-
#120
by
gongora
on 30 Mar, 2018 14:57
-
According to https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/data/us-maritime-limits-and-boundaries.html NOAA has legal jurisdiction over its own vessels, aricraft and personnel anywhere in the world they may be. But as far as legal jurisdiction over private entities, vessels, aircraft and personnel it's legal jurisdiction ends at the boundaries of the attached map. The Falcon 2nd stage was well outside the boundaries on this NOAA-supplied boundary map and over international air space. SpaceX should not need permission from NOAA to operate there because NOAA does not have jurisdiction there. Either somebody at NOAA had a bad day and SpaceX decided it wasn't going to engage the hassle or there is a previously unreported NOAA secret satellite being deployed. I can think of no other reason for this bizarre situation.
This is nonsense. NOAA is the federal agency responsible for overseeing space based imaging by U.S. entities. That obviously takes place outside of U.S. boundaries.
-
#121
by
whitelancer64
on 30 Mar, 2018 14:57
-
According to https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/data/us-maritime-limits-and-boundaries.html NOAA has legal jurisdiction over its own vessels, aricraft and personnel anywhere in the world they may be. But as far as legal jurisdiction over private entities, vessels, aircraft and personnel it's legal jurisdiction ends at the boundaries of the attached map. The Falcon 2nd stage was well outside the boundaries on this NOAA-supplied boundary map and over international air space. SpaceX should not need permission from NOAA to operate there because NOAA does not have jurisdiction there. Either somebody at NOAA had a bad day and SpaceX decided it wasn't going to engage the hassle or there is a previously unreported NOAA secret satellite being deployed. I can think of no other reason for this bizarre situation.
There may be "United States" jurisdiction thru the Space Treaty but that would be exercised by someone other than NOAA. NOAA does not have legal jurisdiction in space unless it is a NOAA vehicle.
NOAA issues licenses for satellite remote sensing.
https://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/CRSRA/licenseHome.htmlIt seems likely this is related to that.
Previous speculation that SpaceX didn't get the license in time for the launch seems plausible.
-
#122
by
AncientU
on 30 Mar, 2018 14:59
-
According to https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/data/us-maritime-limits-and-boundaries.html NOAA has legal jurisdiction over its own vessels, aricraft and personnel anywhere in the world they may be. But as far as legal jurisdiction over private entities, vessels, aircraft and personnel it's legal jurisdiction ends at the boundaries of the attached map. The Falcon 2nd stage was well outside the boundaries on this NOAA-supplied boundary map and over international air space. SpaceX should not need permission from NOAA to operate there because NOAA does not have jurisdiction there. Either somebody at NOAA had a bad day and SpaceX decided it wasn't going to engage the hassle or there is a previously unreported NOAA secret satellite being deployed. I can think of no other reason for this bizarre situation.
https://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/CRSRA/licenseHome.html
Welcome to NOAA CRSRA Licensing Program. This web site is intended to provide U.S. laws, regulations, policies, and guidance pertaining to the operation of commercial remote sensing satellite systems. Pursuant to the National and Commercial Space Programs Act (NCSPA or Act), 51 U.S.C. § 60101, et seq, responsibilities have been delegated from the Secretary of Commerce to the Assistant Administrator for NOAA Satellite and Information Services (NOAA/NESDIS) for the licensing of the operations of private space-based remote sensing systems.
(pretty much anything in orbit with a camera that can image earth is a private space-based remote sensing system)
Grandfather clause... fifty launches, no NOAA complaints. Done.
-
#123
by
Yellowstone10
on 30 Mar, 2018 14:59
-
-
#124
by
envy887
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:00
-
(pretty much anything in orbit with a camera that can image earth is a private space-based remote sensing system)
That defies common sense. It's telemetry for observing the vehicle, not the Earth. And it's licensed by the FAA, NOAA has no jurisdiction over launch vehicles.
-
#125
by
bsegal
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:00
-
So much for continuing coverage on their Twitter page. Any word on second stage relight and/or start of sat deploy?
-
#126
by
e of pi
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:02
-
So much for continuing coverage on their Twitter page. Any word on second stage relight and/or start of sat deploy?
It's not time yet. Relight is in about another 4 minutes, then deploy starts in about 6 minutes and goes for another 15 minutes.
-
#127
by
Steven Pietrobon
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:03
-
No word, but second ignition should be happening in about three minutes.
-
#128
by
saliva_sweet
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:05
-
https://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/CRSRA/licenseHome.html
It is unlawful for any person who is subject to the jurisdiction or control of the United States, directly or through any subsidiary or affiliate to operate a private remote sensing space system without possession of a valid license issued under the Act and the regulations.
If the second stage would qualify as a remote sensing satellite that requires a license, how would stopping the webcast make a difference?
-
#129
by
guckyfan
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:06
-
No word from Elon about the fairing. Catching was announced as 5 minutes away a while back. Nothing since then. Seems like another failure. Sad but not bad. They will take some time still.
-
#130
by
Jarnis
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:09
-
No word from Elon about the fairing. Catching was announced as 5 minutes away a while back. Nothing since then. Seems like another failure. Sad but not bad. They will take some time still.
Or he's waiting for having a pic of it before tweeting.
-
#131
by
Mader Levap
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:10
-
No word from Elon about the fairing. Catching was announced as 5 minutes away a while back. Nothing since then. Seems like another failure. Sad but not bad. They will take some time still.
Way, way too early to conclude it was failure.
-
#132
by
rockets4life97
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:12
-
No word from Elon about the fairing. Catching was announced as 5 minutes away a while back. Nothing since then. Seems like another failure. Sad but not bad. They will take some time still.
It would be polite to wait until all the customers payloads are deployed...
-
#133
by
abaddon
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:16
-
One other tidbit on the whole NOAA thing; the webcast displayed the entire timeline through the dispensing of all ten Iridium satellites. So either the blackout wasn't generally known within SpaceX or (more likely) it was something that came down at the last minute.
-
#134
by
webdan
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:18
-
They are now deploying satellites...
-
#135
by
Steven Pietrobon
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:19
-
It might be that all the coverage that SpaceX got for Starman raised the interest of some bureaucrat in NOAA who considered the images taken of the Earth to be remote sensing without a NOAA license! Thus perhaps followed a letter from NOAA to SpaceX of said violation and SpaceX unable to obtain a license for this launch, probably because another (more sensible) NOAA bureaucrat considers images taken from a launch vehicle to not be remote sensing. :-)
-
#136
by
Mongo62
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:24
-
NOAA Communications
@NOAAComms
We are looking into questions on the broadcast interruption of this morning’s @SpaceX launch of #Iridium5. We will be in touch when we know more.
https://twitter.com/NOAAComms/status/979738481231650817
I'm starting to think that either some NOAA bureaucrat messed up, or somebody at SpaceX misinterpreted a NOAA communication. Either way, somebody likely screwed up.
-
#137
by
AncientU
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:27
-
Congrats SpaceX and Iridium.
Lots down, lots to go... keep on keeping on.
-
#138
by
Steven Pietrobon
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:30
-
All sats are away. Congratulations to SpaceX and Iridium for the successful launch! Hopefully, SpaceX can get a license to take images of the Earth with Falcon 9 in future flights! :-)
-
#139
by
clongton
on 30 Mar, 2018 15:36
-
https://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/CRSRA/licenseHome.html
It is unlawful for any person who is subject to the jurisdiction or control of the United States, directly or through any subsidiary or affiliate to operate a private remote sensing space system without possession of a valid license issued under the Act and the regulations.
The entire context of "remote sensing system" in the Outer Space Treaty is imaging the earth surface under the spacecraft's path. It was totally about the United States and the USSR photographing installations on the ground in each other's countries. It has nothing to do with video monitoring the spacecraft itself. There is no possible way that what SpaceX routinely does with its launch vehicles can be considered "remote sensing" in terms of the Outer Space Treaty.