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Kistler/Orbital divorce
by
aero313
on 26 Sep, 2006 01:33
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I'm surprised no one else has started a thread on this. Space News is reporting that Orbital is terminating it's relationship with Kistler for COTS. I had heard similar rumors last week, but now it's public.
“We haven’t been able to agree on all the elements of the business plan so we will not be part of the program going forward,” Orbital Sciences spokesman Barron Beneski said Sept. 25. “And of course as a result we will not be investing the $10 million.”
More surprising, Kistler has dumped something like $600M into K1 to date and according to the article expects to need ANOTHER $600M ($207M from NASA and twice that much from investors) to execute COTS. WOW! I'll say they can't agree on the business plan!
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#1
by
NotGncDude
on 26 Sep, 2006 02:01
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aero313
- 25/9/2006 9:16 PM
More surprising, Kistler has dumped something like $600M into K1 to
date and according to the article expects to need ANOTHER $600M ($207M
from NASA and twice
that much from investors) to execute COTS.
Is this new $600M figure from Kistler or is it an estimate from a 3rd
party ? They were bought by Rocketplane so you'd think that the new
management would be more careful about costs.
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#2
by
Jim
on 26 Sep, 2006 02:24
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It is a Kistler estimate. Rocketplane management has nothing to do with it, their main subs are LM, NG and Aerojet. Basically Kistler doesn't build anything, they pay people to build things.
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#3
by
Chris Bergin
on 26 Sep, 2006 02:30
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aero313 - 26/9/2006 2:16 AM
I'm surprised no one else has started a thread on this.
We're more vehicles and engineering news media here, than we are business news media, but I appreciate the thread being started.
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#4
by
guidanceisgo
on 26 Sep, 2006 04:51
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Maybe we should move this thread to the private spaceflight area. COTS is big news in the private world. RPK doesn't seem to get the same press as Spacex. Maybe its a good think in this instance!
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#5
by
NotGncDude
on 26 Sep, 2006 13:31
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Jim - 25/9/2006 10:07 PM
It is a Kistler estimate. Rocketplane management has nothing to do with it, their main subs are LM, NG and Aerojet. Basically Kistler doesn't build anything, they pay people to build things.
And Draper Lab...
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#6
by
Chris Bergin
on 26 Sep, 2006 13:33
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guidanceisgo - 26/9/2006 5:34 AM
Maybe we should move this thread to the private spaceflight area. COTS is big news in the private world. RPK doesn't seem to get the same press as Spacex. Maybe its a good think in this instance!
Done.
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#7
by
vt_hokie
on 26 Sep, 2006 21:30
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ianmga - 26/9/2006 9:14 AM
And Draper Lab...
Is Honeywell involved in any way at this point?
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#8
by
NotGncDude
on 30 Apr, 2007 04:21
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Just saw this. I believe Honeywell is involved in supplying the IMU's.
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#9
by
JIS
on 30 Apr, 2007 09:28
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It looks like next bankruptcy is very close.
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#10
by
simonbp
on 30 Apr, 2007 12:32
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JIS - 30/4/2007 4:28 AM
It looks like next bankruptcy is very close.
Or a buyout by ATK...
Simon
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#11
by
space_dreamer
on 30 Apr, 2007 13:11
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I’ve always thought that Kistler was a really bad choice for cots. They already spent $500 million with out a single fight! What a sick joke! If only the ordinal $500 million had been invested into Xcor, Armadillo, Bristol Spaceplanes, Starchaser, Spacedev etc…
The second COTS prize (after SpaceX) should have gone to Spacedev or Tspace.
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#12
by
Jim
on 30 Apr, 2007 13:17
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space_dreamer - 30/4/2007 9:11 AM
I’ve always thought that Kistler was a really bad choice for cots. They already spent $500 million with out a single fight! What a sick joke! If only the ordinal $500 million had been invested into Xcor, Armadillo, Bristol Spaceplanes, Starchaser, Spacedev etc…
The second COTS prize (after SpaceX) should have gone to Spacedev or Tspace.
Xcor, Armadillo, Bristol Spaceplanes, Starchaser, T-space etc.. None of these had viable options
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#13
by
space_dreamer
on 30 Apr, 2007 20:27
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I meant for the investment that Kistler got before COTS. What was wrong with Tspace cots entry?
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#14
by
wannamoonbase
on 30 Apr, 2007 21:05
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space_dreamer - 30/4/2007 4:27 PM
I meant for the investment that Kistler got before COTS. What was wrong with Tspace cots entry?
It was private money, not tax payer. So what does it matter to any of us?
The fact that they were able to raise that much money, design a vehicle, acquire engines and partially build the K1 says a million percent more than any of those other guys with glossy pictures and grand schemes only.
The others might be possible but certainly not close and if they were cheap why not build them on their own?
I wish SpaceX and Kistler both the best of luck and I hope both succeed, as that could change the industry more than anything else.
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#15
by
docmordrid
on 01 May, 2007 00:56
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This was resolved shortly after the original story;
http://www.space.com/news/060926_cots_rocketplane.htmlRocketplane Kistler Says It Has New Strategic Partner in the Wings
WASHINGTON - Rocketplane Kistler President Randy Brinkley said Sept. 25 that the Oklahoma City-based company already has found another firm willing to replace Orbital Sciences Corp. as prime contractor for the K-1 reusable launch vehicle.
"We're very comfortable with the new partner and think it's a good fit," Brinkley said.
Brinkley declined to identify Rocketplane Kistler's new partner but said that the unnamed U.S. company would take over Orbital Sciences' systems engineering and integration role on the K-1 and make a strategic investment "equal to or greater" than the $10 million Orbital had planned to bring to the table.
http://hobbyspace.com/nucleus/index.php?itemid=2741Rocketplane Kistler and ATK Announce Agreement for K-1 Launch Vehicle and COTS Program
ATK Will Lead Vehicle Development, Vehicle Assembly, Integration and Test, and Launch and Landing Site Operations
Oklahoma City and Salt Lake City, November 8, 2006 – Rocketplane Kistler (RpK) and Alliant Techsystems (NYSE: ATK) announced today that ATK will become the lead contractor for RpK’s K-1 launch vehicle, which was recently awarded a Space Act Agreement by NASA for the Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) program. The K-1 is a fully reusable space transportation system designed to provide cost-effective and reliable transport of cargo and science payloads to and from the International Space Station (ISS).
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#16
by
Jim
on 01 May, 2007 01:29
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LM has taken over the vehicle assembly
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#17
by
Christine
on 01 May, 2007 02:00
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Somehow, all I suspect that they've taken over are the first round COTS payments...
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#18
by
NotGncDude
on 01 May, 2007 02:04
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Would it make sense for ATK to buy Kistler from Rocketplane and take over the development the vehicle? It would seem that it would give them an entry into this segment. I'm open to flame, as I'm clueless about these business issues.
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#19
by
NotGncDude
on 01 May, 2007 02:21
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Christine - 30/4/2007 10:00 PM
Somehow, all I suspect that they've taken over are the first round COTS payments...
This ain't no joke. There is a lot of people working hard for the K1 to flight. Sadly, those people cost money.
