Quote from: MarcPol on 11/29/2018 07:10 pmQuote from: woods170 on 11/29/2018 06:36 pmNo Blue Origin.Hmmm....They noted these are only capability and services contracts- each company will be responsible for securing their own launch vehicle to actually get to the moon. If Blue Origin, SpaceX, ULA, Arianespace, etc are all options to get to the moon for the commercial services providers, there will likely be a fair amount of competition to get the launch contracts.They have to use domestic launch vehicles and domestic spacecraft. Right now they can use SpaceX, ULA, NGIS, and RocketLab. Soon Virgin and Blue as well.
Quote from: woods170 on 11/29/2018 06:36 pmNo Blue Origin.Hmmm....They noted these are only capability and services contracts- each company will be responsible for securing their own launch vehicle to actually get to the moon. If Blue Origin, SpaceX, ULA, Arianespace, etc are all options to get to the moon for the commercial services providers, there will likely be a fair amount of competition to get the launch contracts.
No Blue Origin.Hmmm....
Quote from: Lars-J on 11/29/2018 07:36 pmQuote from: PhotoEngineer on 11/29/2018 06:22 pmMasten Space SystemsAstroboticLockheed MartinMoon ExpressDeep Space SystemsFireflyDraper / iSpaceIntuitive MachinesOrbit BeyondOne of these is not like the other. Why was an aerospace giant included?I was thinking that Orbit Beyond was the odd man out. Can't find their website. Do they have one?edit: Their address is listed as Edison, New Jersey. Sort of small town - population of about 100,000. Shouldn't be hard to find their office?edit 2: Their one known employee, Jeff Patton (impressive resume btw), doesn't list Orbit Beyond on linkedIn and is listed as living in the Denver area. Anybody know if he still works at ULA and this is just a part time gig or what?
Quote from: PhotoEngineer on 11/29/2018 06:22 pmMasten Space SystemsAstroboticLockheed MartinMoon ExpressDeep Space SystemsFireflyDraper / iSpaceIntuitive MachinesOrbit BeyondOne of these is not like the other. Why was an aerospace giant included?
Masten Space SystemsAstroboticLockheed MartinMoon ExpressDeep Space SystemsFireflyDraper / iSpaceIntuitive MachinesOrbit Beyond
Quote from: ncb1397 on 11/29/2018 08:10 pmQuote from: Lars-J on 11/29/2018 07:36 pmQuote from: PhotoEngineer on 11/29/2018 06:22 pmMasten Space SystemsAstroboticLockheed MartinMoon ExpressDeep Space SystemsFireflyDraper / iSpaceIntuitive MachinesOrbit BeyondOne of these is not like the other. Why was an aerospace giant included?I was thinking that Orbit Beyond was the odd man out. Can't find their website. Do they have one?edit: Their address is listed as Edison, New Jersey. Sort of small town - population of about 100,000. Shouldn't be hard to find their office?edit 2: Their one known employee, Jeff Patton (impressive resume btw), doesn't list Orbit Beyond on linkedIn and is listed as living in the Denver area. Anybody know if he still works at ULA and this is just a part time gig or what?"OrbitBeyond has engaged TeamIndus for Lander engineering, Honeybee Robotics for payload integration, Advanced Space for mission management, Ceres Robotics for surface operations, and Apollo Fusion for future programs."TeamIndus is real player here, OrbitBeyond is probably way to bring them into a domestic competition.Japan's iSpace are also involved as partners with Draper.Lots of strategic partnerships going on, which is good thing. Newspace companies with no flight history partnering with well established aerospace companies. As example Moon Express on their own would be risking but with SNC's vast experience I'd give them better than 90% chance of successful first landing.
The Engineering team at OrbitBeyond is led by Jeff Patton, former Development ProgramSystems Engineering and Integration Manager at ULA.
Quote from: Lars-J on 11/29/2018 07:36 pmQuote from: PhotoEngineer on 11/29/2018 06:22 pmMasten Space SystemsAstroboticLockheed MartinMoon ExpressDeep Space SystemsFireflyDraper / iSpaceIntuitive MachinesOrbit BeyondOne of these is not like the other. Why was an aerospace giant included?Stand-in for RocketLab maybe?
Quote from: QuantumG on 11/29/2018 11:07 pmQuote from: Lars-J on 11/29/2018 07:36 pmQuote from: PhotoEngineer on 11/29/2018 06:22 pmMasten Space SystemsAstroboticLockheed MartinMoon ExpressDeep Space SystemsFireflyDraper / iSpaceIntuitive MachinesOrbit BeyondOne of these is not like the other. Why was an aerospace giant included?Stand-in for RocketLab maybe?I believe the companies in the list are lander providers who of course will have to partner with a launch vehicle provider. I’m not aware of Rocket Lab working on any lunar landers. However, I thought Firefly was only working on a small launch vehicle. I’m not familiar with any lander work from them.
Quote from: Markstark on 11/29/2018 11:16 pmQuote from: QuantumG on 11/29/2018 11:07 pmQuote from: Lars-J on 11/29/2018 07:36 pmQuote from: PhotoEngineer on 11/29/2018 06:22 pmMasten Space SystemsAstroboticLockheed MartinMoon ExpressDeep Space SystemsFireflyDraper / iSpaceIntuitive MachinesOrbit BeyondOne of these is not like the other. Why was an aerospace giant included?Stand-in for RocketLab maybe?I believe the companies in the list are lander providers who of course will have to partner with a launch vehicle provider. I’m not aware of Rocket Lab working on any lunar landers. However, I thought Firefly was only working on a small launch vehicle. I’m not familiar with any lander work from them.The picture NASA posted of Firefly's proposal is a Beta vehicle with an extra stage and an attached lander. We haven't heard any details about that - I thought they'd be contributing the SEP stage they've been talking about - but apparently they've at least drawn it up (I think this lander design is different from any of the others we've seen, but I'm not entirely sure). I have a feeling they're planning to use this contract to fund the Beta LV's development, by pitching themselves as an "all-up" solution.
Thomas Zurbuchen: So frankly what we tried to do on this one is go relatively broad. It makes no sense to us to go select out based on some criteria that we may come up with using our own development cycles to cut down the competition. We believe what should decide on the success and on the viability of each one of those partners should be how they deliver these services that we want. So we went with a really broad set of criteria that really asked questions about their overall viability as companies, their likelihood to be able to deliver these services, but we did not go into really deep depth relative to the technical capability. Because frankly, that's going to come next. When we're going to talk about the very tasks that are going to come our way.
Quote from: Craftyatom on 11/30/2018 12:08 amQuote from: Markstark on 11/29/2018 11:16 pmQuote from: QuantumG on 11/29/2018 11:07 pmQuote from: Lars-J on 11/29/2018 07:36 pmQuote from: PhotoEngineer on 11/29/2018 06:22 pmMasten Space SystemsAstroboticLockheed MartinMoon ExpressDeep Space SystemsFireflyDraper / iSpaceIntuitive MachinesOrbit BeyondOne of these is not like the other. Why was an aerospace giant included?Stand-in for RocketLab maybe?I believe the companies in the list are lander providers who of course will have to partner with a launch vehicle provider. I’m not aware of Rocket Lab working on any lunar landers. However, I thought Firefly was only working on a small launch vehicle. I’m not familiar with any lander work from them.The picture NASA posted of Firefly's proposal is a Beta vehicle with an extra stage and an attached lander. We haven't heard any details about that - I thought they'd be contributing the SEP stage they've been talking about - but apparently they've at least drawn it up (I think this lander design is different from any of the others we've seen, but I'm not entirely sure). I have a feeling they're planning to use this contract to fund the Beta LV's development, by pitching themselves as an "all-up" solution.Earth departure stage isn't SEP, looks more like a Alpha US.A rough calculation using this combination is 400-500kg to surface, thats lander mass+ payload.
In conjunction with our Beta launch vehicle and our partnership with Intuitive Machines, Firefly will provide an integrated lunar services offering, from the launch pad to the surface of the Moon.
Quote from: TrevorMonty on 11/30/2018 12:58 amQuote from: Craftyatom on 11/30/2018 12:08 amQuote from: Markstark on 11/29/2018 11:16 pmQuote from: QuantumG on 11/29/2018 11:07 pmQuote from: Lars-J on 11/29/2018 07:36 pmQuote from: PhotoEngineer on 11/29/2018 06:22 pmMasten Space SystemsAstroboticLockheed MartinMoon ExpressDeep Space SystemsFireflyDraper / iSpaceIntuitive MachinesOrbit BeyondOne of these is not like the other. Why was an aerospace giant included?Stand-in for RocketLab maybe?I believe the companies in the list are lander providers who of course will have to partner with a launch vehicle provider. I’m not aware of Rocket Lab working on any lunar landers. However, I thought Firefly was only working on a small launch vehicle. I’m not familiar with any lander work from them.The picture NASA posted of Firefly's proposal is a Beta vehicle with an extra stage and an attached lander. We haven't heard any details about that - I thought they'd be contributing the SEP stage they've been talking about - but apparently they've at least drawn it up (I think this lander design is different from any of the others we've seen, but I'm not entirely sure). I have a feeling they're planning to use this contract to fund the Beta LV's development, by pitching themselves as an "all-up" solution.Earth departure stage isn't SEP, looks more like a Alpha US.A rough calculation using this combination is 400-500kg to surface, thats lander mass+ payload.Agreed, that stage looks liquid, and using an Alpha second stage would (I assume) be much cheaper than a purpose-designed departure stage. As a launch vehicle, it looks great. As for the lander, I should've dug deeper. From Firefly's website: Quote from: Tom MarkusicIn conjunction with our Beta launch vehicle and our partnership with Intuitive Machines, Firefly will provide an integrated lunar services offering, from the launch pad to the surface of the Moon.I would assume that Firefly is doing the integration, launch, and transfer burn, then handing off to Intuitive for the coast, landing, and operations, since those are the areas the respective companies are known for.
Images of the eight landers and rover.