very good!
Need to prove! that the copper box for photons cannot be closed box, in principle. And then the developers of stellar engines will no longer quarrel with physics in general.
How to prove? Maybe you can find at least one point on the inner surface of the resonator where there is a strange dark place (where there are no photons) and immediately shout “wow”? . Well, there are angles in the cone, there are troubles with the diameter of the waveguides and the EM wavelength, if you build - attention, this seems to be an idea - like the equivalent surface of Emdrive (somehow through "photons", I don’t know how) then this surface will turn out to be " box with a hole. " Which automatically proves the thesis about an open system.
(I read about waveguides, about waveguide equivalent circuits as a picture of a frame antenna in which there are many frames that merge into a solid surface. And there are points in the waveguides where you can drill a hole (safe for microwave radiation)
Thank. Too long post turns out, sorry.
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#1426 by JohnFornaro on 08 Sep, 2019 13:48
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...The law of conservation of energy will tell us that the sail will become hotter, and will dump the received energy from photons in the form of IR radiation. IR photons can also fly 13 billion light years...
Just driving by here real quick like.
That you go on with the irrelevant observation that the IR photons can fly off some 13BLY, indicates that you haven't properly considered meberbs' admonition above:2. We place a test body next to it, a small-sized solar sail. This is a black body. A sail absorbs some photons without reflection. And begins to move. Amazing! The total photon momentum in the system has not changed.
False, if photons were absorbed, then there are no longer photons moving in the direction that the sail now is moving. The net momentum of the remaining, non-absorbed photons is equal magnitude but opposite direction to the momentum that has been absorbed by the sail.
In a way, you're distracting yourself with irrelevancies. -
#1427 by chazemz on 08 Sep, 2019 14:33
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Alex-0
Would it not be better for you to add gravity to your gun and bucket.If the gun and bucket are enclosed we can call it "the system" If the system is placed on some scales it will have a weight. The gun is fired and the bullet leaves the barrel of the gun. As you have stated ,the bullet does not interact with the bucket when in flight. You can now ask the following.
Since the bullet does not interact with the system when in flight, the weight of the system will change for this moment.
If the weight changes it follows that the mass must change since the force of gravity remains constant.
If the mass changes, does the centre of mass change? -
#1428 by Alex_O on 08 Sep, 2019 15:38
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Alex-0
Would it not be better for you to add gravity to your gun and bucket.If the gun and bucket are enclosed we can call it "the system" If the system is placed on some scales it will have a weight. The gun is fired and the bullet leaves the barrel of the gun. As you have stated ,the bullet does not interact with the bucket when in flight. You can now ask the following.
Since the bullet does not interact with the system when in flight, the weight of the system will change for this moment.
If the weight changes it follows that the mass must change since the force of gravity remains constant.
If the mass changes, does the centre of mass change?
Hi Chazemz!
If I add gravity to the system, I will immediately get an example of an open system. Amazing I took a box with thick walls, put a pistol, a bullet and a bucket in it, and after adding gravity, this system became open. I don’t know if you will like my evidence, but if you mentally imagine the physical phenomenon of gravity as a result of a certain physical process of the movement of particles of gravitons in nature (I don’t know what it is), then I will immediately mentally see how gravitons fly in a box with thick walls from outside (for example, from the center of the universe), fly through the walls of the box and .. this box becomes a completely open system where the exact description of the physical model (with gravitons) can be described by a system of equations with an infinitely large set variables. So, let's get without gravity?
Please note, I came up with a pistol with bullets that discuss the problem of Emdrive, where there is a gun (microwave source), there are bullets (microwave photons, in general, these are strange things) and there is a target bucket of a good microwave resonator.
The bullet was replaced with a photon, they made a very important conclusion. A photon (like a bullet) when it flies from a pistol to a target - at this point in time exists by itself.
And when the photon (bullet) flies onto the target (bucket) and creates radiation pressure - it will be the Force that acts in this brief moment on the target from the side of the "universe". And the gun, as it were, "nothing to do with it."
Comment. After adding gravity, the effects of general relativity immediately appear in the box with photons. Time dilation, gravitational curvature of bullet / photon trajectories. If this box is placed on an accurate scale, they will measure the increase in the weight of the box due to the "GR force" (a small value of the order of 10-10) This makes Emdrive an open system, where the task of calculating the total momentum immediately goes beyond the scope of school physics. -
#1429 by meberbs on 08 Sep, 2019 16:34
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This makes Emdrive an open system, where the task of calculating the total momentum immediately goes beyond the scope of school physics.
No, gravity still obeys conservation of momentum. The momentum gained by the force of gravity of the bucket, gun, and bullets is equal and opposite to that obtained by the planet, star or whatever is generating the gravitational field. include the source of the gravitational field, and your system is closed again (just like how in your previous post you redundantly said 4 different ways that if you add up the momentum of everything it still stays balanced.) You don't get anything special or useful out of adding gravity.
The only thing gravity does is apply a force to the gun, bucket and bullets towards the source of the gravity. The force is applied just as well to the bullets while they are in flight, so it changes nothing there. It works just as well with photons, because gravitational redshift and blueshift are what changing momentum of photons looks like. (Though the equivalent mass-energy of the photons is small, and the time of flight from one end of the cavity to the other is short, so this is not an effect you usually have to think about.) -
#1430 by Alex_O on 08 Sep, 2019 17:20
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...The law of conservation of energy will tell us that the sail will become hotter, and will dump the received energy from photons in the form of IR radiation. IR photons can also fly 13 billion light years...
Just driving by here real quick like.
That you go on with the irrelevant observation that the IR photons can fly off some 13BLY, indicates that you haven't properly considered meberbs' admonition above:2. We place a test body next to it, a small-sized solar sail. This is a black body. A sail absorbs some photons without reflection. And begins to move. Amazing! The total photon momentum in the system has not changed.
False, if photons were absorbed, then there are no longer photons moving in the direction that the sail now is moving. The net momentum of the remaining, non-absorbed photons is equal magnitude but opposite direction to the momentum that has been absorbed by the sail.
In a way, you're distracting yourself with irrelevancies.
Thank! JohnFornaro !.
I well understood the answer of meberbs and understood the error in the way I used the term photon momentum. It is necessary to use the term total momentum in the system.
The sail absorbed some of the photons and flew. Photons gave him their impulse as a runner passes a baton. The bulb remained motionless. I mentally held the X axis horizontally and projected onto the X axis the momentum of all the bodies in the system: a bulb, photons, sail. The sail now also carries an impulse with it, it received its portion of energy from a light bulb and it has an impulse p = mv. Тhe sail is now moving with acceleration (while the light is shining). But my calculation showed that the total momentum in the system is zero. What does it mean? -
#1431 by Alex_O on 08 Sep, 2019 17:43
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Thank you, I mentally built a good superconducting resonator with a diameter of 3 meters with a Q= 108 with vertical walls. And mentally I saw how an EM photon (which flew horizontally) made 108 reflections (between vertical walls) and traveled a path equal to 1 light second. At the same time, due to GR, photon decreases to the bottom of the resonator by 420 mm (depends on the angle of gravitational curvature on the surface of the earth). I mentally heard a boom! the photon “fell” from a height of 420 mm and transmitted a little E = mgh to the resonator. Then I counted the total mass of photons.This makes Emdrive an open system, where the task of calculating the total momentum immediately goes beyond the scope of school physics.
(Though the equivalent mass-energy of the photons is small, and the time of flight from one end of the cavity to the other is short, so this is not an effect you usually have to think about.)
In addition, vertical walls were also problematic. On the vertical walls was also a problem. The angle of departure / reflection from one (for example, the left wall) is not equal to the angle of arrival of the photon on the right wall. As a result, the cavity walls will receive a different momentum from each photon, and an unbalanced pulse is summed along the vertical axis. The resonator will fly in the direction of the center of the planet with additional acceleration. Amazing The effects of general relativity conveyed a small portion of energy into the closed cavity of Emdrive, which means that Emdrive is an open system. I called it - the power of general relativity, you can use it in Overt's maneuver to accelerate a rocket. -
#1432 by Alex_O on 08 Sep, 2019 18:19
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This makes Emdrive an open system, where the task of calculating the total momentum immediately goes beyond the scope of school physics.
No, gravity still obeys conservation of momentum. The momentum gained by the force of gravity of the bucket, gun, and bullets is equal and opposite to that obtained by the planet, star or whatever is generating the gravitational field.
Thank you, I completely agree with you, but I remember that we may know the problems in systems with fast movements / switching. That gravitational forces do not work faster than the speed of light. According to the generally accepted consensus. But within the framework of the famous consensus, there is no good idea how to build an engine for flying to the stars.
When I look at Emdrive, I see an interesting idea - that the force of radiation pressure on the cavity walls is the force that acts from the side. From the side of the universe. If this is so, then gravitational forces can be a force that acts on matter from the side of the universe. Then any Emdrive that seems to be a closed system is an absolutely open system. Where in the calculations of the total momentum of any closed box with photons - you need to think and look more widely.
For example, what happens in the universe if a “free photon” is caught in a box? I read about the Nobel Prize for studying the behavior of a microwave photon in an EM resonator with Q = 1011. There are interesting things there. -
#1433 by meberbs on 08 Sep, 2019 19:52
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I called it - the power of general relativity, you can use it in Overt's maneuver to accelerate a rocket.
I assume you mean Oberth maneuver, and what you just described is not that.
The energy of photons in a cavity comes from some on-board power source, and the mass of the on-board power source is reduced by an equivalent amount in the process. It does not matter whether you leave the mass in the battery, or convert it to photons in the cavity, the total change in momentum of your device due to gravitational forces won't change.When I look at Emdrive, I see an interesting idea - that the force of radiation pressure on the cavity walls is the force that acts from the side. From the side of the universe.
This statement is nonsensical. You keep trying to jump from "standard physics works" to "but maybe magic happens."
There is nothing that would suddenly transfer momentum to some far off galaxy, and if there was, we could use it for time travel. The speed of light limit is not arbitrary. -
#1434 by oyzw on 09 Sep, 2019 00:04
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Hello, Mr. TT, wish you all the best. I remember you said last year that you cooperated with a company in Australia to build a large EMDRIVE, but there is no new news.
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#1435 by TheTraveller on 09 Sep, 2019 03:01
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Have started the process to build 4 replicas of the SPR Flight Thruster, Rf system, resonant frequency tracking system & test rig.
Rf system will be a 100W Rf amp with RS485 comms, via USB adapter, that allows real time measurement of forward & reverse power plus adjustment of output power in +- 1dBm steps. Frequency will be supplied from a USB controlled Rf generator. Both will be connected to a laptop PC running a control program I developed some time ago. Additionally the serial link from the scale will be connected to the laptop via a RS232 to USB adapter.
Expected thrust is around 35mN or 3.5g at 100W, which should easily swamp and other non real thrust signals.
PLUS my 3 verifiers have agreed to work with me on this program. Will be meeting with them & Roger in late Oct to finalize the verification process. -
#1436 by TheTraveller on 09 Sep, 2019 03:16
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Hello, Mr. TT, wish you all the best. I remember you said last year that you cooperated with a company in Australia to build a large EMDRIVE, but there is no new news.
Hi Oyzw,
Not an Australia company. We are still testing our Momentum Transfer Drive. Never easy nor happens at the expected timeline. Good progress toward TRL8 & flight test are being made.
Have you reviewed the SPR Flight Thruster engineering report Roger has released?
http://www.emdrive.com/flighthrusterreportissue2.pdf
It is an excellent detail rich technical engineering report that will enable other to build a replica of the SPR Flight Thruster, the RF system & test rig.
Please note how Roger used initial cavity thermal expansion to provide the initial acceleration, that causes differential Doppler shift on the 2 end plates, causing differential radiation pressure to be generated, which then triggers sustained cavity generated internal thrust.
In Jan 2015, Roger made it very clear this was a required precursor:
http://www.emdrive.com/EmDriveForceMeasurement.pdfQuoteThis note describes simple examples of test methods which will clarify experimental results.
The most important point to be made, is that to measure force, the cavity must experience acceleration.QuoteA number of methods have been used in the UK, the US and China to measure the forces produced by an EmDrive thruster.
In each successful case, the EmDrive force data has been superimposed on an increasing or decreasing background force, generated by the test equipment itself.
Indeed, in the UK when the background force changes were eliminated, in an effort to improve force measurement resolution, no EmDrive force was measured.
Would suggest that if many EmDrive experimenters had been aware of this precursor acceleration requirement before they started their test programs, they may have recorded a very different result. -
#1437 by meberbs on 09 Sep, 2019 04:11
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Would suggest that if many EmDrive experimenters had been aware of this precursor acceleration requirement before they started their test programs, they may have recorded a very different result.
You have suggested this countless times, yet you have yet to provide a definition for what acceleration is required, despite being asked repeatedly. No experiment is ever perfectly isolated, there inherently is always some small amount of heating, and small natural vibrations are always present. Therefore every experiment should have been good enough.
The reality is that thermal expansion is a source of error and Shawyer did not appear to remove it from his measurements, and his whole setup seems designed to maximize signal from error sources rather than real forces.
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#1438 by TheTraveller on 09 Sep, 2019 04:46
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Would suggest that if many EmDrive experimenters had been aware of this precursor acceleration requirement before they started their test programs, they may have recorded a very different result.
You have suggested this countless times, yet you have yet to provide a definition for what acceleration is required, despite being asked repeatedly. No experiment is ever perfectly isolated, there inherently is always some small amount of heating, and small natural vibrations are always present. Therefore every experiment should have been good enough.
The reality is that thermal expansion is a source of error and Shawyer did not appear to remove it from his measurements, and his whole setup seems designed to maximize signal from error sources rather than real forces.
When he altered the vertical position of the thruster, small end down or small end up, the direction of the thrust signal followed the direction the small end was pointing.
In both cases, the scale registered a slight initial weight increase as the cavity started to expand. Later on the scale either recorded a increased weight, small end pointed down, or a decreased weight, small end pointer up.
The reality is the initial thermal expansion provided the initial differential Doppler shift & initial differential radiation pressure, creating a Thrust force toward the big end, that triggered the internally generated & sustained Reaction force toward the small end.
Clearly you do not believe this happens. Your right.
Which is why I'm working to build 4 Flight Thruster systems, based on Roger's public domain data, and putting them into the hands of respected and experienced EmDrive builders/testers. Their openly published test data should form the start of positive thrust data, which may assist others deciding if Roger's theory is correct or if another theory needs to be developed to explain the expected positive experimental data from the 3 guys involved in the testing.
Please understand that never before has there been such detailed EmDrive engineering data, which will allow high fidelity replication of the Flight Thruster, the test rig & associated systems.
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#1439 by meberbs on 09 Sep, 2019 05:23
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When he altered the vertical position of the thruster, small end down or small end up, the direction of the thrust signal followed the direction the small end was pointing.
That slowly changing force? That is what is expected from pure thermal expansion, changing direction is possible depending on the setup details. So what you are actually saying is that there was no real force produced. Again, I am not going to waste my time trying to explain details to you when you refuse to respond to questions intended to explain what the word force means.
In both cases, the scale registered a slight initial weight increase as the cavity started to expand. Later on the scale either recorded a increased weight, small end pointed down, or a decreased weight, small end pointer up.The reality is the initial thermal expansion provided the initial differential Doppler shift & initial differential radiation pressure, creating a Thrust force toward the big end, that triggered the internally generated & sustained Reaction force toward the small end.
Force and reaction apply to different objects, not the same one. For example, photons push the cavity towards the big end, so the cavity pushes the photons towards the small end. If you are going to keep ignoring what these words mean, at least stop pretending that repeating them enough times will make you right.Which is why I'm working to build 4 Flight Thruster systems,
Like all of the other ones that you never built?deciding if Roger's theory is correct or if another theory needs to be developed to explain the expected positive experimental data from the 3 guys involved in the testing.
You are assuming that positive results are obtained. Based on the fact that the new data provides no significant differences in design to existing setups, there is no reason to expect results to suddenly appear. Also, Shawyer's theory is self-inconsistent, so it cannot explain anything. It has predicted the wrong direction of motion from day 1.
