Author Topic: FY19 NASA Budget Request  (Read 15581 times)

Offline yg1968

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« Last Edit: 02/10/2018 02:53 PM by yg1968 »

Offline Xentry

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #1 on: 02/12/2018 04:12 PM »
Already available at the nasa website (https://www.nasa.gov/news/budget/index.html). Two specific items appear particularly interesting, and both are related to a new budget line named "Advanced Exploration Systems" which is about $1bn a year starting in FY19:
1) support to public-private partnerships with the purpose of developing small and medium-sized (500-1000kg) robotic lunar landers, towards a first flight opportunity of the small ones in FY2019 (!) and the medium ones in FY2022, and
2) the launch in FY2022 of a power and propulsion stage on a commercial launch vehicle instead of SLS...

edit: forgot another interesting element - a "potential Mars Sample Return mission incorporating commercial partnerships"?!
« Last Edit: 02/12/2018 04:18 PM by Xentry »

Offline BrightLight

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #2 on: 02/12/2018 04:35 PM »
Attached is the budget overview for NASA from
https://www.nasa.gov/news/budget/index.html
NASA FY 2019 Budget Overview
ISS thru 2023, and a new item as described Xentry "Advanced Exploration Systems" , note that it is roughly 1 billion per year thru 2023.
« Last Edit: 02/12/2018 04:36 PM by BrightLight »

Offline WindnWar

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #3 on: 02/12/2018 05:01 PM »
https://twitter.com/Berger_SN/status/963107389984641024

That is a major list of items they want cancelled, several of which are either in service or are ready to be.

Offline Star One

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FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #4 on: 02/12/2018 05:01 PM »
The headline items to me are the attempt to cut NASA’s flagship astronomy mission in WFIRST and the attempted decimation of  earth sciences yet again. Plus cutting NASA’s Office of Education.

http://spacenews.com/nasa-budget-proposal-seeks-to-cancel-wfirst/

I’d be very, very surprised if this gets past Congress as is.
« Last Edit: 02/12/2018 05:10 PM by Star One »

Offline Political Hack Wannabe

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #5 on: 02/12/2018 05:55 PM »
Already available at the nasa website (https://www.nasa.gov/news/budget/index.html). Two specific items appear particularly interesting, and both are related to a new budget line named "Advanced Exploration Systems" which is about $1bn a year starting in FY19:
1) support to public-private partnerships with the purpose of developing small and medium-sized (500-1000kg) robotic lunar landers, towards a first flight opportunity of the small ones in FY2019 (!) and the medium ones in FY2022, and
2) the launch in FY2022 of a power and propulsion stage on a commercial launch vehicle instead of SLS...

edit: forgot another interesting element - a "potential Mars Sample Return mission incorporating commercial partnerships"?!

Advanced Exploration Systems itself is not a new start - the NextSTEP program is within AES, as well as Lunar CATALYST
It's not democrats vs republicans, it's reality vs innumerate space cadet fantasy.

Offline Xentry

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #6 on: 02/12/2018 06:24 PM »
Already available at the nasa website (https://www.nasa.gov/news/budget/index.html). Two specific items appear particularly interesting, and both are related to a new budget line named "Advanced Exploration Systems" which is about $1bn a year starting in FY19:
1) support to public-private partnerships with the purpose of developing small and medium-sized (500-1000kg) robotic lunar landers, towards a first flight opportunity of the small ones in FY2019 (!) and the medium ones in FY2022, and
2) the launch in FY2022 of a power and propulsion stage on a commercial launch vehicle instead of SLS...

edit: forgot another interesting element - a "potential Mars Sample Return mission incorporating commercial partnerships"?!

Advanced Exploration Systems itself is not a new start - the NextSTEP program is within AES, as well as Lunar CATALYST

That is correct, but note that at least part of the NextSTEP programme does NOT appear to be any longer within Advanced Exploration System, and is instead referred to in the "Exploration Research and Technology" - or at least that's what is written on p.18 of the NASA Budget Overview.
In addition, AES+ERT put together now represent nearly $2bn in the proposal for FY2019... it's still quite a budget increase for new exploration technologies taken as a whole, I think.

Offline yg1968

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #7 on: 02/12/2018 07:26 PM »
Cancelling WFirst would be a shame. Hope that Congress doesn't go along with that.

Offline Star One

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #8 on: 02/12/2018 08:34 PM »
Ranking Member Johnson Statement on President’s FY2019 Budget Request

Quote
“When I was first briefed on ‘highlights’ of President Trump’s budget request, I was incredulous at its treatment of our federal science agencies. To propose slashing EPA’s budget and DOE’s EERE, eliminating NASA’s education programs and several Earth science instruments and missions, and cutting NOAA’s oceans and atmospheric programs, just to name a few of the damaging proposals in this document, shows that this Administration has no appreciation for the role that these agencies play in driving the economy, keeping our nation competitive, and protecting the environment and public health.   The only good thing about this budget is that it’s so extreme, I have no doubt that it will be summarily rejected by both sides of the aisle.”

https://democrats-science.house.gov/news/press-releases/ranking-member-johnson-statement-president-s-fy2019-budget-request

Offline AncientU

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #9 on: 02/12/2018 10:41 PM »
Cancelling WFirst would be a shame. Hope that Congress doesn't go along with that.

Don't agree. WFIRST was an out of control program that was on a path to become son of JWST budget and schedule-wise... and producing even less cutting edge science in the process.

Back to the drawing board for the next decadal review.  Maybe this time, the product designed will more closely reflect the original scientific intent, timeline, and budget of the review.

Full disclosure: I am an astronomer/astrophysicist.
« Last Edit: 02/12/2018 10:45 PM by AncientU »
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Offline yg1968

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #10 on: 02/12/2018 11:51 PM »
“State of NASA” Events Highlight Agency Goals for Space Exploration:



Offline yg1968

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #11 on: 02/13/2018 05:48 AM »
Below is the teleconference with NASA’s acting Chief Financial Officer Andrew Hunter:

The slides are available here:
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/nasa_fy_2019_budget_overview.pdf




« Last Edit: 02/13/2018 05:48 AM by yg1968 »

Offline Star One

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Offline AncientU

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #13 on: 02/13/2018 11:00 AM »
Cancelling WFirst would be a shame. Hope that Congress doesn't go along with that.

Don't agree. WFIRST was an out of control program that was on a path to become son of JWST budget and schedule-wise... and producing even less cutting edge science in the process.

Back to the drawing board for the next decadal review.  Maybe this time, the product designed will more closely reflect the original scientific intent, timeline, and budget of the review.

Full disclosure: I am an astronomer/astrophysicist.

I am surprised you didn’t suggest it be turned into a commercial program with of course Space X winning the contract.

No, but I do like the idea of a significant reduction of NASA's 'footprint.'
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
-- SpaceX friend of mlindner

Offline Star One

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #14 on: 02/13/2018 11:09 AM »
Cancelling WFirst would be a shame. Hope that Congress doesn't go along with that.

Don't agree. WFIRST was an out of control program that was on a path to become son of JWST budget and schedule-wise... and producing even less cutting edge science in the process.

Back to the drawing board for the next decadal review.  Maybe this time, the product designed will more closely reflect the original scientific intent, timeline, and budget of the review.

Full disclosure: I am an astronomer/astrophysicist.

I am surprised you didn’t suggest it be turned into a commercial program with of course Space X winning the contract.

No, but I do like the idea of a significant reduction of NASA's 'footprint.'

I was debating about posting my original comment but in the end decided to as I am fed up with seeing the perception incorrectly replicated online that NASA has this huge footprint that somehow stifles the commercial sector. When in fact without the money provided by NASA through their commercial partnerships companies such as Space X wouldn’t be where they are now. Something that certain commercial sector supporters seem to have a convenient mind blank on.

Offline AncientU

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #15 on: 02/13/2018 11:45 AM »
NASA's money is good, no doubt, especially if you are starting a new rocketry business in the established NASA/NSS marketplace.  Problem is that too many out there are beholden to that cash flow and are compelled to admire the Emperor's new clothes.

NASA could do well with smaller headcount and fewer political demands on its funding -- SLS/Orion is a prime example.  A significant headcount (and center) reduction is long overdue.
« Last Edit: 02/13/2018 11:51 AM by AncientU »
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Offline AncientU

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #16 on: 02/13/2018 01:08 PM »
Eric Berger's sixth installment describes the rich NASA history as background for where we are today:
Quote
Meanwhile, NASA's overhead costs have risen so high, and its plodding pace of development for new spaceflight hardware takes so long, that there is no funding left over to actually put new vehicles into use for human missions to the Moon, or to Mars—and no sense of urgency to do so, either. Warring fiefdoms weigh heavily on progress. Often, key spaceflight centers in Texas, Alabama, Florida, and California, along with their elected officials, squabble over funding and control, echoing the dynamic that dates to 1965 and Wernher von Braun's concerns for more work for Marshall Space Flight Center.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/02/the-greatest-leap-part-6-after-apollo-nasa-still-searching-for-an-encore/

We can continue to do the same things, over and over for the next decades... but must abandon all hope that this will produce different results (unless we are completely insane).  This budget battle will again be 'a squabble over funding and control' and the incumbents have all the political cards.

Only a restructured NASA with a renewed purpose (and smaller 'footprint') will be able to lead or even participate in a human exploration effort.  My bets are on it happening largely without them -- as a taxpayer, I'd prefer to see NASA slimmed down to fighting weight and again in the ring, but that's too great of a fantasy.
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
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Offline Star One

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #17 on: 02/13/2018 04:31 PM »
Eric Berger's sixth installment describes the rich NASA history as background for where we are today:
Quote
Meanwhile, NASA's overhead costs have risen so high, and its plodding pace of development for new spaceflight hardware takes so long, that there is no funding left over to actually put new vehicles into use for human missions to the Moon, or to Mars—and no sense of urgency to do so, either. Warring fiefdoms weigh heavily on progress. Often, key spaceflight centers in Texas, Alabama, Florida, and California, along with their elected officials, squabble over funding and control, echoing the dynamic that dates to 1965 and Wernher von Braun's concerns for more work for Marshall Space Flight Center.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/02/the-greatest-leap-part-6-after-apollo-nasa-still-searching-for-an-encore/

We can continue to do the same things, over and over for the next decades... but must abandon all hope that this will produce different results (unless we are completely insane).  This budget battle will again be 'a squabble over funding and control' and the incumbents have all the political cards.

Only a restructured NASA with a renewed purpose (and smaller 'footprint') will be able to lead or even participate in a human exploration effort.  My bets are on it happening largely without them -- as a taxpayer, I'd prefer to see NASA slimmed down to fighting weight and again in the ring, but that's too great of a fantasy.

The only fantasy is that NASA is too big. In fact NASA is tiny in the grand scheme of things and takes a tiny share of the federal budget. It has also time and again been recognised as one of the most efficient agencies.

Offline AncientU

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #18 on: 02/13/2018 06:57 PM »
...

The only fantasy is that NASA is too big. In fact NASA is tiny in the grand scheme of things and takes a tiny share of the federal budget. It has also time and again been recognised as one of the most efficient agencies.

Could it be that the USG is too big when 'a tiny share' is twenty billion dollars and being 'one of the most efficient agencies' might not mean that you are anything close to efficient?  But I am getting a glimpse of that new set of clothes...
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
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Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: FY19 NASA Budget Request
« Reply #19 on: 02/13/2018 07:19 PM »
A reminder that a thriving thread for WFIRST exists:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39248.0
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