Author Topic: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion  (Read 134818 times)

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #360 on: 12/08/2017 05:53 PM »
With apologies for being "that guy," (and for being off-topic) Snoopy could also inform their archaeological pursuits:

https://omnologos.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/snoopy-the-apollo-lunar-module-awaiting-collection/

Imagine in about 100M years, some alien civilization finds the solar system. Humans are long gone and extinct. Some ruins on the planets surface are left but nothing major. Some stray satellites are still around, not many since most are kicked out by the moon. Then they find the roadster. First of all.. why would there be a wheeled thing in orbit? Its the first and only clue they get for the shape and physiology of humans since all other sats were robotic and apart from handling tools, nothing would indicate the size or shape of humans. So there is this car, what the hell does it do in orbit? And the aliens find the book in the glove box. Of course, they dont know its a glove box but they find the book there. And they reverse engineer the human culture from that book if its not turned to dust. Ohh dear ohh dear, the misinterpretations!
There's also the lunar rovers left on the moon which would have a good chance of still being there.
« Last Edit: 12/08/2017 05:54 PM by Patchouli »

Offline dnavas

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #361 on: 12/09/2017 04:38 PM »
A further, but very important, payload detail:


Seems to me the Roadster needs a driver, and while Buzz Lightyear is an amusing thought, Musk is the best driver for his own car.  And since he's not really available, I nominate IronMan.  In particular, a lego replica seems appropriate to be launched by a Heavy....
:shrug:

Offline Norm38

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #362 on: 12/10/2017 03:01 AM »
They don't have any permits for communicating with the payload.  The most likely explanation for that is an inert payload.

Thatís true, but itís possible that the FCC will issue STA (Special Temporary Authority) for short-term TT&C for a few hours to remain in contact with the payload post-SECO; that would at least allow some passive reception of video and stage safing/monitoring as it recedes.

I have to get FCC certification on new radio designs, and permission to put it into production.  But I don't have to get FCC approval for every single radio. I don't have to get FCC permits to make a cell phone call.
Once they have FCC permission to communicate with one payload, why doesn't that cover every payload provided they stick to their allotted spectrum?

Offline kramax

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #363 on: 12/10/2017 03:11 AM »
I am an avid KSP fan and was intrigued with the possibility of launching the roadster to Mars. I simulated such a launch and I do believe that it is possible to actually fly-by Mars. I simulated a 1.3T payload and launched in the afternoon of January 30, 2018. Here is a video of the simulated mission (it uses fairly accurate physics) if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvsZ8Mwotqw


So looking forward to the actual launch and wish I could be there. For now, simulations will have to do.

Offline deruch

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #364 on: 12/10/2017 04:29 AM »
They don't have any permits for communicating with the payload.  The most likely explanation for that is an inert payload.

Thatís true, but itís possible that the FCC will issue STA (Special Temporary Authority) for short-term TT&C for a few hours to remain in contact with the payload post-SECO; that would at least allow some passive reception of video and stage safing/monitoring as it recedes.

I have to get FCC certification on new radio designs, and permission to put it into production.  But I don't have to get FCC approval for every single radio. I don't have to get FCC permits to make a cell phone call.
Once they have FCC permission to communicate with one payload, why doesn't that cover every payload provided they stick to their allotted spectrum?

Because your radios get licensed to use spectrum and commercial launches only get experimental Special Temporary Authority (STA) to use it for limited time and purposes that are explicitly outlined in the grant (1 specific launch).  Further, each experimental STA contains the condition that future launches would be considered on a case-by-case basis and that there shall be no expectation that spectrum for future launches will be approved.  Experimental STA allows operation only on a non-interference basis.  Stations operating on a non-interference basis have no protection from and must not cause interference to stations operating under a primary or secondary allocation.  As for why they are limited to STAs instead of full licensing, that's due to the spectrum bands that the radios operate in.  Those spectra are allocated for federal government usage and so that limits the type of usage the FCC can grant.

Here's the FCC's GUIDANCE ON OBTAINING EXPERIMENTAL AUTHORIZATIONS FOR COMMERCIAL SPACE LAUNCH ACTIVITIES (March 2013)
https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-13-446A1.pdf
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline AncientU

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #365 on: 12/10/2017 11:35 AM »
I am an avid KSP fan and was intrigued with the possibility of launching the roadster to Mars. I simulated such a launch and I do believe that it is possible to actually fly-by Mars. I simulated a 1.3T payload and launched in the afternoon of January 30, 2018. Here is a video of the simulated mission (it uses fairly accurate physics) if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvsZ8Mwotqw


So looking forward to the actual launch and wish I could be there. For now, simulations will have to do.

Welcome to the forum!
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
-- SpaceX friend of mlindner

Offline speedevil

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #366 on: 12/10/2017 12:06 PM »
Here's the FCC's GUIDANCE ON OBTAINING EXPERIMENTAL AUTHORIZATIONS FOR COMMERCIAL SPACE LAUNCH ACTIVITIES (March 2013)
Upthread I noted that if there is near-flight hardware for Starlink optical out there, this could provide (in conjunction with a ground station) comms not requiring a licence out to well beyond GEO. Tens of kilobits/s to Mars is plausible.

Offline deruch

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #367 on: 12/10/2017 11:30 PM »
Here's the FCC's GUIDANCE ON OBTAINING EXPERIMENTAL AUTHORIZATIONS FOR COMMERCIAL SPACE LAUNCH ACTIVITIES (March 2013)
Upthread I noted that if there is near-flight hardware for Starlink optical out there, this could provide (in conjunction with a ground station) comms not requiring a licence out to well beyond GEO. Tens of kilobits/s to Mars is plausible.

It's probable that the receiver for the optical comms would require authorization through NOAA (which regulates Earth Sensing satellites).  So, while it could potentially avoid having to go through the FCC, in actuality, it wouldn't likely save any effort. 
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline AncientU

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #368 on: 12/11/2017 12:09 AM »
Don't think NOAA has any jurisdiction... nor FCC.

The USG doesn't control everything... yet.
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
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Offline Patchouli

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #369 on: 12/11/2017 12:14 AM »
I wonder if Musk will include a working example of a Commodore Vic-20 which was his first computer in the payload?

Offline speedevil

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #370 on: 12/11/2017 12:18 AM »
It's probable that the receiver for the optical comms would require authorization through NOAA (which regulates Earth Sensing satellites).  So, while it could potentially avoid having to go through the FCC, in actuality, it wouldn't likely save any effort.

The dish is 15cm, and may be due to its design (no orbit, probable LASER filter over it, perhaps no imager or diffraction limited one), poweron most of the way to GTO, ... that it is deemed not to need a licence.

The regulation seems to have no 'de minimums' limits, the only exemption is 'small handheld cameras', and a strict reading would include devices with only solar panels and temperature probes.

The assumed intent wasn't so much 'what can we do to avoid the FCC', but 'what useful testing can we do of prototype starlink hardware that might also do interesting stuff if it happens to work'. Especially if one of the 'back of the mind' capabilities of this hardware was planetary comms.

Offline Craig_VG

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« Last Edit: 12/22/2017 01:36 PM by Chris Bergin »

Offline Craig_VG

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #372 on: 12/22/2017 01:32 AM »

Offline midnightrider3000

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #373 on: 12/22/2017 02:19 AM »
So I'm curious how the Roadster got to the HIF.

Did Elon just drive it in and toss someone the Keys? "Here ya go?"

This is an original limited quantity Roadster. His baby. All the headaches and heartaches this thing caused while getting Tesla started. There is more of a connection to this car than any other car he's owned (i would think). It's not like dropping off your car for a trade in.  ::)

I know it must have seemed really funny talking about the idea of sending your car into space (or blowing it up :o), but when he handed over the key(s) I just can't help wondering if he thought "Shit, I might have taken this joke just a littttttttttle toooooo far, crap! can't back out now"


Offline nacnud

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #374 on: 12/22/2017 02:26 AM »
In a way it's a sad end for the roadster. Cars are meant to be driven, rockets are meant to fly. Sending Teslas to space or rockets to display defeats their purpose. Still awesome though, especially as it means I can still get to see a Saturn V, someday, maybe even a roadster if I'm lucky (there is on in a museum in Vienna)
« Last Edit: 12/22/2017 02:43 AM by nacnud »

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #375 on: 12/22/2017 02:57 AM »
Musk had to have handed over the roadster a little while back.  As has been pointed out, the batteries and their cooling system are not rated for vacuum, and would almost assuredly develop energetic leaks.  Possibly before you could attempt a TMI-type maneuver.

The batteries and cooling system have to have been removed, as well as the tires having had their inflation cores pulled out, to avoid them over-inflating and eventually exploding in the vacuum.  If any of the roadster systems are going to be powered up at the beginning, to provide super-kewl images of the headlights flashing and the cockpit panels all lit and alive, I imagine they will have to connect the roadster up to the Falcon upper stage's electrical system.

In any event, the conversion of the car to a vacuum-safe payload had to have taken several weeks, and likely wasn't even done at the Cape.  It could have conceivably been done at Hawthorne, the car being crated up and shipped to the Cape for encapsulation.  In fact, that makes a lot of sense -- it would have been useful to have the car there while building the payload module adapter that secures it in the fairing.

Since it appears it will be set at about a 30-degree angle to the base of the payload adapter, I'd say that argues for them planning on leaving the roadster permanently attached to the second stage.
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Online Comga

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #376 on: 12/22/2017 03:04 AM »
Sounds doubtful to me
Deflate the tires to 20 PSIG. They will remain rigid for launch and be just fine in vacuum at 34  PSIA/G.
Drain the brake lines and leave them open.
Just open any A/C system.
Is there a liquid cooling system?  For what?
Would seem to be rather straight forward and quick.
And a waste I am not all that comfortable with.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline johnkrausphotos

Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #377 on: 12/22/2017 03:17 AM »
(I saw the photo, not the Roadster in person.)

Offline meekGee

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #378 on: 12/22/2017 03:26 AM »
One day, not THAT far into the future, it will be possible to go visit a Tesla in solar orbit.  In the middle of effing nowhere, there will be a car.

I cannot think of a more surreal gag.  The ultimate tag.  Elon Musk is about to tag the solar system.
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline midnightrider3000

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #379 on: 12/22/2017 03:50 AM »
In a way it's a sad end for the roadster. Cars are meant to be driven, rockets are meant to fly. Sending Teslas to space or rockets to display defeats their purpose. Still awesome though, especially as it means I can still get to see a Saturn V, someday, maybe even a roadster if I'm lucky (there is on in a museum in Vienna)

One day I could image someone slipping out of their spacecraft and sliding into the front seat of the roadster. Guess that wouldn't really count as being driven. However, it could end up as tourist attraction in the future.  LOL surrounded by cheap space food joints and souvenir stores

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