Author Topic: Commercial Lunar Payload Services Program (CLPS) (Read 182037 times)

theinternetftw · « **Reply #220 on:** 05/31/2019 05:07 pm »

Quote from: ncb1397 on 05/31/2019 05:02 pm

Astrobotic, OrbitBeyond and Intuitive Machines.

As OrbitBeyond is essentially TeamIndus, the "American Ingenuity" line given by Bridenstine five seconds after mentioning them is a little funny.

Back to the broadcast:

Astrobotic:
* Will be flying 14 NASA Payloads, plus 14 already-manifested payloads for this landing.
* Launch in June 2021, land in July.
* ~6ft high spacecraft, ~1400kg wet mass

rockets4life97 · « **Reply #221 on:** 05/31/2019 05:16 pm »

So, I take it this is a big loss for Blue Origin and Blue Moon?

GWH · « **Reply #222 on:** 05/31/2019 05:16 pm »

Congrats to the winners!

Things in the Moon Express office must be pretty quiet today...

Chris Bergin · « **Reply #223 on:** 05/31/2019 05:17 pm »

Orbit Beyond (the second screenshot) say they are aiming for September 2020.

theinternetftw · « **Reply #224 on:** 05/31/2019 05:24 pm »

Intuitive Machines:
* 2x as tall as Astrobotic's lander
* Their methalox engine is called Morehead (Probably after Rob Morehead, head of propulsion for Intuitive)
* One strategy for maintaining their propellant temp is shading themselves with their side-mounted solar panels
* No payload bay/deck, can mount payloads anywhere on the "barrel structure"
* 100kg of deliverable payload mass
* Launch in July 2021

Chris Bergin · « **Reply #225 on:** 05/31/2019 05:25 pm »

I like this guy!

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1134510183877681153

theinternetftw · « **Reply #226 on:** 05/31/2019 05:26 pm »

Quote from: Chris Bergin on 05/31/2019 05:17 pm

Orbit Beyond (the second screenshot) say they are aiming for September 2020.

September 27, 2020.

theinternetftw · « **Reply #227 on:** 05/31/2019 05:33 pm »

OrbitBeyond:
* ~5ft tall
* Payloads can be mounted on top, at mid-deck, and on "the bottom"
* Several NASA payloads, several commercial payloads
* Sending a demonstration rover with partner Ceres Robotics
* Lander currently named Z-01 ( Z for the Z-axis, as it's a lander :p ), will have a naming contest at some point
* As mentioned above, landing planned for September 27, 2020

ncb1397 · « **Reply #228 on:** 05/31/2019 05:37 pm »

Quote from: theinternetftw on 05/31/2019 05:33 pm

OrbitBeyond:
* ~5ft tall
* Payloads can be mounted on top, at mid-deck, and on "the bottom"
* Several NASA payloads, several commercial payloads
* Sending a demonstration rover with partner Ceres Robotics
* Lander currently named Z-01 ( Z for the Z-axis, as it's a lander :p ), will have a naming contest at some point
* As mentioned above, landing planned for September 27, 2020

I would add where they are going to your fact sheet. Mare Imbrium...29.52° N, 25.68° W to be exact.

theinternetftw · « **Reply #229 on:** 05/31/2019 05:41 pm »

From Q/A

Astrobotic: one payload customer wants to build laser comms to dramatically increase bandwidth between Earth/Moon
Astrobotic: has payloads representing eight nations

Intuitive: is using a NASA-developed laser landing system, but bringing a commercial landing system to test as a payload

OrbitBeyond: Bringing NASA payloads developed to understand how the spacecraft disturbs the environment upon landing

OrbitBeyond: Launching via a Falcon 9
Intuitive: "Guilty as charged, a SpaceX Falcon 9"

Astrobotic: "Assessing our launch options"

gongora · « **Reply #230 on:** 05/31/2019 05:46 pm »

Quote from: rockets4life97 on 05/31/2019 05:16 pm

So, I take it this is a big loss for Blue Origin and Blue Moon?

They are in a different size/payload class. They wouldn't be part of this round.

theinternetftw · « **Reply #231 on:** 05/31/2019 05:58 pm »

Astrobotic: First landing will be at Lacus Mortis. Selected a smooth, flat plain to prove out landing.

Intuitive: Two candidate landing locations: Oceanus Procellarum (The Sea of Storms), and Mare Serenitatis (The Sea of Serenity (not Tranquility as broadcast)). Latter is "just east" of Apollo 15 landing site, which was in Mare Imbrium.

OrbitBeyond: Landing in Mare Imbrium. 2km landing ellipse. "The vast lava plains of the Sea of Rains." Working with Brown University on assessing landing site.

Intuitive: Payload from Embry-Riddle, EagleCam, will eject from lander on descent, capture images of the landing itself

OrbitBeyond: Will have HD stereo cameras.

Dr. Z:
* LRO is supporting potential landing site analysis
* Larger landers ("bigger payloads as we grow stronger") might be a part of future CLPS requests
* Want to explore where we want to land in 2024 with CLPS landers first

theinternetftw · « **Reply #232 on:** 05/31/2019 06:08 pm »

From the Press Release:

Quote

Astrobotic of Pittsburgh has been awarded $79.5 million and has proposed to fly as many as 14 payloads to Lacus Mortis, a large crater on the near side of the Moon, by July 2021.

Intuitive Machines of Houston has been awarded $77 million. The company has proposed to fly as many as five payloads to Oceanus Procellarum, a scientifically intriguing dark spot on the Moon, by July 2021.

Orbit Beyond of Edison, New Jersey, has been awarded $97 million and has proposed to fly as many as four payloads to Mare Imbrium, a lava plain in one of the Moon’s craters, by September 2020.

theinternetftw · « **Reply #233 on:** 05/31/2019 06:32 pm »

Follow-on presser has started streaming: https://www.ustream.tv/embed/20995526?html5ui

GWH · « **Reply #234 on:** 05/31/2019 06:33 pm »

Quote from: theinternetftw on 05/31/2019 05:41 pm

Astrobotic: "Assessing our launch options"

Interesting, I had thought their plan was to launch on a Atlas V as co-manifested cargo on a Cygnus mission.

Phil Stooke · « **Reply #235 on:** 05/31/2019 06:46 pm »

Yes, but any company should always be exploring its launch options as the landscape changes.

I have to be a bit dubious about Intuitive saying it has two potential locations, Oceanus Procellarum or Mare Serenitatis. That's like saying they will land in the United States or Colombia. Something a bit more specific is called for. I hope that work has been done and the location is not just an afterthought.

AHA! (EDITED): a video on their website shows a landing site at Sulpicius Gallus in Serenitatis. It's a fascinating pyroclastic area where Apollo 17 crew observations and images show orange material on the surface, as in Taurus-Littrow.

Phil Stooke · « **Reply #236 on:** 05/31/2019 07:09 pm »

This is the Intuitive site. Don't know yet about the other possible site.

theinternetftw · « **Reply #237 on:** 05/31/2019 07:34 pm »

Presser:

Eric Berger: Odds of success?
NASA: High confidence. Don't doubt there will be challenges, but those challenges will be overcome.

Irene Klotz: Is 2020/2021 the earliest expected for any landings?
NASA: Yep.

Irene Klotz: Did you receive proposals from all 9 companies?
NASA: Received 8 proposals.

Jeff Foust: When will specific payloads be assigned?
NASA: Each vendor requested payloads from a list of available payloads. Also might create additional payloads.

Kenneth Chang: Details on payloads? How do they help 2024, especially since not landing at south pole?
NASA: First payloads selected from ready or near-ready payloads. Focus characterization of moon env and EDL.
NASA: Tried to make a first landing as easy as possible. Future will have specific suites of instruments, specific locations.
Intuitive: Lander has been designed with eye toward boots on the moon (e.g. methalox)
Astrobotic: Recently awarded a separate $10M contract for precision landing, precision landing has human applications.

Q: For the F9 launches, are those primary payloads or rideshare? For Astrobotic, how long can you wait to decide on LV?
Astrobotic: Will ride as a secondary payload. Partnership with ULA, and a relationship with SpaceX. Designed to fly on both.
OrbitBeyond: For this aggressive schedule (Q3 2020), LV is on critical path. Will be engaging with SpaceX. As selection has just happened, need to work to get on manifest.
Intuitive: Primary payload. Will have rideshares for others destined for SSO, S2 will drop those off, then do a GTO burn.

Bill Harwood: Beresheet pointed to lack of redundancy to ease development. Wondering about redundancy on your payloads.
Astrobotic: Focused on what specifically needs to be redundant. Areas where redundancy exists and where it was eschewed for cost.
Intuitive: One fault tolerant across electronics, avionics (if i heard correctly). Propulsion is single string.
OrbitBeyond: Mission duration is not long, thus can look at redundancy differently.

Dan Vergano, Buzzfeed News: What is the most risky area?
Astrobotic: Risk changes as we go through review and address issues. Can't share details. Are looking right now to add redundancy or improve reliability in certain areas.
OrbitBeyond: Descent is where we'll all be holding our breath.
Intuitive: Aggressive schedule for all. CLPS selected 9 vendors, but there aren't 9 lunar lander capable teams in the US. So team composition is critical. Next two years, the vendors who can field the teams that can land on the moon will do so. We took risks in choosing methalox, but did so intentionally.
Intuitive: Always a chance of recovery before powered descent. After that, everything has to work.

MIT Tech Review: (missed question - on milestones and future missions)
NASA: Milestones were chosen by vendors. We tried to make sure that their choices made sense.
NASA: On future missions, have already initiated next task order, which is just for a study, not a mission. Want to look at what capabilities, in terms of mobility (rovers) and landing capabilities. What you can do with a rover. Also ISRU. Looking for a "good cadence" of missions. Need mobility, need to go to and study several locations after landing. Hoping to build up to a cadence of a couple of missions a year. In 2023, 2024, maybe 3-4 missions a year.
Intuitive: CLPS program makes their dates. And they're crisp. If they say they'll release a task order at the end of the month, don't make plans after the 21st. That crispness is very appreciated.

Tim Fernholz, Quartz: How much NASA involvement, inspections, etc? How many folks on the NASA CLPS team?
NASA: When I say we're buying a ride, I mean we're buying a ride. We are not going to be doing traditional insight/oversight. We'll work with providers on when to be at certain meetings as a customer. And we'll talk about retiring risk. But not our standard process as NASA. We'll learn how to do this as we go along. At HQ, it's <cuts out - I think he says "just me">. At JSC, less than 7 people. It's a new model for NASA. Won't send over a team of engineers. Might have one guy there at the review.
NASA: We learned a lot about this with Commercial Crew. But there are no humans at stake here, so we can take more risks. And we've learned through CRS/CCP about working with commercial vendors, and knowing when we can take a lighter load or have a lighter hand.
Astrobotic: During CATALYST, the amount of control really felt like the right approach. That has continued.
Astrobotic: We set up review processes in house and share that with NASA to give them confidence that we're doing things the right way.
Intuitive: NASA understands they won't get as much insight into vehicle systems, but they want to know we will safely handle their payloads.
OrbitBeyond: NASA does want to know we can integrate their payloads properly. We're the taxi.

Q: How many European customers? Could you land a 300kg rover?
OrbitBeyond: Are engaged with European scientists, are looking at one European payload, a retroreflector. Want to expand international customer base.
OrbitBeyond: 500kg payload on second mission.
Intuitive: In discussions with the Italian Space Agency. With methalox propulsion, we're designed to scale.
Astrobotic: Have three payloads from Europe already. Another one that's not yet public. Next lander design, Griffin, is twice as large as Peregrine. Plan to have a 300kg lander that can sit on the top of Griffin.
NASA: Have a European contribution even on one of the first NASA payloads. Expect that you'll hear more in the coming months, once certain agreements are made.

Pittsburgh Business Times: Had heard that CLPS is $2.6B, how much of that was awarded here?
NASA: $2.6B is over the entire life of the program. This award is around $260M.

Q: The South Pole, when will there be missions/instruments to sample the water ice?
NASA: Currently discussing when to release a task order on that and what instruments to take. Also working on an in-house NASA rover in 2022/2023. Want to go there several times with several science instruments, go to several locations in that area. Also looking at the first lunar sample return missions. Stay tuned.

Q: Asian companies that you'll be partnering with?
Astrobotic: We have 8 nations, including the US. Mexico, Hungary, Japan, Canada, Chile.
Intuitive: Have been courting customers. Excited to see how much we can grow the non-NASA side of our business.
OrbitBeyond: In dialog with customers in Japan, China, Europe, other places in Asia.
NASA: We have very strong relationships between the various space agencies. In discussions with JAXA. Signed an agreement with KASI (Korea Astronomy and Space Science Institute) specifically about flying payloads with CLPS.

Jeff Foust: How far along are the companies in developing the landers?
Astrobotic: Completed PDR last year. Heading into CDR. Have a small handful of kg still available to customers, about to close the manifest very soon.
OrbitBeyond: <cut out> In process to close funding for the first landing. Technically speaking, we are on schedule.
Intuitive: Currently firing the flight engine on flight software w/ the flight processor. Fired last week, firing again next week. Fully funded. Milestone coming up of an architecture review with NASA.

End of presser.

Edit: grammar, clarity

TrevorMonty · « **Reply #238 on:** 05/31/2019 08:34 pm »

There is no shortage of small commercial lunar landers, now five landings scheduled in next two years.

SpaceIL should be ready in couple years for another attempt.

PT Scientists are also aiming for 2021 landing.

https://www.lzh.de/en/publications/pressreleases/2019/moonrise-bringing-3d-printing-to-the-moon

theinternetftw · « **Reply #239 on:** 06/01/2019 12:20 am »

Cross-posting a response to the award from Masten:

Quote from: FutureSpaceTourist on 05/31/2019 09:34 pm

Quote
Yeah, I'm kind of bummed that the company that has more VTVL rocket flights under its belt than every other company in history put together didn't get a contract...

https://twitter.com/dmasten/status/1134572819054882816

Quote
Not surprising to be honest. Our lander was too much for the payloads on this task order. The payloads for the next task order are rumored to be a better fit for our lander.