Author Topic: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper? ('Oumuamua)  (Read 70747 times)

Offline Star One

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #140 on: 11/20/2017 07:55 PM »
JPL video complete with spooky electronic music.


Online gosnold

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #141 on: 11/20/2017 08:05 PM »
I'm convinced:
I've got an an alternate theory:

Offline sanman

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #142 on: 11/20/2017 08:19 PM »
I'm convinced:
<cue spooky music>

Offline Star One

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #143 on: 11/20/2017 08:23 PM »
So let me get this straight the first interstellar object we detect just happens to look like Rama!

Online jebbo

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #144 on: 11/20/2017 08:32 PM »
ish.

Much smaller and clearly not as regular but with a very elongated profile. You can as easily compare it to a sausage :-)

The colour matches D asteroids pretty well

--- Tony

Online hop

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #145 on: 11/20/2017 08:40 PM »
10:1! That's even more extreme than the first estimates... That elongated cylinderoid shape will have the web go crazy... perhaps we should have sticked to "Rama" for the name! :)
There's some disagreement between different groups about both the color and shape, I wouldn't put too much weight on the 10:1 over earlier estimates just yet.

For those without access, Nature paper is available from the ESO release https://www.eso.org/public/unitedkingdom/news/eso1737/

Online jebbo

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #146 on: 11/20/2017 08:57 PM »
A good discussion of colour from Meg Schwamb here https://twitter.com/megschwamb/status/932660021623644160
« Last Edit: 11/20/2017 08:58 PM by jebbo »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #147 on: 11/20/2017 09:18 PM »
You can as easily compare it to a sausage :-)

I am a big fan of comparing planetary objects to breakfast foods. But it is not easy to do.


Offline Helodriver

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #148 on: 11/20/2017 09:24 PM »
I'm just glad that we still have Humpback whales in the ocean, and the ancient long thin large metallic interloper left us in peace because of it.


« Last Edit: 11/20/2017 09:47 PM by Helodriver »

Offline sanman

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #149 on: 11/20/2017 09:25 PM »
Maybe ages ago somebody out there in the universe spotted us on one of their habitable exoplanet surveys, and decided to send something our way.

Offline eeergo

Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #150 on: 11/20/2017 09:25 PM »
Interesting to note that the paper estimates at least one >250m diameter interstellar object present at <1 AU from the Sun *at any given time* (!!)
-DaviD-

Offline Star One

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #151 on: 11/20/2017 09:33 PM »
ish.

Much smaller and clearly not as regular but with a very elongated profile. You can as easily compare it to a sausage :-)

The colour matches D asteroids pretty well

--- Tony

It also may have a high metal content, you can kind of see why its caught people’s attention.

By the way here’s Jim Oberg’s thoughts on the matter. He asks some interesting questions in this post.

Quote
This is basically one way 'first contact' might look. So it is truly exciting, and fun to enjoy the common well-deserved excitement.

One point -- nobody's keeping anything secret, apparently, although they could have. Unless there have been radio intercepts, or laser beam flashes. It might be prudent to broaden the observation instrumentation array just in case there were artificial signals that normal astronomical searching wouldn't look for.

Just in case.

How likely would it be that something randomly passing through the solar system would get so close to the sun?

OR -- are only those passers-by getting that close bright enough to be noticed by existing sky surveys?

To find the farther-out and dimmer ones, what wide-field search strategy would be productive, up to and including Hubble?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1191385/pg2
« Last Edit: 11/20/2017 09:38 PM by Star One »

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #152 on: 11/20/2017 10:14 PM »
While I doubt that this is anything more that just an asteroid, I would think that it likely has a very high metal content, as most asteroids in our solar system tend to be more rounded, without the high length h to width ratio that this seems to have.  Assuming a high iron content, I would not be entirely suprised if the reddish color is caused by atomic oxygen, oxidizing the surface over billions of years in interstellar space.
My God!  It's full of universes!

Offline sanman

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #153 on: 11/20/2017 11:46 PM »
It's being assumed that it's an asteroid - but how would they really be able to tell that it's something else? They don't seem to have actually imaged it, and they've only been able to vaguely determine its dimensions. It's assumed that the object is an asteroid, because that's what we expect it to be. It's ruled out from being a comet because there's no tail, etc.

If an artificially-made object of the same approximate dimensions were to pass through our solar system like this, then how would we really be able to tell that's it's not an asteroid? We'd need an actual image of it.

Offline KelvinZero

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #154 on: 11/21/2017 12:16 AM »
Suppose it turns out that this shape is common for interstellar visitors. Can anyone think of a reason?

Perhaps some process like this could form a bridge, and perhaps it needs
(a) The harder cosmic radiation of interstellar space or
(b) A total lack of solar wind that would normally blow away the dust before it does something interesting.

Just throwing it out there, what about magnetised dust? We have all seen what magnets do to iron filings. Imagine spotting an asteroid sized version of that floating in space. I think it would throw the the media into a frenzy shouting aliens, but it would be a totally natural phenomenon.

Or how about this: A binary consisting of two asteroids with different composition. Wouldn't cosmic radiation tend to make a slightly different electric charge between them? This charge could pull dust to the pointiest point facing the other asteroid. Perhaps over eons you could get a sort of stalagmite-stalactite bridge growing between them.

(edit) or maybe you do not need a different charge. Maybe they build up the same charge, and dust is pulled to the pointiest point facing away from the other. So it might end up looking like two blades of a propeller with nothing connecting them.
« Last Edit: 11/21/2017 12:21 AM by KelvinZero »

Online hop

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #155 on: 11/21/2017 12:59 AM »
If an artificially-made object of the same approximate dimensions were to pass through our solar system like this, then how would we really be able to tell that's it's not an asteroid?  We'd need an actual image of it.
Imaging is totally out of the question for objects this size. If it had been spotted earlier, radar might have been possible.

A spectrum could strongly suggest one way or the other. Someone would probably notice if it was covered in gold foil or titanium dioxide paint. In this case, it appears consistent with some known solar system bodies, but being featureless it doesn't tell us definitively that it's made of the same stuff.

Also worth noting: The size estimates assume an albedo similar to the natural objects with similar colors. If our own spacecraft are anything to go by, an artificial object would likely be much more reflective, and correspondingly smaller. We might notice this in thermal IR, which is hopefully forthcoming from Spitzer. OTOH, who knows what a few million years of cosmic radiation does to paint and Kapton...

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #156 on: 11/21/2017 01:08 AM »
Going with extreme suppositions;  What if it is a gigantic iron pyrite crystal?  In a magnitized environment, after a supernova, it could be possible, in microgravity, for truly  epic scale crystal to form.  At least in theory.
My God!  It's full of universes!

Online matthewkantar

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #157 on: 11/21/2017 01:47 AM »
As much as I love the idea of this being a mini Rama, this object is tumbling. so not likely a probe or passenger ship.


Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #158 on: 11/21/2017 01:57 AM »
As much as I love the idea of this being a mini Rama, this object is tumbling. so not likely a probe or passenger ship.

Even if it WERE some kind of mini Rama, millions, or perhaps billions of years in interstellar space, would probably be too much for even the most robust technologies.
My God!  It's full of universes!

Online Bynaus

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Re: Hyperbolic Hyperbole or Interstellar Interloper?
« Reply #159 on: 11/21/2017 05:47 AM »
Where does the "high metal content" idea pushed by some in this thread come from (this is how rumors get started...)? There's no way we could tell given the observations so far. The elongated shape of the object certainly doesn't require it. D type asteroids are thought to be compositionally similar to CI chondrites like Orgueil or Ivuna (they have similar reflectance spectra): these are black, mostly featureless objects with no iron/nickel metal left (all oxidized, but total Fe content ~18%). Scroll down to Orgueil or Ivuna on this page to see a picture: http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/July09/Meteorites.London.Museum.html

For color comparisons, see also this post by Michele Bannister: https://twitter.com/astrokiwi/status/931493521919545344

I guess it will be some time until the community finds a consistent light-curve-shape / rotation rate / body proportions model that everybody can agree with. Its just a pitty to see once more how the "publish or perish" culture leads to the publication of so many half-baked articles instead of a few, really good ones a few years down the road.
« Last Edit: 11/21/2017 05:49 AM by Bynaus »
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