Author Topic: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)  (Read 182023 times)

Offline brickmack

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #300 on: 11/19/2019 04:27 pm »
On a unrelated note, does the SNC lander look like a re-purposed upper stage?

Getting a smidge off topic, but it seems to me like SNC is building up a lot of tech that looks rather like what'd be needed for a reusable launch vehicle. We know they're building RCS-to-upper stage-class engines (VORTEX), which they're actively marketing. There was a mention of an inflatable device they're developing for ULA to recover upper stages. Dream Chaser gives them reentry/aerodynamics and autonomous horizontal landing experience, this lander will likely give them experience operating an integrated cryogenic stage, deep throttling, propulsive landing, etc. Maybe this actually is an SNC upper stage-derivative

Offline theinternetftw

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #301 on: 11/19/2019 11:36 pm »
Getting a smidge off topic, but it seems to me like SNC is building up a lot of tech that looks rather like what'd be needed for a reusable launch vehicle. We know they're building RCS-to-upper stage-class engines (VORTEX), which they're actively marketing. There was a mention of an inflatable device they're developing for ULA to recover upper stages. Dream Chaser gives them reentry/aerodynamics and autonomous horizontal landing experience, this lander will likely give them experience operating an integrated cryogenic stage, deep throttling, propulsive landing, etc. Maybe this actually is an SNC upper stage-derivative

I don't know about reusable, but looking at the sizing (remember, this is for SNC's small payloads lander), Virgin Orbit has talked about a third stage in a way that sounds like they're shopping for one, not building it themselves.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #302 on: 11/20/2019 09:17 am »
On a unrelated note, does the SNC lander look like a re-purposed upper stage?

Getting a smidge off topic, but it seems to me like SNC is building up a lot of tech that looks rather like what'd be needed for a reusable launch vehicle. We know they're building RCS-to-upper stage-class engines (VORTEX), which they're actively marketing. There was a mention of an inflatable device they're developing for ULA to recover upper stages. Dream Chaser gives them reentry/aerodynamics and autonomous horizontal landing experience, this lander will likely give them experience operating an integrated cryogenic stage, deep throttling, propulsive landing, etc. Maybe this actually is an SNC upper stage-derivative
SNC were partners with Moon Express last I heard, but their lander doesn't look anything like MX1. I'm starting to thing SNC are going it alone, given their resources they don't really need a partner.

Offline GWH

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #303 on: 11/25/2019 07:49 pm »
https://twitter.com/NASA/status/1199032506361753600

NASA MSFC shares a concept for a lunar rover lander.
The whole 80+ page paper can be downloaded here: https://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/news/news/releases/2019/nasa-shares-mid-sized-robotic-lunar-lander-concept-with-industry.html

It's quite interesting to see the difference between commercial landers and this concept.  This concept at a glance looks to be a bespoke piece of equipment designed solely around one rover chassis in particular and ground level deployment. Commercial offerings take a one size fits all top mount approach in general, proposing either ramps or cranes to lower the rover.

Offline FiniteBurn

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #304 on: 11/25/2019 11:25 pm »
It's quite interesting to see the difference between commercial landers and this concept.  This concept at a glance looks to be a bespoke piece of equipment designed solely around one rover chassis in particular and ground level deployment. Commercial offerings take a one size fits all top mount approach in general, proposing either ramps or cranes to lower the rover.

That's because it was originally designed solely around a rover. It was originally part of Resource Prospector and a potential CPL for EM-2. You can read some of its mission design history here: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=20190001933&hterms=lunar+pallet+lander&qs=N%3D0%26Ntk%3DAll%26Ntt%3Dlunar%2520pallet%2520lander%26Ntx%3Dmode%2520matchallpartial%26Nm%3D123%7CCollection%7CNASA%2520STI%7C%7C17%7CCollection%7CNACA



Online yg1968

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #305 on: 11/26/2019 01:59 am »
Article by Jeff Foust on CLPS:
https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3837/1

Onramp awards highlights:


Presentation on CLPS and lunar landers:

« Last Edit: 01/18/2021 02:49 am by yg1968 »

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #306 on: 11/26/2019 05:18 am »
Enhanced image of the lander, so we can see what the thing looks like!
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline GWH

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #307 on: 11/26/2019 05:55 am »
The lander is really neat. I am about 1/3 way through the paper currently.

They state that the primary design constraint was to keep it low cost,  so they didn't worry about mass or a fault tolerant design. Manufacturing tolerances were to be kept loose to reduce inspections.

They went as far as to build the structure out of folded and riveted sheet metal to minimize costs.

The majority of dV in braking is performed by a Solid Rocket Motor that gets ejected after burn out,  then the smaller landing thrusters take over. So basically a crasher stage.
« Last Edit: 11/26/2019 06:02 am by GWH »

Offline su27k

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #308 on: 01/10/2020 03:14 am »
NASA postpones procurement of lander for VIPER lunar rover

Quote
HONOLULU — NASA has delayed the release of a task order that’s part of its commercial lunar lander program for the delivery of a rover at the south pole of the moon, a decision some lander companies have quietly welcomed.

Offline GWH

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #309 on: 02/06/2020 01:12 am »
I can't find a dedicated thread for Astrobotic so I'll put this here:



Interview with John Thorton CEO of Astrobotic. Pretty general with no real standouts but quite interesting nonetheless.
FYI it's a podcast not a true video.

Offline su27k

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #310 on: 02/08/2020 04:11 am »
Industry puzzled by NASA withdrawal of CLPS task order

Quote
NASA withdrew without explanation last week a task order for its commercial lunar lander services program, frustrating many of the companies involved.

According to several industry sources, NASA withdrew late Jan. 31 a task order designated 19C for the Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) program. The task orders serve as requests for proposal for those companies who have CLPS contracts, inviting them to submit bids for carrying out the missions defined in the task order using their landers.

@nasawatch has an explanation:

https://twitter.com/NASAWatch/status/1223645524177440768

https://twitter.com/NASAWatch/status/1223647270807183360

Offline brickmack

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #311 on: 02/26/2020 05:35 pm »
I don't think I've seen anything posted here on Deep Space System's lander yet. Found this page: https://www.deepspacesystems.com/clps with some renders, a data sheet, and a users guide for their "Small Lunar Lander". Apparently there is also going to be at least a "Medium Lunar Lander", but no info on that

Offline jarmumd

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #312 on: 02/26/2020 07:00 pm »
I don't think I've seen anything posted here on Deep Space System's lander yet. Found this page: https://www.deepspacesystems.com/clps with some renders, a data sheet, and a users guide for their "Small Lunar Lander". Apparently there is also going to be at least a "Medium Lunar Lander", but no info on that

So during a telecon about the Lunar Terrain Vehicle, there were questions about what size landers would be available.  Not just their payload capacity, but the deck space (in other words, is there only a small amount of room and the LTV has to fold like the Apollo rover?).  The answer was basically tell us what you need, and we will ask that of CLPS.  So it's likely the there will not be a lot of definition of larger CLPS landers until the payloads get better defined.

Offline theinternetftw

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #313 on: 02/26/2020 11:57 pm »
Local copy of the user guide, infosheet, and media for posterity.

The User Guide is interesting, looks to be as delivered to NASA to satisfy that Task Order.

Small Lunar Lander Payload:
  20kg if launched GTO (3 weeks to orbit insert)
  50kg if launched TLI (3-4 days to orbit insert)
  70kg if launched on a lunar ballistic capture trajectory (5 months to orbit insert)

Entire lander fits in an ESPA Grande volume.

Lands with six Aerojet Rocketdyne MR-107S engines.
« Last Edit: 02/27/2020 12:00 am by theinternetftw »

Offline GWH

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #314 on: 02/27/2020 06:06 pm »
That's a really cool little lander, especially with the golf cart wheels to turn it into a rover.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #315 on: 02/27/2020 07:24 pm »
That's a really cool little lander, especially with the golf cart wheels to turn it into a rover.
Not sure is up for exploring moon. Idea for moving lander to better location eg crater rim for solar power and comms.

Online yg1968

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #316 on: 04/08/2020 05:01 pm »
Quote from: Michael Sheetz
Later today NASA will award the next mission for one of the companies under the Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) program, people familiar tell me. The award is expected to be about $75 million.

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1247933672122187776

« Last Edit: 04/08/2020 05:07 pm by yg1968 »

Online yg1968

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« Last Edit: 04/08/2020 08:19 pm by yg1968 »

Online jstrotha0975

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Offline ncb1397

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Re: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS)
« Reply #319 on: 04/08/2020 08:29 pm »
Quote
Under the #Artemis program we're going to the Moon with all of America & today we announced the next commercial company helping make this vision a reality. Congrats @MastenSpace! They'll deliver 8 payloads to the Moon’s South Pole, carrying science & tech:

https://twitter.com/JimBridenstine/status/1247980645273473027

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