Author Topic: Orbital ATK OmegA (NGL) Rocket UPDATES/DISCUSSION - Thread 2  (Read 13674 times)

Offline Lars-J

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A 4m fairing makes little sense if their third stage is 5m in diameter.  (BTW, are they building that stage in house or contracting it out?)

Offline russianhalo117

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A 4m fairing makes little sense if their third stage is 5m in diameter.  (BTW, are they building that stage in house or contracting it out?)
There is nothing stated publicly however they have facilities in the Mississippi Alluvial Plain, Arkansas River Valley and elsewhere in several regions with river access. The stage they show looks quite like a DCSS but there are no indication that ULA will build the stage. We ought to know more in the coming months and 2019. I guess OATK (NG) will need an OmegA Mariner ship as I down know how else they can transport it unless they build the stage at both launch sites.
« Last Edit: 04/20/2018 12:24 AM by russianhalo117 »

Offline Tomness

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There is nothing stated publicly however they have facilities in the Mississippi Alluvial Plain, Arkansas River Valley and elsewhere in several regions with river access. The stage they show looks quite like a DCSS but there are no indication that ULA will build the stage. We ought to know more in the coming months and 2019. I guess OATK (NG) will need an OmegA Mariner ship as I down know how else they can transport it unless they build the stage at both launch sites.

Would about barging another mobile crawler & tower from KSC to West Coast?

Offline russianhalo117

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There is nothing stated publicly however they have facilities in the Mississippi Alluvial Plain, Arkansas River Valley and elsewhere in several regions with river access. The stage they show looks quite like a DCSS but there are no indication that ULA will build the stage. We ought to know more in the coming months and 2019. I guess OATK (NG) will need an OmegA Mariner ship as I down know how else they can transport it unless they build the stage at both launch sites.

Would about barging another mobile crawler & tower from KSC to West Coast?
There is not a causeway and infrastructure at VAFB. Fixed pads are used where vertical inteintegration is required. This would be a case where VI is required.

Online MATTBLAK

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A 4m fairing makes little sense if their third stage is 5m in diameter.  (BTW, are they building that stage in house or contracting it out?)
If the third stage is 5 meters in diameter; is it essentially a twin-engined version of the Delta IV upper stage?
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Offline DaveS

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There is nothing stated publicly however they have facilities in the Mississippi Alluvial Plain, Arkansas River Valley and elsewhere in several regions with river access. The stage they show looks quite like a DCSS but there are no indication that ULA will build the stage. We ought to know more in the coming months and 2019. I guess OATK (NG) will need an OmegA Mariner ship as I down know how else they can transport it unless they build the stage at both launch sites.

Would about barging another mobile crawler & tower from KSC to West Coast?
There is not a causeway and infrastructure at VAFB. Fixed pads are used where vertical inteintegration is required. This would be a case where VI is required.
And there's only two crawlers in existance, both owned by NASA. And they have no interest in selling either one, especially not CT-2 which has been upgraded to be able to handle SLS. Another hurdle is the sheer massive weight of a crawler, 6.6 million lbs or 2.98 million metric tons. They can only move on a specially built gravel road called a Crawlerway which is way wider than any normal road. Not a simple project at the very hilly South Base of Vandenberg.
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Offline Lars-J

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A 4m fairing makes little sense if their third stage is 5m in diameter.  (BTW, are they building that stage in house or contracting it out?)
If the third stage is 5 meters in diameter; is it essentially a twin-engined version of the Delta IV upper stage?

Pretty much, the artwork makes it look very similar, although that may be artistic vagueness at this point. But it does bring into focus that this rocket will be very large (the DCSS is huge!), and they must be cutting some interesting deals if they can keep the cost down.
« Last Edit: 04/20/2018 01:37 AM by Lars-J »

Offline deruch

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My guess for how the name was chosen:

The Northrop guys told the Orbital guys, "This is the last damn time you all are gonna get to design one of these."  ---> Omega
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Offline woods170

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The Delta II pad seems more right-sized, though, the Delta IV pad has a lot of expensive infrastructure.

That big core SRM is going to require a substantial flame trench. Substantially bigger than the one that is currently underneath SLC-2W.

Offline ethan829

I'm not sure what you mean, but Delta II and Delta IV uses different pads, and both should be available in the near future. The Delta II pad seems more right-sized, though, the Delta IV pad has a lot of expensive infrastructure.

Both options are reportedly being considered:

Quote
For a West Coast launch site to support polar orbit missions, Orbital ATK is considering at least two options: Upgrading the Delta 2 launch pad at Space Launch Complex 2-West once that rocket is retired later this year, or moving into Space Launch Complex-6 when the Delta 4-Heavy flies its last mission in the 2020s.

Offline ZachF

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A 4m fairing makes little sense if their third stage is 5m in diameter.  (BTW, are they building that stage in house or contracting it out?)

The upper stage looks an awful lot like the Delta IV US/ ICPS.

Offline ZachF

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Another hurdle is the sheer massive weight of a crawler, 6.6 million lbs or 2.98 million metric tons.

I think you're off a little bit... 2.98 million tonnes is equal to 30 aircraft carriers. ;P

Offline DaveS

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Another hurdle is the sheer massive weight of a crawler, 6.6 million lbs or 2.98 million metric tons.

I think you're off a little bit... 2.98 million tonnes is equal to 30 aircraft carriers. ;P
Yes, I converted things wrong. I of course meant 2, 980 metric tons.
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Offline Rik ISS-fan

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GEM-63XL on Vulcan
GEM-63XLT on OmegA

4m fairing is currently not proposed. Also currently developed is Castor-900 and a few other configurations per their latest motor catalog.
Thanks for correcting me, by sharing new info.
I can only find the 2016 motor catalog. Could you share a link to the most resent version? Thanks in advance.
(There are two versions on OATKs website a May 2016 and a October 20168 version.)
« Last Edit: 04/22/2018 05:54 PM by Rik ISS-fan »

Offline russianhalo117

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GEM-63XL on Vulcan
GEM-63XLT on OmegA

4m fairing is currently not proposed. Also currently developed is Castor-900 and a few other configurations per their latest motor catalog.
Thanks for correcting me, by sharing new info.
I can only find the 2016 motor catalog. Could you share a link to the most resent version? Thanks in advance.
(There are two versions on OATKs website a May 2016 and a October 2018 version.)
The 2016 is most recent on the site however there a wrong file that is supposed to be the 2017 update. 2018 is not out yet thus GEM-63XLT is not listed yet. As for Castor-900. The Castor designations are actively replacing the steel case RSRM series. There will be new composite versions offered in the future. Composite segments are longer than their steel predecessors. SLS SRB is 5 segments whereas the composite Castor-1200 is 4 segments. Castor-900 will be 3 , Castor-600 is 2 and Castor 300 is 1. It is yet to be foreseen if they will introduce half segments to replace the rest of the existing RSRM series.
« Last Edit: 04/21/2018 05:58 PM by russianhalo117 »

Offline TrevorMonty

The Omega Heavy at 7800kg to GEO is slightly more powerful than Vulcan 7000.

Whether it can manage 36t to LEO it not clear as OA don't publish LEO performance.

Offline russianhalo117

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A 4m fairing makes little sense if their third stage is 5m in diameter.  (BTW, are they building that stage in house or contracting it out?)
If the third stage is 5 meters in diameter; is it essentially a twin-engined version of the Delta IV upper stage?

Pretty much, the artwork makes it look very similar, although that may be artistic vagueness at this point. But it does bring into focus that this rocket will be very large (the DCSS is huge!), and they must be cutting some interesting deals if they can keep the cost down.
One possibility is OATK is buying the IP rights and such for DCSS 5 meter so that they can create a modern 2 RL-10C-1 engine derivative. OmegA I dont believe hasn't yet gone through CDR so the stage design might change into a more efficient design.

Offline TrevorMonty



https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/23/jefferies-orbital-atk-could-upset-spacex-ula-for-air-force-launches.html?__source=sharebar|twitter&par=sharebar

With NG buying OA, build and launch deals for Orbital satellites can also be extended to NG built satellites.

Offline ranger84

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I remember reading years ago about the Air Force wanting the ability to rapidly launch large payloads to orbit, Iím wondering if this LV wouldnít lend itself to be able to go from cold storage to launch quickly, kind of like when they went from Titan IIís to Minutemen ICBMís.
« Last Edit: 04/26/2018 04:25 AM by ranger84 »

Offline Lars-J

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I remember reading years ago about the Air Force wanting the ability to rapidly launch large payloads to orbit, Iím wondering if this LV wouldnít lend itself to be able to go from cold storage to launch quickly, kind of like when they went from Titan IIís to Minutemen ICBMís.

For solid LVs of this scale, nothing is quick though. The munitions analogue doesn't quite hold here, unless you store your LVs on launch pads ready to go. (and pads are not that plentiful nor cheap) ;)

You could likely put liquid stages in storage and use them up just as fast. Also remember that OmegA has a liquid third stage which it cannot launch without.

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