Author Topic: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion  (Read 65220 times)

Offline rcoppola

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #260 on: 12/03/2017 09:55 PM »
Space Ghost 1962 said something that caught my attention. "It's a launch vehicle for spacecraft..." There's  probably a large subset who think the same. But to me that's the beauty of this. It reminds me of the facial expression and overall reaction Tory Bruno had when Gwynne Shotwell uttered the words "Launch as Commodity" Commodity? COMMODITY? It's too special, too complex, too important, too expensive...no way, no how. How dare you even suggest it...

Throwing a car out into space changes the conversation. It demystifies things a bit. The absurdity makes it inherently relatable. Everyone has a car and can imagine theirs sailing off into space. Not many people have a Spacecraft in their garage. It will be a catalyst to more space related creative thinking than any 6-Billion Journey To Mars posters and hashtags. I can't wait to see the mission patch and Fairing Creative.

I mean, if they have a video/audio stream of the car playing Space Oddity during launch...what a way to kick off a new year. God knows we could use a bit of levity...
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Offline M.E.T.

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #261 on: 12/03/2017 09:57 PM »
If successful we just know the Tesla is going to make a guest appearance in a bunch of future space movies. Some Star Trek or equivalent show will surely have an episode  where the Roadster floats majestically by the observation deck window.

It is going to become a part of humanity's collective space history. Maybe with a dummy Elon sitting behind the steering wheel for all eternity.

Of course, it has to make it to space first.

Offline rockets4life97

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #262 on: 12/03/2017 10:00 PM »
I wouldn't discount the effect of this "stunt" on the SpaceX workforce. Musk has often said the purpose of big goals is to make life meaningful. If your employees feel like their work is meaningful and fun, I think that makes them better workers.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #263 on: 12/03/2017 10:20 PM »
Personal story... Back in the 1990's at Queen's University where Elon attended, the school held an annual electric car competition. I put together a team of six students and decided to enter the race. The rules were fairly open and the university supplied that battery power. We constructed a single seater three wheeled vehicle during the evening hours over 27 days with some help from Ford for motors, other bits and two vans. I remember still constructing the car at 4:00am in the hotel parking lot the day of the race and we were still yet to mount the solar power panel and a closed loop cooling system for the motor which was prone to overheat. I decided to quickly rig a flash evaporator and monitor the temperatures via radio communications with our driver.

   When we showed up we were one of 30 teams  from all around that were set for competition with a few differences all the other teams built their cars during regular course work over the entire year and as mentioned ours in 27 days after classes were over for the day. Many of the other teams were found surrounding the car in the paddock, first because all the other teams were all male and ours was half female including the driver Maria. The other reason was that we had an on board motor controller from a forklift that was programmable with a probit which they were quickly taking photos of...
  The race went well except for my main concern of the overheating Ford supplied motors prove true and we had to make two pit stops to replace the them as they threw the windings. When all was said and done the race was over and we ran the distance finishing 6th out of 30 cars on it's first race ever against former race winners. Queen's university was so impressed with the effort that they called us up to the podium for the "Award of Merit" for our effort and the technology on board the car.

  I don't know if Elon was on campus that day during the race but it is interesting to speculate that his idea for electric cars may have been from his time at Queen's....
« Last Edit: 12/03/2017 10:24 PM by Rocket Science »
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Offline john smith 19

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #264 on: 12/03/2017 10:21 PM »
But to customers of the FH, no, not an effective use. If you wanted to enthuse govt HSF, you'd lob a boilerplate Dragon capsule on a cislunar trajectory. For NASA/ESA/other govt planetary science, you'd lob a satellite/cruse stage like mass with highest C3 (I'd shoot for out of solar system as highest velocity) on an accurate trajectory (possibly shooting by an well know asteroid). For NSS, inject a major mass simulator into a difficult orbit, with a high enough eccentricity for specific reentry in a chosen spot. For large geosats, likewise a mass simulator into a GTO-1500 would be desirable.

Those would be missions that would demonstrate skill and performance. If you do them successively, your repeat-ability becomes encouraging for use by actual customers. It would be the thing that SX's rivals would be chilled to the bone with.

Because it would be worth an greatly increased chance at a few hundred million of revenue, not marketing expense. Yes, I know this doesn't mean anything to most fans. I get that.

As  it is, he's doing them a favor.They don't have to take FH seriously for another few years. But then let's cater to the fans, who a few months later by griping about some other thing like BFS being late ...  ::)
That's all very sensible and a very pragmatic use of resources.

But let's play "I am Elon Musk" for a moment.

You've identified your biggest serious competitor has a very long successful launch record and a strong pre-existing relationship with several large institutional customers. You simply can't match this because you have just not been in the business long enough to do so.

Fortunately for you they are effectively handicapped by joint parents who are completely fixated on short term gains and don't believe there is anything to worry about.

Which suits you just fine.

So you need to test you new LV without obviously demonstrating the level of skills you have in a way that's obvious enough to arouse the concern of your competitors parents.

On this basis any fairly heavy object would be suitable as a surrogate payload.
Sending your car to Mars maintains the "Elon Musk, what a crazzzzy guy, eh?" image, while in fact giving your Operations team a fairly hard test of their skills in trajectory design and propulsion management, while fulfilling the goal that anything SX does is with aim of getting you to Mars betters/faster/cheaper. And of course there is no reason not to add a few (TBD) mods to the vehicle in the process.  ;)

Result. LV tested. Operations team tested carrying out hard (but not obvious) mission. Frog broiling operation continues.

Of course I could be wrong.
« Last Edit: 12/03/2017 10:33 PM by john smith 19 »
"Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry Spencer 1/28/11  Averse to bold? You must be in marketing."It's all in the sequencing" K. Mattingly.  STS-Keeping most of the stakeholders happy most of the time.
So you're going to Mars to seek a better life. What does that mean to you? Always spot a fanbois by how they react to their idols failures.

Online hkultala

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #265 on: 12/03/2017 10:21 PM »
How is the car going from mars transfer orbit to martian orbit? Do they also put draco thrusters to the car?


In one of his tweets Elon wrote:

Quote from: Elon Musk@twitter
Not saying the next gen Roadster special upgrade package *will* definitely enable it to fly short hops, but maybe Ö

Certainly possible. Just a question of safety. Rocket tech applied to a car opens up revolutionary possibilities.

This might be a hint to the thrusters used to put it to martian orbit?


« Last Edit: 12/03/2017 10:24 PM by hkultala »

Offline Endeavour_01

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #266 on: 12/03/2017 10:36 PM »
People do understand viral marketing, and this is that.  It's also a bit of fun.  And of course it accomplishes the objective of the demo mission, as much as a wheel of cheese.
Evaluated it alongside the "wheel of cheese". Formally as a business effect.

The cheese wheel barely trended briefly. Likewise this will as well. Estimate that the amount of "influence" is worth a few million as an advertising campaign. Whoopee.

For comparison, the "landing circus" had a few hundred million, which when it landed successfully went to a half billion. Not bad.

But to customers of the FH, no, not an effective use. If you wanted to enthuse govt HSF, you'd lob a boilerplate Dragon capsule on a cislunar trajectory.


Part of "enthusing" HSF is having the public view it in a positive light. I gave my bi-annual space lecture yesterday (and of course Elon decides to drop this nugget immediately afterwards. We really need to talk about scheduling). The students really enjoyed the humorous tone of the landing failure video SpaceX put out recently. By not taking themselves too seriously SpaceX is creating a lot of positive feeling for HSF.

Launching a car into space has never been done before and as mentioned up thread it brings to light the reality that space is (and will be more of) a part of everyday life.

Also if SpaceX wants to they can launch a boilerplate Dragon or whatever else is considered "useful" on the next flight. What really matters in the eyes of potential customers for this first flight isn't the payload, it's whether the rocket blows up or not.
I cheer for both NASA and commercial space. For SLS, Orion, Falcon 9, Falcon Heavy, Dragon, Starliner, Cygnus and all the rest!
I was blessed to see the launch of Space Shuttle Endeavour on STS-99. The launch was beyond amazing. My 8-year old mind was blown. I remember the noise and seeing the exhaust pour out of the shuttle as it lifted off. I remember staring and watching it soar while it was visible in the clear blue sky. It was one of the greatest moments of my life and I will never forget it.

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #267 on: 12/03/2017 11:34 PM »
Launching his Roadster has much more impact reaching a global mass audience.
There are better means for reaching a global mass audience.

Example, using his existing marketing trope - have everyone send you one of their spare car keys that you toss into the trunk/passenger compartment. There - many thousand people have a personal stake in the launch. Millions of better ways if your objective is that, other than his current trope.

If Musk can launch a stock roadster (no course adjustment equipment) and nail his intended heliocentric orbit, that would be pretty impressive imo.
As long as he has enough thrust/duration for boosters/US, he could be off by as much as 30 degrees in any direction and make a heliocentric orbit. So sans LOM or severe under performance, no big deal.

If you're going to do anything, do it with skill and accuracy. If it blows up anyway, its still the same. And if it doesn't, then every mission second further buys you that much more mission success. That you accomplished so much. That's a certain truth with no cynicism.

We heard a lot of the same 'not serious' discussion when he named the Drone ships Just Read The Instructions and Of Course I Still Love You.  Doesn't seem to have reduced their reliability or his success at bringing boosters or customers on board.
Having read the books, and understanding the hidden message back to BO, quite enjoyed that exchange.

Quote
Maintaining your sense of humor or whimsy is not a 'character flaw'. 
Acting like the steely eyed rocket man is better? 
...perhaps to some...
Not humor at all - I read it as a decadent cynicism, a denial of the need to care. Not at all the same. It cheapens things to no purpose.

Throwing a car out into space changes the conversation. It demystifies things a bit. The absurdity makes it inherently relatable.
Everyone has a car and can imagine theirs sailing off into space.
Everyone has toilet paper, but imagining it in space doesn't help all that much.

Quote
Not many people have a Spacecraft in their garage. It will be a catalyst to more space related creative thinking than any 6-Billion Journey To Mars posters and hashtags. I can't wait to see the mission patch and Fairing Creative.
Don't get the connection. "Share the vacuous experience?" I'm straining, but really can't get this.

Quote
I mean, if they have a video/audio stream of the car playing Space Oddity during launch...what a way to kick off a new year. God knows we could use a bit of levity...
So I'm guessing, but ... "performance art?"

Perhaps what it is, is that having a Dada-esque expression appeals ... where the functional art of something with a direct linkage to the real world ... has an ... "advantage?" Am I getting close?

You've identified your biggest serious competitor has a very long successful launch record and a strong pre-existing relationship with several large institutional customers. You simply can't match this because you have just not been in the business long enough to do so.
Sounds ... fatalistic?

Quote
Fortunately for you they are effectively handicapped by joint parents who are completely fixated on short term gains and don't believe there is anything to worry about.

Which suits you just fine.

So you need to test you new LV without obviously demonstrating the level of skills you have in a way that's obvious enough to arouse the concern of your competitors parents.
So the advantage gained is to not "scare the competition"?

Quote
On this basis any fairly heavy object would be suitable as a surrogate payload.
Sending your car to Mars maintains the "Elon Musk, what a crazzzzy guy, eh?" image, while in fact giving your Operations team a fairly hard test of their skills in trajectory design and propulsion management, while fulfilling the goal that anything SX does is with aim of getting you to Mars betters/faster/cheaper.
Advantage of "crazzzy guy" please?

Look, any mission you fly will have people pouring over it examining vehicle performance - that's all the same.

Sounds to me all we're saying here is coming up with ways to "handicap" (as in golf) the performance, in asking for a "mulligan" in advance?

By not taking themselves too seriously SpaceX is creating a lot of positive feeling for HSF.
Because they don't have to aspire to the skills that might "distance" them from those who do launch spacecraft?

(You know, you can do the opposite. You can take them with video inside a SC launch prep and encapsulation, where they can be a part of all the goes on in a launch. Woutldn't this be more "genuine"?)

Quote
Launching a car into space has never been done before and as mentioned up thread it brings to light the reality that space is (and will be more of) a part of everyday life.
Back to launching toilet paper, car keys, or even the Mona Lisa, How about an X-box or an iPhone?

I wonder if what is really going on here is an attachment with pop culture. Like trying to make Austin Power's "Big Boy" rocket real, as a means to bring things down to a common trope, because people prefer fantasy to reality. Personally reality is much more to me.

Quote
Also if SpaceX wants to they can launch a boilerplate Dragon or whatever else is considered "useful" on the next flight.
Pardon me but ... why not the first flight? Then if a second, there's two useful things, not just one?

Quote
What really matters in the eyes of potential customers for this first flight isn't the payload, it's whether the rocket blows up or not.
So ... planning for failure instead of planning for success? When you go to launch, you spend a lot of time working down the odds.

Sorry to all you thoughtful people. Not trying to be insulting at all. I guess I'm just a hard case ...
« Last Edit: 12/03/2017 11:55 PM by gongora »

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #268 on: 12/04/2017 12:28 AM »
People do understand viral marketing, and this is that.  It's also a bit of fun.  And of course it accomplishes the objective of the demo mission, as much as a wheel of cheese.
Evaluated it alongside the "wheel of cheese". Formally as a business effect.

The cheese wheel barely trended briefly. Likewise this will as well. Estimate that the amount of "influence" is worth a few million as an advertising campaign. Whoopee.

For comparison, the "landing circus" had a few hundred million, which when it landed successfully went to a half billion. Not bad.

But to customers of the FH, no, not an effective use. If you wanted to enthuse govt HSF, you'd lob a boilerplate Dragon capsule on a cislunar trajectory.


Part of "enthusing" HSF is having the public view it in a positive light. I gave my bi-annual space lecture yesterday (and of course Elon decides to drop this nugget immediately afterwards. We really need to talk about scheduling). The students really enjoyed the humorous tone of the landing failure video SpaceX put out recently. By not taking themselves too seriously SpaceX is creating a lot of positive feeling for HSF.

Launching a car into space has never been done before and as mentioned up thread it brings to light the reality that space is (and will be more of) a part of everyday life.

Well, we sort of already did during Apollo... ;)
https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo_lrv.html
« Last Edit: 12/04/2017 12:34 AM by Rocket Science »
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Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #269 on: 12/04/2017 12:35 AM »
People do understand viral marketing, and this is that.  It's also a bit of fun.  And of course it accomplishes the objective of the demo mission, as much as a wheel of cheese.
Evaluated it alongside the "wheel of cheese". Formally as a business effect.

The cheese wheel barely trended briefly. Likewise this will as well. Estimate that the amount of "influence" is worth a few million as an advertising campaign. Whoopee.

For comparison, the "landing circus" had a few hundred million, which when it landed successfully went to a half billion. Not bad.

But to customers of the FH, no, not an effective use. If you wanted to enthuse govt HSF, you'd lob a boilerplate Dragon capsule on a cislunar trajectory.


Part of "enthusing" HSF is having the public view it in a positive light. I gave my bi-annual space lecture yesterday (and of course Elon decides to drop this nugget immediately afterwards. We really need to talk about scheduling). The students really enjoyed the humorous tone of the landing failure video SpaceX put out recently. By not taking themselves too seriously SpaceX is creating a lot of positive feeling for HSF.

Launching a car into space has never been done before and as mentioned up thread it brings to light the reality that space is (and will be more of) a part of everyday life.

Well, we sort did during Apollo... ;)
https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo_lrv.html

A glorified golf cart. :P Politely putting it. The polar opposite of any Tesla! ;)

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #270 on: 12/04/2017 12:44 AM »
People do understand viral marketing, and this is that.  It's also a bit of fun.  And of course it accomplishes the objective of the demo mission, as much as a wheel of cheese.
Evaluated it alongside the "wheel of cheese". Formally as a business effect.

The cheese wheel barely trended briefly. Likewise this will as well. Estimate that the amount of "influence" is worth a few million as an advertising campaign. Whoopee.

For comparison, the "landing circus" had a few hundred million, which when it landed successfully went to a half billion. Not bad.

But to customers of the FH, no, not an effective use. If you wanted to enthuse govt HSF, you'd lob a boilerplate Dragon capsule on a cislunar trajectory.


Part of "enthusing" HSF is having the public view it in a positive light. I gave my bi-annual space lecture yesterday (and of course Elon decides to drop this nugget immediately afterwards. We really need to talk about scheduling). The students really enjoyed the humorous tone of the landing failure video SpaceX put out recently. By not taking themselves too seriously SpaceX is creating a lot of positive feeling for HSF.

Launching a car into space has never been done before and as mentioned up thread it brings to light the reality that space is (and will be more of) a part of everyday life.

Well, we sort did during Apollo... ;)
https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo_lrv.html

A glorified golf cart. :P Politely putting it. The polar opposite of any Tesla! ;)
It at least had a functional, operational purpose. In space.

Not true of the Tesla.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #271 on: 12/04/2017 12:46 AM »
People do understand viral marketing, and this is that.  It's also a bit of fun.  And of course it accomplishes the objective of the demo mission, as much as a wheel of cheese.
Evaluated it alongside the "wheel of cheese". Formally as a business effect.

The cheese wheel barely trended briefly. Likewise this will as well. Estimate that the amount of "influence" is worth a few million as an advertising campaign. Whoopee.

For comparison, the "landing circus" had a few hundred million, which when it landed successfully went to a half billion. Not bad.

But to customers of the FH, no, not an effective use. If you wanted to enthuse govt HSF, you'd lob a boilerplate Dragon capsule on a cislunar trajectory.


Part of "enthusing" HSF is having the public view it in a positive light. I gave my bi-annual space lecture yesterday (and of course Elon decides to drop this nugget immediately afterwards. We really need to talk about scheduling). The students really enjoyed the humorous tone of the landing failure video SpaceX put out recently. By not taking themselves too seriously SpaceX is creating a lot of positive feeling for HSF.

Launching a car into space has never been done before and as mentioned up thread it brings to light the reality that space is (and will be more of) a part of everyday life.

Well, we sort did during Apollo... ;)
https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo_lrv.html

A glorified golf cart. :P Politely putting it. The polar opposite of any Tesla! ;)
Same could be said for Carl Benz's first car compared to a new Mercedes... It all starts with the pioneers... Put in some fresh batteries in the LRV  and it's good to go again... :)
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Offline pb2000

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #272 on: 12/04/2017 12:55 AM »

If Musk can launch a stock roadster (no course adjustment equipment) and nail his intended heliocentric orbit, that would be pretty impressive imo.
As long as he has enough thrust/duration for boosters/US, he could be off by as much as 30 degrees in any direction and make a heliocentric orbit. So sans LOM or severe under performance, no big deal.

If you're going to do anything, do it with skill and accuracy. If it blows up anyway, its still the same. And if it doesn't, then every mission second further buys you that much more mission success. That you accomplished so much. That's a certain truth with no cynicism.
Hence why he has to nail it if the car doesn't have any course correction thrusters. Missing by a million miles (or to a lesser extent hitting mars) would be almost as bad as blowing up the rocket on the pad.

We still haven't heard definitively if he intends the car to enter a stable mars orbit, or merely do a flyby, but either way, if the payload ends up on the right trajectory, it'll be a win for SpaceX.
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Online Johnnyhinbos

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #273 on: 12/04/2017 01:04 AM »
People do understand viral marketing, and this is that.  It's also a bit of fun.  And of course it accomplishes the objective of the demo mission, as much as a wheel of cheese.
Evaluated it alongside the "wheel of cheese". Formally as a business effect.

The cheese wheel barely trended briefly. Likewise this will as well. Estimate that the amount of "influence" is worth a few million as an advertising campaign. Whoopee.

For comparison, the "landing circus" had a few hundred million, which when it landed successfully went to a half billion. Not bad.

But to customers of the FH, no, not an effective use. If you wanted to enthuse govt HSF, you'd lob a boilerplate Dragon capsule on a cislunar trajectory.


Part of "enthusing" HSF is having the public view it in a positive light. I gave my bi-annual space lecture yesterday (and of course Elon decides to drop this nugget immediately afterwards. We really need to talk about scheduling). The students really enjoyed the humorous tone of the landing failure video SpaceX put out recently. By not taking themselves too seriously SpaceX is creating a lot of positive feeling for HSF.

Launching a car into space has never been done before and as mentioned up thread it brings to light the reality that space is (and will be more of) a part of everyday life.

Well, we sort did during Apollo... ;)
https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo_lrv.html

A glorified golf cart. :P Politely putting it. The polar opposite of any Tesla! ;)
It at least had a functional, operational purpose. In space.

Not true of the Tesla.
So therefore, you think sending ice cream into space serves no purpose. Itís a waste of valuable up mass that could otherwise be put towards useful science?

If no, then where do you draw the line? It has to be at some point - some quantifiable delineation.

Is it at some level of pleasure (that of one of Now hundreds of ISS residents vs that of one single impactful individual who can actually shape the course of future space flight)?

Or is it based on some other metric? Would you argue that the record on voyager(s) was a waste of time, money, and effort? If not, then if a record was put in the Roadster would that be better (after all - itíll be up there for a billion years, give or take a few orbits).

You could argue that thereís no connection between the two, but there is.

I agree that on one level itís a bit more Dr Who than Carl Sagan, but if Elonís Gambit inspires just one individual who then grows up to develop the next breakthrough in astrophysics or rocket propulsion, wouldnít it be worth it?

Where do you put a limit on inspiration...?
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #274 on: 12/04/2017 01:10 AM »
I think it's great PR that ties in both companies Tesla/SpaceX and probably their sharp accountants will try to write-off the cost tax wise...
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Offline su27k

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #275 on: 12/04/2017 01:35 AM »
If you wanted to enthuse govt HSF, you'd lob a boilerplate Dragon capsule on a cislunar trajectory.

I think Jim has shot down this idea many times...

Quote
For NASA/ESA/other govt planetary science, you'd lob a satellite/cruse stage like mass with highest C3 (I'd shoot for out of solar system as highest velocity) on an accurate trajectory (possibly shooting by an well know asteroid).

This is basically what SpaceX has chosen to do, it's not highest C3 (C3 is not FH's strong suit anyway) but a TMI, which should be of interest to any space agency. A Mars launch also re-affirms company's commitment to Mars when the government is pivoting towards the Moon, kind of important for moral I'd think.

As for accuracy, I'm sure they'll measure it after the burn and report the numbers to interested customers. That's all the customers want, just a number, they won't care whether the mass is simulated using a car or a sperm whale, as long as it has the right mass.

Quote
Those would be missions that would demonstrate skill and performance.

Launching a car doesn't prevent a demonstration of skill and performance, what they use to simulate the mass is completely orthogonal to performance and accuracy, Newton's law made sure of that.
« Last Edit: 12/04/2017 01:37 AM by su27k »

Offline Endeavour_01

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #276 on: 12/04/2017 01:44 AM »

Launching a car into space has never been done before and as mentioned up thread it brings to light the reality that space is (and will be more of) a part of everyday life.

Well, we sort of already did during Apollo... ;)
https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo_lrv.html

Good point. First sports car then.  ;)
I cheer for both NASA and commercial space. For SLS, Orion, Falcon 9, Falcon Heavy, Dragon, Starliner, Cygnus and all the rest!
I was blessed to see the launch of Space Shuttle Endeavour on STS-99. The launch was beyond amazing. My 8-year old mind was blown. I remember the noise and seeing the exhaust pour out of the shuttle as it lifted off. I remember staring and watching it soar while it was visible in the clear blue sky. It was one of the greatest moments of my life and I will never forget it.

Offline daver

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #277 on: 12/04/2017 02:25 AM »
I think this was the first mention of Tesla going to space.  WTG Helodriver.
They should use the flight to test the fairing, and with the same mindset that put the first wheel of cheese in space, under that fairing should be a Tesla roadster. The first car in space and with a reignition of the second stage, the first car in solar orbit or on an escape trajectory out of the solar system. Inside the car, cameras and a telemetry system, powered by the car's lithium ion cells, which should last while a while if low powered enough or indefinitely with solar panels on the hood, roof and rear deck lid. Imagine the marketing and PR buzz.

Online Formica

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #278 on: 12/04/2017 02:48 AM »
We still haven't heard definitively if he intends the car to enter a stable mars orbit, or merely do a flyby, but either way, if the payload ends up on the right trajectory, it'll be a win for SpaceX.

According to The Bad Astronomer, they will not be doing MOI, just TMI to a Mars precessing orbit. This is direct from Elon himself to Mr. Plait.
I'm just a space fan, please correct me if I'm wrong!

Offline rakaydos

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Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #279 on: 12/04/2017 03:00 AM »

You've identified your biggest serious competitor has a very long successful launch record and a strong pre-existing relationship with several large institutional customers. You simply can't match this because you have just not been in the business long enough to do so.
Sounds ... fatalistic?

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Fortunately for you they are effectively handicapped by joint parents who are completely fixated on short term gains and don't believe there is anything to worry about.

Which suits you just fine.

So you need to test you new LV without obviously demonstrating the level of skills you have in a way that's obvious enough to arouse the concern of your competitors parents.
So the advantage gained is to not "scare the competition"?

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On this basis any fairly heavy object would be suitable as a surrogate payload.
Sending your car to Mars maintains the "Elon Musk, what a crazzzzy guy, eh?" image, while in fact giving your Operations team a fairly hard test of their skills in trajectory design and propulsion management, while fulfilling the goal that anything SX does is with aim of getting you to Mars betters/faster/cheaper.
Advantage of "crazzzy guy" please?

Look, any mission you fly will have people pouring over it examining vehicle performance - that's all the same.

Sounds to me all we're saying here is coming up with ways to "handicap" (as in golf) the performance, in asking for a "mulligan" in advance?

The point is to have Tony Bruno begging Boeing and Lockeed for priority funding to develop SMART reuse to compete with SpaceX, and his masters laughing off SpaceX without realizing what a powerhouse Elon's company is. Just because the experts know the truth, doesnt mean the people with the money believe it. Just look at Climate change.

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