SpaceX FH : Falcon Heavy Demo : Feb 6, 2018 : Discussion Thread 2

[Jdeshetler]

And Elon showed up at Fishlips... How come no NSFers were there??

https://twitter.com/PortCanaveral/status/961635748796608513[/font][/size]

One of my NSF (unnamed) buddy were invited at the last minute so he had to grab a quick shower after sleeping overnight in the car next to PlayaLinda Beach so he must have missed his appearance.....

But at least he got a cool shirt.

[Johnnyhinbos]

Delta IV KO?

[Ben the Space Brit]

I think that the D-IVH was on its last legs anyway. However, I can't see USAF retiring it early, even if only for reasons of assured access.

[woods170]

Those in the MSM that are saying this are most likely the same ones that thought the roadster was going to orbit Mars. They thought this because somebody else who hadn't researched it told them that. Reporters used to do their own research and made sure they understood their source material before publishing it.
<snip>

For the most part I agree. However, here is little bit of perspective, based on my own personal experience from last week.

Having recently written an article in the "Ruimtevaart" magazine of the Dutch Space Society I was interviewed twice last week, by reporters from the Dutch national news agency NOS Journaal. On both occasions it was for fact-checking purposes.  A guy over at ESTEC was interviewed as well, again for fact-checking purposes.
So when the pre-launch story on Falcon Heavy appeared on NOS.nl I was pleasantly surprised to notice that the story was generally correct.

[Jim]

Lori Garver editorial in The Hill (Capitol Hill political newspaper/site). She really gets it, and says NASA refused a free ride on FH.

Quoting what Lori said

"SpaceX offered NASA the opportunity to get a free ride on this first launch."

What would NASA have flown? Certainly not an expensive space probe as the first flight of FH would have been too risky.

I think an Orion with a full LAS would have been low risk in that even a failure would produce useful flight test data and you'd probably get the most expensive part back.
If it blows up you get an abort test if it works you get to send Orion on a test flight around the Moon well if FH was flown in expendable mode.
Though you might be able to get a lunar free return expending just the core and using the Orion SM to perform part of the TLI burn.

But this would have eaten up all the payload and I'm not even sure if FH's payload adapter can handle a payload that heavy.

No, that is not even feasible.  There is no hardware available and vertical integration.

[king1999]

Newt Gingrich's piece.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/02/09/newt-gingrich-spacex-s-falcon-rocket-is-tremendous-step-toward-reasserting-american-leadership-in-space.html

The impact of this FH launch is tremendous...

[JimO]

Some similarities and differences between what may be the stage-2 restart cool-down purge for Zuma mission and Starman. First case, a brief retrograde deorbit burn [spin stabilized?]; second case, major posigrade escape burn.

Discussion?

ADD: Remember that both of these images were caught fortuitously, made possible by unique illumination conditions that the spacecraft operators probably were unaware of. More details on these conditions and their serendipitously happy benefit to private space sleuths, here --
http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/misc/Space_clouds-Strange_Spinoff_of_the_Space_Age.pdf
 http://satobs.org/seesat_ref/misc/tomsk_spiral_ufo_2006.pdf

[goretexguy]

No, that is not even feasible.  There is no hardware available and vertical integration.

Though the question is still begged: "Will the presence of a successful Falcon Heavy be sufficient to cause hardware providers to adopt or support horizontal integration in their designs?"

If "yes", Falcon and Falcon Heavy have a great future. If not, there will forever be a class of payloads unavailable to SpaceX regardless of the performance of their rockets. (Unless, of course, they build a Vertical Integration facility at the pad... but this is discussion for another thread.)

For now, though: Well done, SpaceX.

[Rocket Science]

Newt Gingrich's piece.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/02/09/newt-gingrich-spacex-s-falcon-rocket-is-tremendous-step-toward-reasserting-american-leadership-in-space.html

The impact of this FH launch is tremendous...

Not all of NASA=Bad... Problems began when it became an internal political football... How long FH will be around is another unknown... Just the same, Go Heavy!

[Jim]

Though the question is still begged: "Will the presence of a successful Falcon Heavy be sufficient to cause hardware providers to adopt or support horizontal integration in their designs?"

No, there still are physical reasons for vertical integration

[envy887]

Newt Gingrich's piece.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/02/09/newt-gingrich-spacex-s-falcon-rocket-is-tremendous-step-toward-reasserting-american-leadership-in-space.html

The impact of this FH launch is tremendous...

That direct to Pluto thing again...

if FH block 5 expended can get 63.8 tonnes to LEO, assuming the upper stage is ~4.0 tonnes and ISP of 348, it can put 1.5 tonnes of payload through 8600 m/s delta-v from LEO. That is enough for C3=140 km^2/s^2 assuming the LEO is 200 km circular, and will flyby Pluto in about 25 years (~2043).

It would be much faster and higher payload to wait for the next Jupiter assist, which has a launch window in 2028 and a flight time of 10 years (2038 flyby) for C3=122 km^2/s^2, which is a delta-v of 7.81 km/s from LEO and where fully expended FH can do 2.9 tonnes.

Getting the 3.5 tonnes that SpaceX advertises to Pluto requires all of expending the FH, a Jupiter flyby, AND a Star-48 kick stage, by my calculations.

[speedevil]

Getting the 3.5 tonnes that SpaceX advertises to Pluto requires all of expending the FH, a Jupiter flyby, AND a Star-48 kick stage, by my calculations.

How does a methalox second stage of comparable mass change this?
Wondering from the perspective of if this could have been buried in the assumption all along that if someone wanted it they could make it, rather than rehashing 'they should make a metholox s2'

[Robotbeat]

Newt Gingrich's piece.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/02/09/newt-gingrich-spacex-s-falcon-rocket-is-tremendous-step-toward-reasserting-american-leadership-in-space.html

The impact of this FH launch is tremendous...

That direct to Pluto thing again...

if FH block 5 expended can get 63.8 tonnes to LEO, assuming the upper stage is ~4.0 tonnes and ISP of 348, it can put 1.5 tonnes of payload through 8600 m/s delta-v from LEO. That is enough for C3=140 km^2/s^2 assuming the LEO is 200 km circular, and will flyby Pluto in about 25 years (~2043).

It would be much faster and higher payload to wait for the next Jupiter assist, which has a launch window in 2028 and a flight time of 10 years (2038 flyby) for C3=122 km^2/s^2, which is a delta-v of 7.81 km/s from LEO and where fully expended FH can do 2.9 tonnes.

Getting the 3.5 tonnes that SpaceX advertises to Pluto requires all of expending the FH, a Jupiter flyby, AND a Star-48 kick stage, by my calculations.

I wonder if SpaceX is implicitly assuming a stretch in the upper stage for these high energy trajectories. The higher Isp of the Merlin should help compensate for carrying around more dry mass, so I think this might be better than a kick stage. (Some trajectories might require a stretch AND a kick stage, though.)

I wouldn't be surprised if the Pluto figure on SpaceX's website includes a Jupiter flyby. At some point, as you mention, it makes more sense to wait for a flyby than to go direct.

[webdan]

Did GOES-16 spot the launch? The time certainly matches.

http://col.st/l6XAy


Edit: Ugh, forgot to mention to press the spacebar to play the short movie

[jcm]

I didn't find this information anywhere: Did the roadster separate from the second stage or is it still attached?

AFAIK, I'm not sure there is definitive information but consensus is almost certainly they remain attached.  No reason to separate.

Confirmation (or as close as I've seen so far) that the 2nd stage remains attached:

https://twitter.com/planet4589/status/961709147229229059

The source who told me this is a senior SpaceX person who would know. There was no separation from stage 2.

[jpo234]

I didn't find this information anywhere: Did the roadster separate from the second stage or is it still attached?

AFAIK, I'm not sure there is definitive information but consensus is almost certainly they remain attached.  No reason to separate.

Confirmation (or as close as I've seen so far) that the 2nd stage remains attached:

https://twitter.com/planet4589/status/961709147229229059

The source who told me this is a senior SpaceX person who would know. There was no separation from stage 2.

Thanks for the clarification. Should this information go to the update thread?

[Jim]

I didn't find this information anywhere: Did the roadster separate from the second stage or is it still attached?

AFAIK, I'm not sure there is definitive information but consensus is almost certainly they remain attached.  No reason to separate.

Confirmation (or as close as I've seen so far) that the 2nd stage remains attached:

https://twitter.com/planet4589/status/961709147229229059

The source who told me this is a senior SpaceX person who would know. There was no separation from stage 2.

Thanks for the clarification. Should this information go to the update thread?

It isn't  an update.  It's been known for awhile.  Plus it makes no sense to separate.

[wolfpack]

Separating the roadster would just make 2 objects that are likely to bump into one another. My guess is by now the joined object is probably spinning. Something on the roadster will off-gas (blown tire?) and there's no attitude control at all. Whoever finds that thing in a few hundred years probably won't be looking at anywhere near the same picture as we did on Tuesday. It'll be nice if the plaque survives, though.

[PeterAlt]

I just noticed that the live stream of Starman is still going. Is it live or recorded? I thought the batteries would have died by now...

[speedevil]

I just noticed that the live stream of Starman is still going. Is it live or recorded? I thought the batteries would have died by now...

There are several channels on youtube that broadcast 'live' prerecorded space content on loops.

The most obvious point would be that the earth is visible as more than a 'moon-sized' object at this time.
The earth from Starmans current viewpoint is about 0.004AU away, 650000km, one hundred times the earths radius.