Author Topic: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion  (Read 64748 times)

Online docmordrid

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4385
  • Michigan
  • Liked: 1507
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #100 on: 12/02/2017 02:57 PM »
Color and shape w/hardtop.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2017 03:02 PM by docmordrid »
DM

Offline Pete

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 151
  • Cubicle
  • Liked: 124
  • Likes Given: 72
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #101 on: 12/02/2017 02:57 PM »
I haven't noticed any FCC filings under the SpaceX name for this payload.  Unless they're registering a payload under some foreign subsidiary that only communicates with ground stations outside the U.S., it should have FCC filings if they intend to communicate with it.
What if they were using NASA resources for deep space communication? Would an FCC filing be necessary in that case?
What communications?
The way i see it, the FH will shove it in the right direction, Hopefully separate from the payload/car, and that's it. No further comms , control or anything just a car drifting into a Mars-apogee solar orbit.
Well, likely some onboard cam coverage using the same sort of tech that we already have on the second stage, for the first couple minutes after launch.

We asked for a cool payload, Spacex needs a cheap and noncritical boilerplate mass, and this would be a very nice combination of the two!

Offline inonepiece

  • Member
  • Posts: 63
  • Liked: 32
  • Likes Given: 61
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #102 on: 12/02/2017 03:00 PM »
I am not really believing Elon on his latest tweet. I would still put my money on the pad abort Dragon inside the fairing. Or any pre flown Dragon. The adaptor for this has to be easier than for a Roadster. Anyone know where the pad abort Dragon is?

Well, it has been confirmed by multiple reputable members of the press and by another SpaceX manager. Tesla Roadster is it.
Right: Why wouldn't we believe him, he's a showman (of the best sort) and it's guaranteed to get SpaceX AND Tesla in the news.

We know he's read some Iain M. Banks.  In the short Banks story "The State of the Art", Diziet Sma, a citizen of The Culture, travels to 1970s Earth in "a large red Volvo station wagon".

Offline Ludus

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 898
  • Liked: 343
  • Likes Given: 172
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #103 on: 12/02/2017 03:06 PM »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

Mars orbit not in orbit around Mars would fit Russellís Teapot exactly,  be easier to achieve, and not generate any silly objections about planetary protection.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31504
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9869
  • Likes Given: 307
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #104 on: 12/02/2017 03:07 PM »
Wonder if Road and Track could schedule a trial between the Roadster and Curiosity?

On Mars?  That would be a crater vs a functioning rover

Online cscott

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2638
  • Liked: 1843
  • Likes Given: 658
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #105 on: 12/02/2017 03:08 PM »
Speculation seems to be split about whether this will be a basically-unmodified roadster pushed off into the void (with cameras on S2 watching it go), or else a souped up deal with some surplus superdracos bolted on the trunk, conformal solar panels scavenged from dragon 2, etc, capable of making Mars insertion burn with some low but nonzero probability of success.

If you're feeling ambitious, I'd take a shot at rendering both scenarios.  The former should be fairly easy, and at a relatively large distance from mars (it would be using the stock S2 telemetry); the latter would be a Mad Max assemblage of pieces from other SpaceX ships, and end up close to Mars. Bonus points for showing the orbital insertion burn.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2017 03:09 PM by cscott »

Online Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27135
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 7105
  • Likes Given: 4936
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #106 on: 12/02/2017 03:11 PM »
I'd go for stock. Anything else would cost millions extra.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Online docmordrid

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4385
  • Michigan
  • Liked: 1507
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #107 on: 12/02/2017 03:15 PM »
The thing keeping my imagination buzzing about an enhanced Roadster is this tweet from a couple of weeks ago. Granted, it seems about Gen 2, but rocket parts and flying?

"Elon Musk ✔ @elonmusk
Not saying the next gen Roadster special upgrade package *will* definitely enable it to fly short hops, but maybe

Certainly possible. Just a question of safety. Rocket tech applied to a car opens up revolutionary possibilities.
2:01 PM - Nov 19, 2017"
« Last Edit: 12/02/2017 03:18 PM by docmordrid »
DM

Online Bynaus

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 419
  • Planetary Scientist
  • Switzerland
  • Liked: 280
  • Likes Given: 183
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #108 on: 12/02/2017 03:18 PM »
For the "billion years" to be true, the Roadster would really have to be in orbit around Mars (in a carefully crafted orbit which isn't easily destabilized by flybys with the martian satellites, and is far enough from the atmosphere to exclude orbital decay).

If the Roadster is in heliocentric orbit (i.e., just crossing Mars' orbit around the sun), its dynamical lifetime will be no longer than for a near-Earth asteroid, on the order of a few 10 million years. This the typical time it can spend in this region of space without being thrown into the sun by an encounter with a planet or through orbital changes induced by resonances etc (or, much less likely, collide with one of the planets). Musk is probably just unaware of this though. ;)

Online docmordrid

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4385
  • Michigan
  • Liked: 1507
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #109 on: 12/02/2017 03:23 PM »
Sun-Mars L4/L5?
DM

Offline billh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
  • Houston
  • Liked: 154
  • Likes Given: 118
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #110 on: 12/02/2017 03:24 PM »
I don't think there will be any pictures from deep space. SpaceX is not going to spend millions making it into a functioning spacecraft, and even if they did would NASA ever approve using the Deep Space Network for anything so frivolous?

Offline rakaydos

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 290
  • Liked: 125
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #111 on: 12/02/2017 03:38 PM »
I don't think there will be any pictures from deep space. SpaceX is not going to spend millions making it into a functioning spacecraft, and even if they did would NASA ever approve using the Deep Space Network for anything so frivolous?
Y'know... Starlink is going up in just a few years... just saying.

Offline nacnud

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2128
  • Liked: 299
  • Likes Given: 162
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #112 on: 12/02/2017 03:40 PM »
To be honest it's all speculation for now but, Elon has the car, they manufacture an autonomous spacecraft (Dragon), and they are in the process of developing a global communication network (Starlink), they have the motivation (why, why not?) So there is the capability of doing exactly what was tweeted, or at least capable people available to look at the problem.

Beyond that it's whether we take at information at face value or not. So why would they mislead?

Offline whitelancer64

Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #113 on: 12/02/2017 03:42 PM »
I want to see the PAF for the Roadster  :D
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline x15_fan

  • Member
  • Posts: 43
  • United States
  • Liked: 17
  • Likes Given: 204
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #114 on: 12/02/2017 03:44 PM »
I don't think there will be any pictures from deep space. SpaceX is not going to spend millions making it into a functioning spacecraft, and even if they did would NASA ever approve using the Deep Space Network for anything so frivolous?
Y'know... Starlink is going up in just a few years... just saying.
What does Starlink have to do with deep space communication?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline dror

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 556
  • Israel
  • Liked: 128
  • Likes Given: 353
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #115 on: 12/02/2017 03:44 PM »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

Mars orbit not in orbit around Mars would fit Russellís Teapot exactly,  be easier to achieve, and not generate any silly objections about planetary protection.
Thanks for the post and link.
Though, I don't understand why so many people around here treats planetary protection as silly.
Finding life on another planet would be THE greatest scientific discovery ever. Anything that could seriously undermine the credibility of such a potential discovery should be avoided. And, there's the chance of wreaking havoc to an entire plant.
(Do we have a thread about it?)
"If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal. "
Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot

Offline nacnud

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2128
  • Liked: 299
  • Likes Given: 162
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #116 on: 12/02/2017 03:53 PM »
I don't think there will be any pictures from deep space. SpaceX is not going to spend millions making it into a functioning spacecraft, and even if they did would NASA ever approve using the Deep Space Network for anything so frivolous?
Y'know... Starlink is going up in just a few years... just saying.
What does Starlink have to do with deep space communication?
Communication engineers, lots of them (presumably)

Offline Kaputnik

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2806
  • Liked: 454
  • Likes Given: 397
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #117 on: 12/02/2017 03:58 PM »
Can we infer that the Hail-Mary upper stage recovery attempt is now off the table?
Waiting for joy and raptor

Offline billh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
  • Houston
  • Liked: 154
  • Likes Given: 118
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #118 on: 12/02/2017 03:58 PM »
A couple of practical questions:

1. How long (and how far) could communication be maintained with the second stage? The payload cam we see on almost every F9 launch can presumably send pictures back.

2. How long (and how far) could an object the size of a Roadster be tracked by optical or radar astronomy?

Offline wilbobaggins

  • Member
  • Posts: 24
  • Uk
  • Liked: 7
  • Likes Given: 6
Re: Falcon Heavy Demo Mission Payload Discussion
« Reply #119 on: 12/02/2017 04:13 PM »
I'd go for stock. Anything else would cost millions extra.

Well I'd like to think, given the cost of the mission anyway due to the rocket they would put some stuff on it to make it worthwhile. I'd even go as far to think they would send something like a dragon capsule but with a roadster on the front.

It's not every day you are lobbing a rocket with several tonnes payload to spare (even with landing every core, the roadster won't be close to maximum payload)

Perhaps it will look a little like the cargo dream chaser but with the roadster instead of the shuttle.

Wouldn't cost too much seeing as dragon could be reused one from an iss mission.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2017 04:14 PM by wilbobaggins »

Tags: