Author Topic: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7  (Read 101590 times)

Offline jpo234

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #240 on: 07/11/2018 09:36 AM »
Could it be a fuel tank for the electric generator?

Why would that need vacuum insulation? This is a tank for something really cold.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #241 on: 07/11/2018 11:35 AM »
Could be a vacuum insulated LNG tank.
That's my guess as well.

Why would that need vacuum insulation? This is a tank for something really cold.
A vacuum insulated LNG tank could be used to power a natural gas electric generator.
« Last Edit: 07/11/2018 11:39 AM by Dave G »

Offline jpo234

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #242 on: 07/11/2018 11:47 AM »
Why would that need vacuum insulation? This is a tank for something really cold.
A vacuum insulated LNG tank could be used to power a natural gas electric generator.

I thought Nomadd made photos of their Diesel generator.

Edit: Found it:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43968.msg1794660#msg1794660
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43968.msg1795251#msg1795251
« Last Edit: 07/11/2018 11:50 AM by jpo234 »
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Dave G

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Offline speedevil

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #244 on: 07/11/2018 12:16 PM »
It's about 12 feet by 155 feet long.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Low-Pressure-Liquid-Nitrogen-Gas-Storage_60766287975.html As an example of what's commercially available. (I have not ever ordered massive cryogenic tanks from them and cannot warrant their quality :) )

Their 50*12 feet container weighs 45000kg, and leaks 0.16% of the contents per day without refrigeration.
If 'About 12 feet' could be 4150mm, 13.6 feet, then it's a pretty much exact match for the one weighing 140000kg, and leaking 0.0015%/day.


Offline jpo234

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #245 on: 07/11/2018 12:16 PM »
Is diesel confirmed?

https://www.lngworldnews.com/epa-approves-omniteks-caterpillar-c15-engine-conversion/

You quoted the EIS yourself: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43026.msg1685520#msg1685520

Quote
2.1.2.2 Control Center Area
Proposed facility and infrastructure construction at the control center area would include the following:
• Two launch control center buildings
• Two payload processing facilities
• Launch vehicle processing hangar
• Two RF transmitter/receivers
Generators and diesel storage facilities
• Roads, parking areas, fencing, security, lighting, and utilities
• A satellite fuels and gas storage facility
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #246 on: 07/11/2018 12:37 PM »
Could be a vacuum insulated LNG tank.
Do they ever pull a vacuum before filling these tanks for safety? Or use the vacuum to fill the tank instead of pumping?

The important idea is vacuum insulated.  The cryogenic holding tank is inside the outer tank.  Vacuum is the best insulator.  There would likely be some supports between the two shells, but with minimal contact and with low heat transfer properties.

Launch site piping is often vacuum jacketed, it does a great job but it's very expensive to have made and requires some maintenance.

Also, if a tank of this diameter was to go to full vacuum you would either see a thicker shell, or external reinforcing rings to keep the shell from imploding with the 14.7 psi on the outside.

Methane or LOx, one thing for sure, it doesn't look like a water tank.
SpaceX, just a few things planned for 2018: FH, Starlink Prototypes, Block 5, Dragon 2, Increased launch rate.

Offline SPITexas

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #247 on: 07/11/2018 01:25 PM »
Could be a vacuum insulated LNG tank.

At
Quote
about 12 feet by 155 feet long.
what would be the mass of methane, if filled?
I get somewhere around 500,000 pounds.

Here’s another photo of whatever that is.  It could be going to the LNG or Boca Chica we will see.

Offline jpo234

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #248 on: 07/11/2018 03:21 PM »
Here’s another photo of whatever that is.  It could be going to the LNG or Boca Chica we will see.

Looks very much like the Blue Origin tanks at the Cape:

« Last Edit: 07/11/2018 03:22 PM by jpo234 »
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #249 on: 07/11/2018 03:32 PM »
Here’s another photo of whatever that is.  It could be going to the LNG or Boca Chica we will see.

Looks very much like the Blue Origin tanks at the Cape:


Those are sitting on the same pedestals they just delivered the Boca Chica.
 The only prepared, cleaned up spot of ground big enough for one of those tanks is the lot between the solar array and dishes, right where the pedestals are, but it seems kind of excessive for generator fuel. Maybe our Cat guy will wander in and say if those engines can be methane powered. Even if the tank is mainly for Raptors, it might simplify logistics and reduce pollution to also use it for electric. I'm not sure if that really makes sense if they'd only have methane there close to a launch or firing, giving the chilling needs.
 Or, it could make perfect sense if the whole solar field, big generator setup might turn out to be mostly for chilling, since that's one thing commercial power probably couldn't handle out here.

 If they do put it there, I kind of hope it's just a temporary spot to store the empty tank. I can't say I'd be 100% thrilled to live one tank length away from 220 tons of methane. If it is just to store the tank, there might be another one coming for LOX since they have enough pedestals for two empty tanks.
« Last Edit: 07/11/2018 04:10 PM by Nomadd »

Offline Bananas_on_Mars

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #250 on: 07/11/2018 04:57 PM »
IIRC Elon mentioned that they want to test ISRU on a big scale soon. Maybe run the diesel generators for CO2 and electricity, use the energy from that + solar for hydrolysis of water, make methane via sabatier process. I think they don't have a location better suited for the task than Boca Chica. I'm not sure wether they would need some environmental impact study for this though.

Offline burger

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #251 on: 07/11/2018 05:36 PM »
[OT] I have the same guard piggy (in a sombrero)! Fun fact they make an awesome oinking noise when you squeeze them and are glow in the dark (until the sun fades them).



Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #252 on: 07/11/2018 06:33 PM »
 The tank was being routed through town an hour ago. I guess there's no way it could have made the turn from 511 to 4. It's not low to the ground like F9 stages and must be close to 16 feet tall, so it could take some time.
« Last Edit: 07/11/2018 06:39 PM by Nomadd »

Offline jpo234

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #253 on: 07/11/2018 06:54 PM »
The tank was being routed through town an hour ago. I guess there's no way it could have made the turn from 511 to 4. It's not low to the ground like F9 stages and must be close to 16 feet tall, so it could take some time.
Does this mean that the tank goes to the launch complex?
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #254 on: 07/11/2018 08:06 PM »
 The BFT has arrived.
 Turns out it's the LOX tank and is being stored there until the pad starts going in. (guckyfan guessed right)
 SpaceX doesn't really volunteer much, but they'll confirm things if you guess right. That seems to be an official policy around here.
« Last Edit: 07/11/2018 11:13 PM by Nomadd »

Offline guckyfan

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #255 on: 07/11/2018 08:10 PM »
I guess this would only be a temporary storage area. Once they have the needed concrete slab at the pad they would relocate?

Offline docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #256 on: 07/11/2018 08:56 PM »
Guess locals should be on the lookout for more BFT's, just in case SpaceX is starting "Phase 1" of a tank farm for BFS hops.
DM

Offline SPITexas

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #257 on: 07/11/2018 09:29 PM »
The BFT has arrived.
 Turns out it's the LOX tank and is being stored there until the pad starts going in. (guckyfan guessed right)
 SpaceX doesn't really tell you anything, but they will confirm things if you guess right. That seems to be an official policy around here.

That’s sounds about right
And it also took me a minute  to know what BFT means from don. Lol.  Big Freakin tank or big F’n tank. Love  the nicknames came from BFRocket and BFSpaceship very smart. Well now we wait I believe there could be more on the way.
« Last Edit: 07/11/2018 09:39 PM by SPITexas »

Offline biosehnsucht

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #258 on: 07/11/2018 09:43 PM »
Not to be confused with the Big "Falcon" Tanker, the eventual purpose built tanker variant of the BFR upper stage (or another way to put it, BFS variant) ;)

Offline jpo234

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 7
« Reply #259 on: 07/11/2018 09:45 PM »
Well now we wait I believe there could be more on the way.

That's a pretty save bet. LOX without fuel is a little bit pointless. The interesting question is: What fuel? RP1 or LCH4, Merlin or Raptor...
« Last Edit: 07/11/2018 09:47 PM by jpo234 »
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

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