Author Topic: NASA courts commercial options for Lunar Landers  (Read 13674 times)

Online redliox

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Re: NASA courts commercial options for Lunar Landers
« Reply #80 on: 05/29/2018 06:17 PM »
Jeff Bezos has begun speaking up about establishing a permanent lunar presence, but per Blue Origins' norm hasn't elaborated terribly much on the exact plans.

http://spacenews.com/bezos-outlines-vision-of-blue-origins-lunar-future/

I like his enthusiasm, but I want to know if he's given any details beyond New Glenn and New Armstrong being B.O.'s rockets of choice.  On top of that, we need landers to boot.
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Offline TrevorMonty

Re: NASA courts commercial options for Lunar Landers
« Reply #81 on: 05/29/2018 07:02 PM »
Jeff Bezos has begun speaking up about establishing a permanent lunar presence, but per Blue Origins' norm hasn't elaborated terribly much on the exact plans.

http://spacenews.com/bezos-outlines-vision-of-blue-origins-lunar-future/

I like his enthusiasm, but I want to know if he's given any details beyond New Glenn and New Armstrong being B.O.'s rockets of choice.  On top of that, we need landers to boot.
Blue are developing a 5t cargo lander, whether that could be converted to human lander for round trip we don't know. ULA and Masten also have there Xeus lander concept based on Centuar.

With crew lander you can design it today with enough fuel/DV for round trip to surface and back to Orbit. Alternatively wait a few years and see how mining of lunar water turns out. Being able to refuel on surface halves DV requirements of lander.

Online DistantTemple

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Re: NASA courts commercial options for Lunar Landers
« Reply #82 on: 05/29/2018 10:19 PM »
Jeff Bezos has begun speaking up about establishing a permanent lunar presence, but per Blue Origins' norm hasn't elaborated terribly much on the exact plans.

http://spacenews.com/bezos-outlines-vision-of-blue-origins-lunar-future/

I like his enthusiasm, but I want to know if he's given any details beyond New Glenn and New Armstrong being B.O.'s rockets of choice.  On top of that, we need landers to boot.
Blue are developing a 5t cargo lander, whether that could be converted to human lander for round trip we don't know. ULA and Masten also have there Xeus lander concept based on Centuar.

With crew lander you can design it today with enough fuel/DV for round trip to surface and back to Orbit. Alternatively wait a few years and see how mining of lunar water turns out. Being able to refuel on surface halves DV requirements of lander.
Given both scenarios "will" be required, two versions need to be designed. Then a decision if that will be two quite different designs, or two versions of basically the same craft. Even if lunar fuel is available on the moon, it will be in one location. so a different landing site will still require the lander that carries its return propellant.  Spare propellant will also allow short hops etc. Will they do it the Musk way, and have one ship, and run with some tanks empty, and stay versatile, or do it the NASA way and have a different optimised design for each scenario. I would go the Musk way.

With no atmosphere a larger pressurised volume creates no extra drag, just mass. Surface fuel will allow greater down-mass and up-mass, if the engines allow. Otherwise the load space is half empty. so!

If SX lands ISRU in 2022 then there will probably be propellant at that location by the time BO is landing there!  Gra...gradi... gradia.. arrrr.
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: NASA courts commercial options for Lunar Landers
« Reply #83 on: 06/11/2018 12:57 AM »
Good article from Paul Spudis about lunar missions.

https://www.airspacemag.com/daily-planet/americas-return-moon-foothold-not-just-footprints-180969180/

I agree with idea on focus on building single outpost and concentrate the robotic missions on that base. Once a robotic ISRU base is operational and producing lunar water and fuel, transport costs should fall. Making manned base and exploration further a field more affordable including construction of other bases.

NB it may work out that sustaining a lunar base is unaffordable even with ISRU fuel, the only way to find this out is to give it ago.
« Last Edit: 06/11/2018 12:58 AM by TrevorMonty »

Online speedevil

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Re: NASA courts commercial options for Lunar Landers
« Reply #84 on: 06/11/2018 10:18 AM »
NB it may work out that sustaining a lunar base is unaffordable even with ISRU fuel, the only way to find this out is to give it ago.
Cost matters.
If you save 90% of down-mass, using ISRU, and your mass to lunar orbit costs 50* that of a competitive design, you've lost, and the proper approach is not to support a lunar base with ISRU, but to iterate on your ISRU design and get it cheaper while not relying on ISRU.


Offline QuantumG

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Re: NASA courts commercial options for Lunar Landers
« Reply #85 on: 06/11/2018 10:45 PM »
]Blue are developing a 5t cargo lander, whether that could be converted to human lander for round trip we don't know. ULA and Masten also have there Xeus lander concept based on Centuar.

Just Send Money TM

They won't do it on their own dime.
I hear those things are awfully loud. It glides as softly as a cloud. What's it called? Monowhale!

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: NASA courts commercial options for Lunar Landers
« Reply #86 on: 06/12/2018 02:06 AM »
]Blue are developing a 5t cargo lander, whether that could be converted to human lander for round trip we don't know. ULA and Masten also have there Xeus lander concept based on Centuar.

Just Send Money TM

They won't do it on their own dime.


The Lunar CATALYST small payload landers from Astrobotic Technology, Masten Space Systems and Moon Express are being done on the companies' own dime.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: NASA courts commercial options for Lunar Landers
« Reply #87 on: 06/12/2018 04:05 AM »
The Lunar CATALYST small payload landers from Astrobotic Technology, Masten Space Systems and Moon Express are being done on the companies' own dime.

Where "done" means not flying.
I hear those things are awfully loud. It glides as softly as a cloud. What's it called? Monowhale!

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: NASA courts commercial options for Lunar Landers
« Reply #88 on: 06/12/2018 01:12 PM »
The Lunar CATALYST small payload landers from Astrobotic Technology, Masten Space Systems and Moon Express are being done on the companies' own dime.

Where "done" means not flying.


That is next year. This year they are getting the rocket engines to work.

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: NASA courts commercial options for Lunar Landers
« Reply #89 on: 08/18/2018 02:02 AM »
Has the company Moon Express gone under?

p.s. The answer appears to be No. Just a fake post on Wikipedia.
« Last Edit: 08/18/2018 08:04 PM by A_M_Swallow »

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