Author Topic: ULA Vulcan Launch Vehicle (as announced/built) - General Discussion Thread 3  (Read 172313 times)

Offline jongoff

  • Recovering Rocket Plumber/Space Entrepreneur
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6262
  • Lafayette/Broomfield, CO
  • Liked: 2430
  • Likes Given: 805
Doesn't LM have a say in this? Not sure how it works to their advantage not to develop the tech.

LM has the same position that Boeing has. Why fund something ourselves when we can wait for a government contract to fund the whole thing?

Why invest in something with risks when executives can get better rewards by using the money to buy back stocks?

~Jon

Online Llian Rhydderch

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1029
  • Terran Anglosphere
  • Liked: 853
  • Likes Given: 6696
In the part of my post you quoted, you left out the primary question asked.

Here's was your post:


or "Utilization sensors are not used for loading on a few particular (but unnamed) US government-contracted rockets I/Jim am familiar with." ?

[Polite Jim 3000] ::)[/Polite Jim 3000]

And US government-contracted rockets  includes Falcon 9, Antares, etc.

Here's what I asked:

Utilization sensors are not used for loading.   Level sensors are used for loading and they typically are at the 98, 99, 100 & 101% levels

Would be super helpful to have clarification on your statement.

Did you mean to say:  "Utilization sensors are not used for loading on all rockets ever, worldwide, of all designs."

or "Utilization sensors are not used for loading on a few particular (but unnamed) US government-contracted rockets I/Jim am familiar with." ?


Your statement was unqualified: 
Quote
Utilization sensors are not used for loading.   Level sensors are used for loading and they typically are at the 98, 99, 100 & 101% levels

Is your statement intended to be some sort of universal truth.  This is the only way all launch vehicles are designed?

Or is it, as is more likely, just true for some subset of rockets you know about?  If the latter, I'd really like to know, which rockets of all rockets built since 1957 are the one you were referring to?
Re arguments from authority on NSF:  "no one is exempt from error, and errors of authority are usually the worst kind.  Taking your word for things without question is no different than a bracket design not being tested because the designer was an old hand."
"You would actually save yourself time and effort if you were to use evidence and logic to make your points instead of wrapping yourself in the royal mantle of authority.  The approach only works on sheep, not inquisitive, intelligent people."

Offline MaxTeranous

  • Member
  • Posts: 72
  • Liked: 64
  • Likes Given: 16
What is the difference between a utilization sensor and a level sensor ?

Offline edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13120
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 4374
  • Likes Given: 796
What is the difference between a utilization sensor and a level sensor ?
My guess is that "utilization sensor" means something that is part of the "propellant utilization system" on a liquid rocket stage.  The "PU" system is designed to feed the bipropellants at the correct rates to get near-zero residuals at cutoff.  That would require a means to detect or infer propellant levels when the tanks are nearing empty. 

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 02/12/2019 01:22 pm by edkyle99 »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7205
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 7487
  • Likes Given: 2500
https://twitter.com/b0yle/status/1095431437728313346

Quote
[email protected]'s Kevin Runyon says factory in Decatur, Ala., is being geared up to produce up to 20 next-gen #Vulcan rockets per year. Will have "greater capability" than Atlas for payload rideshare. #CST2019

Offline TrevorMonty


Good article on NG development kf Gem63 and Gem63XL for Atlas and Vulcan. NG will also use Gem63XL on their Omega LV.

www.thespacereview.com/article/3658/1

"Orbital ATK promised to fund all of the upfront engineering costs themselves using a combination of internal and Air Force funding and also deliver the new motors at a price some 40 percent lowerthan the existing AJ-60A, for which ULA charges $5 million."

Not sure if $5M is Gem price or AJ60A, if later then GEM63 is $3M.


Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32550
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 11337
  • Likes Given: 334
In the part of my post you quoted, you left out the primary question asked.

Here's was your post:


or "Utilization sensors are not used for loading on a few particular (but unnamed) US government-contracted rockets I/Jim am familiar with." ?

[Polite Jim 3000] ::)[/Polite Jim 3000]

And US government-contracted rockets  includes Falcon 9, Antares, etc.

Here's what I asked:

Utilization sensors are not used for loading.   Level sensors are used for loading and they typically are at the 98, 99, 100 & 101% levels

Would be super helpful to have clarification on your statement.

Did you mean to say:  "Utilization sensors are not used for loading on all rockets ever, worldwide, of all designs."

or "Utilization sensors are not used for loading on a few particular (but unnamed) US government-contracted rockets I/Jim am familiar with." ?


Your statement was unqualified: 
Quote
Utilization sensors are not used for loading.   Level sensors are used for loading and they typically are at the 98, 99, 100 & 101% levels

Is your statement intended to be some sort of universal truth.  This is the only way all launch vehicles are designed?

Or is it, as is more likely, just true for some subset of rockets you know about?  If the latter, I'd really like to know, which rockets of all rockets built since 1957 are the one you were referring to?

Most rockets don't have utilization sensors

Online Llian Rhydderch

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1029
  • Terran Anglosphere
  • Liked: 853
  • Likes Given: 6696
Thanks, Jim.  Helpful answer.

Qualifying absolute statements can be a beautiful thing, and is helpful to conveying meaning in natural language.
Re arguments from authority on NSF:  "no one is exempt from error, and errors of authority are usually the worst kind.  Taking your word for things without question is no different than a bracket design not being tested because the designer was an old hand."
"You would actually save yourself time and effort if you were to use evidence and logic to make your points instead of wrapping yourself in the royal mantle of authority.  The approach only works on sheep, not inquisitive, intelligent people."

Offline Rik ISS-fan

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 966
  • the Netherlands
  • Liked: 246
  • Likes Given: 141
https://twitter.com/b0yle/status/1095431437728313346

Quote
[email protected]'s Kevin Runyon says factory in Decatur, Ala., is being geared up to produce up to 20 next-gen #Vulcan rockets per year. Will have "greater capability" than Atlas for payload rideshare. #CST2019

Really capable of building 20 Vulcan rockets annually. Isn't that a tiny bit overdone aka double the required production rate (and that's a optimistic assumption).  ::) :-[
« Last Edit: 02/15/2019 07:31 pm by Rik ISS-fan »

Offline GWH

So? I doubt any of their machine centers are major production bottlenecks. If they need more than 6 and less than 20 in a year labour might be the only variable needed.

Better than being constrained to 1 rocket per year like certain government programs. :D

Offline rayleighscatter

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1045
  • Maryland
  • Liked: 487
  • Likes Given: 230
https://twitter.com/b0yle/status/1095431437728313346

Quote
[email protected]'s Kevin Runyon says factory in Decatur, Ala., is being geared up to produce up to 20 next-gen #Vulcan rockets per year. Will have "greater capability" than Atlas for payload rideshare. #CST2019

Really capable of building 20 Vulcan rockets annually. Isn't that a tiny bit overdone aka double the required production rate (and that's a optimistic assumption).  ::) :-[

It's probably due to an increase in automation. Machines have certain rates they work at regardless of how slow you can afford to go.

My desktop printer can print half a million pages a year. That doesn't mean I am printing half a million pages a year.

Tags: