Author Topic: Telesat's Lightspeed LEO Constellation  (Read 38687 times)

Offline OceanCat

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Telesat  publishes Q4-2022 quarterly report, finally admits won't meet FCC milestones for Lightspeed, says might not get extension, explains ITU milestones but won't mention 01-JAN-23 deadline for milestone 1 as in Q4-2021 report. Is Lightspeed dead?

https://twitter.com/Megaconstellati/status/1641148573659037720

https://spacenews.com/telesat-eyes-2026-for-first-lightspeed-launches-amid-funding-delays/

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Telesat now expects to start deploying satellites for Lightspeed around 2026, six years later than originally planned as talks to fund the low Earth orbit broadband constellation drag on.

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Speaking during the company’s quarterly earnings call with analysts, Goldberg said inflationary pressures have since stabilized but he did not give an update on Lightspeed costs or launch agreements for the nearly 200 satellites to be built by Europe’s Thales Alenia Space.

Telesat has previously said it plans to use rockets still under development by Blue Origin and Relativity Space to deploy the constellation.

Telesat has left its deal with Thales Alenia for manufacturing of its Lightspeed constellation. The 198 satellite LEO network will now be manufactured by MDA, which is expected to save Telesat $2 billion. The satellites are also expected to be slightly smaller then the previous design while maintaining the same levels of performance. The first 156 satellites will be funded through equity contribution from Telesat and other vendor funding, with the remaining satellites to be funded by initial Lightspeed cashflow. Launches still expected to start in mid 2026, with global service starting in late 2027. The launch vehicles to be used were not mentioned in this release, but I believe Blue and/or Relativity have been considered in the past.

https://www.telesat.com/press/press-releases/telesat-contracts-mda-as-prime-satellite-manufacturer-for-its-advanced-telesat-lightspeed-low-earth-orbit-constellation/ [Aug 11]

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OTTAWA, CANADA – August 11, 2023 –Telesat (NASDAQ and TSX: TSAT), one of the world’s largest and most innovative satellite operators, today announced that space technology company MDA Ltd. (TSX: MDA) will build 198 advanced satellites for the Telesat Lightspeed Low Earth Orbit (LEO) program. Telesat also announced that Telesat Lightspeed is now fully funded through global service delivery taking into account the company’s own equity contribution, certain vendor financing, and aggregate funding commitments from its Canadian federal and provincial government partners.   
« Last Edit: 08/11/2023 02:14 pm by spacenuance »

There was a media conference earlier this morning, Space News article has a few more details from this.

https://spacenews.com/telesats-leo-constellation-fully-funded-after-manufacturer-switch/ [Aug 11]

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MDA is building 198 satellites for Telesat’s Lightspeed constellation under a contract worth 2.1 billion Canadian dollars ($1.6 billion), with launches slated to start in the middle of mid-2026.

Weighing 750 kilograms each, Telesat CEO Dan Goldberg said the satellites are 75% smaller than earlier versions planned by Thales Alenia Space, but would have the same performance by using digital beam-forming array antennas instead of the analog terminals MDA was due to supply as a subcontractor.

Telesat expects the total cost for 156 satellites to be around $3.5 billion, when factoring in launches and other expenses, including the ground systems and user terminal technology that would also be used for the 42 follow-on satellites.

Glenn Katz, Telesat’s chief commercial officer, told SpaceNews the company has contracted all the launch vehicles required to complete the 198-satellite constellation, but declined to disclose details.

Offline Zed_Noir

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<snip>
Glenn Katz, Telesat’s chief commercial officer, told SpaceNews the company has contracted all the launch vehicles required to complete the 198-satellite constellation, but declined to disclose details.
Seems likely Telsat has call up the Hawthonre folks to deploy their Lightspeed constellation. The alternate launch options seems to be under capacity and expensive.

<snip>
Glenn Katz, Telesat’s chief commercial officer, told SpaceNews the company has contracted all the launch vehicles required to complete the 198-satellite constellation, but declined to disclose details.
Seems likely Telsat has call up the Hawthonre folks to deploy their Lightspeed constellation. The alternate launch options seems to be under capacity and expensive.

Yes I agree that SpaceX would be the "safe" bid here, but they may also go with Blue. I dont think Relativity will be around in time to support but who knows. Whats also interesting is this; I assume that all launches will be going to a polar orbit. This is similar to Rivada's LEO network that SpaceX is launching on F9, set to start in April 2025 and span 14 months with 12 launches. That brings us to mid 2026, right when Telesat wants to start launching. It would probably take 12 or so launches for F9 to launch all of the Lightspeed constellation, and SpaceX could start doing so from Vandenburg right after Rivada is all deployed, basically without skipping a beat. Of course they may have SLC-6 up and running by then to help out. The only other factor that might be an issue would be satellite size, fitting in that 5 meter fairing, but honestly I doubt that was a problem before, and it should be less of a problem now as the satellites have shrunk by about 250kg.

For the other potential providers apart from ULA, they would have to take the polar corridor out east as both Blue and Relativity dont currently have a west coast launch site. But we'll see what happens.

Imagine if this happens though. Who would have thought SpaceX would not only launch their own LEO constellation, but also 3 others at the same time (OneWeb, Rivada, and Telesat). Only Kuiper remains, but they may have to bite the bullet if their 3 providers dont come through soon.
« Last Edit: 08/11/2023 10:13 pm by spacenuance »

Offline TrevorMonty

About 10x F9R launches so $600-650m.

About 10x F9R launches so $600-650m.

I only said 12 because that works out to be about the same mass per launch as the Rivada constellation will have, 300 sats/12 launches*500kg = 12.5 tons per launch, and 198 satellites/12 launches*750kg = 12.375 tons. I assume its a little lower for the Rivada system then what might be F9's theoretical performance because its going polar but also because they may want to deploy the satellites a bit higher, maybe >500km. Iirc the operational altitudes for both these systems is about 1000km. Also as far as I know neither of these systems is using flatpack sats like starlink, so the dispenser tower or whatever it will be will definitely add a bit of mass.
« Last Edit: 08/12/2023 03:28 am by spacenuance »

Online gongora

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Re: Telesat's Lightspeed LEO Constellation
« Reply #68 on: 08/17/2023 09:46 pm »
https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/1692252015722692781
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MDA: Our $1.55B, 198-satellite @Telesat Lightspeed contract's a huge help to our bids for other LEO constellations, several of which have passed our credibility test. Supply chain decisions - bus, laser terminals - yet to come.
https://www.spaceintelreport.com/mda-ltd-ceo-our-198-satellite-1-55b-telesat-lightspeed-contract-positions-us-for-other-constellation-wins/
(paywalled)

Re: Telesat's Lightspeed LEO Constellation
« Reply #69 on: 09/11/2023 12:37 pm »
And Telesat goes with SpaceX!

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Great News!Telesat Lightspeed satellites will be launched into orbit by SpaceX using their Falcon 9 rocket. The launches are scheduled to begin in 2026 and SpaceX’s rapid launch cadence will ensure worldwide services available to Telesat customers by 2027

https://twitter.com/Telesat/status/1701198286147764565?s=20

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Telesat and SpaceX Announce 14-Launch Agreement for Advanced Telesat Lightspeed LEO Satellites

OTTAWA, CANADA and HAWTHORNE, CALIFORNIA – September 11, 2023 –Telesat (NASDAQ and TSX: TSAT), one of the world’s largest and most innovative satellite operators, and SpaceX, which designs, manufactures and launches the world’s most advanced rockets and spacecraft, today announced a multi-launch agreement to deliver the Telesat Lightspeed constellation to Low Earth Orbit (LEO).

Telesat has contracted 14 launches on SpaceX’s Falcon 9, the most reliable and only reusable orbital rocket flying today, which will carry up to 18 Telesat Lightspeed satellites to LEO per launch. The launch campaign is scheduled to commence in 2026 and will take advantage of SpaceX’s high launch cadence to rapidly deploy the satellites and enable Telesat to begin providing global service in 2027. Launches for the campaign will lift off from SpaceX’s launch facilities in California and Florida.

Designed from inception to serve the demanding, mission-critical connectivity requirements of enterprise and government users, the optically-linked Telesat Lightspeed network will provide multi-Gbps data links and highly secure, resilient, low-latency broadband connectivity anywhere in the world. With the August signing of MDA as the prime satellite manufacturer and all necessary launch contracts in place for global constellation deployment, Telesat is well-positioned to begin delivering unmatched, enterprise-class connectivity in late 2027.

“SpaceX has been a trusted and effective launch provider to Telesat on our geostationary satellite programs and I am delighted that they will be supporting us with their highly reliable Falcon 9 rocket to deploy the Telesat Lightspeed constellation, the most ambitious program in Telesat’s 54-year history,” stated Dan Goldberg, Telesat’s President and CEO. “Given the dedication and professionalism of the SpaceX team, and their outstanding track record of reliability and demonstrated high launch cadence, I have the utmost confidence that they will be an outstanding partner in helping us bring Telesat Lightspeed into service in a timely and low risk manner.”

“With growing demand for high-speed internet around the world, SpaceX is proud to launch and deploy Telesat’s Lightspeed constellation” said SpaceX President and Chief Operating Officer Gwynne Shotwell. “Building upon our successful launch partnership to-date, we look forward to flying Telesat once again as they expand connectivity capabilities for their customers across the globe.”

On a side note, Blue needs to update their website now ;D

Online abaddon

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Re: Telesat's Lightspeed LEO Constellation
« Reply #70 on: 09/11/2023 04:17 pm »
While we're wondering, I wonder if this might have any impact on the Amazon shareholder lawsuit, and if we might see any of the contract details exposed to demonstrate a realistic case for what a large multi-launch order from SpaceX might have cost Amazon had they selected them as a launcher for Kuiper.  Presumably Telesat isn't paying the oft-cited $67 million a launch public listed price...

Online gongora

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Re: Telesat's Lightspeed LEO Constellation
« Reply #71 on: 09/11/2023 04:30 pm »
I'd guess they get a multi-launch discount, but I'll also guess SpaceX provides the deployers, so that may add back a little.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Telesat's Lightspeed LEO Constellation
« Reply #72 on: 09/11/2023 04:39 pm »
Given lack of launch competition Telesat may not have received that much of a discount.



Re: Telesat's Lightspeed LEO Constellation
« Reply #73 on: 09/11/2023 05:24 pm »
https://spacenews.com/telesat-qa-getting-back-to-lightspeed/

I put some of the more interesting quotes here, bolded is question from the interviewer.

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Does the plan call for more prototypes, or will the next launch for Lightspeed be full-scale satellites?

The first launch will be the actual satellites, although maybe we’ll launch just a couple of them and do a bunch of in-orbit testing and whatnot before getting on a very active launch cadence to populate the constellation.

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My expectation is mass production will probably be in the middle of the second half of 2025.

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You have previously talked about launch agreements with Blue Origin and Relativity Space. Is that still the plan?

We have those arrangements in place, and we’ve got another announcement that’ll be coming as well [Telesat announced a contract with SpaceX Sep. 11 for 14 Falcon 9 launches, enough for deploying the entire constellation].

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How would 198 satellites improve services versus 156?

The initial 156 will give us a hugely capable, multi-terabit constellation, but getting up to 198 will give us some incremental capacity and densify the network.


Re: Telesat's Lightspeed LEO Constellation
« Reply #74 on: 09/11/2023 05:27 pm »
https://spacenews.com/telesat-signs-multi-launch-spacex-deal-covering-all-lightspeed-satellites/

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She said Telesat did not intend to use Relativity for the initial constellation deployment. Instead, Telesat would use the 3D printing specialist for single satellite launches to replace a satellite or add to the constellation.

Based on this, sounds like they were only planning on using Terran 1. Now that thats gone, I doubt Terran R will be used at all now that they signed with Falcon and are keeping the Blue contract open for later launches.

Online DanClemmensen

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Re: Telesat's Lightspeed LEO Constellation
« Reply #75 on: 09/11/2023 05:42 pm »
https://spacenews.com/telesat-signs-multi-launch-spacex-deal-covering-all-lightspeed-satellites/

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She said Telesat did not intend to use Relativity for the initial constellation deployment. Instead, Telesat would use the 3D printing specialist for single satellite launches to replace a satellite or add to the constellation.

Based on this, sounds like they were only planning on using Terran 1. Now that thats gone, I doubt Terran R will be used at all now that they signed with Falcon and are keeping the Blue contract open for later launches.
I suspect that they will re-evaluate and possibly ask for bids whenever a change in the LV industry warrants it. That might be each time a new LV actually becomes operational. Planning on using an LV that is not yet operational has proven to be a bad idea.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Telesat's Lightspeed LEO Constellation
« Reply #76 on: 09/11/2023 09:39 pm »


Planning on using an LV that is not yet operational has proven to be a bad idea.

Its OK if you plan to share launches with operational LV. Not such a good idea when 3 of 4 LVs are new and yet to fly and 4th is end of life ie Kuiper. 


Offline M.E.T.

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Re: Telesat's Lightspeed LEO Constellation
« Reply #77 on: 09/12/2023 02:02 am »
I'd guess they get a multi-launch discount, but I'll also guess SpaceX provides the deployers, so that may add back a little.

I highly doubt they were provided with any discount. SpaceX could charge a premium based on “congested supply” and still win easily.

Online Coastal Ron

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Re: Telesat's Lightspeed LEO Constellation
« Reply #78 on: 09/12/2023 02:39 am »
I'd guess they get a multi-launch discount, but I'll also guess SpaceX provides the deployers, so that may add back a little.

I highly doubt they were provided with any discount. SpaceX could charge a premium based on “congested supply” and still win easily.

It would be hard for SpaceX to argue that they don't have the capacity, even with Starlink launches. SpaceX wants to move to Starship as quickly as possible for Starlink, which by the time the Telesat constellation is ready to launch may already be happening. So if anything Telesat would be benefiting from all the high tempo launch rates Starlink is mandating today.

As for launch pricing, SpaceX advertises their prices publicly for the basic launch, and I don't think they would feel the need to discount - nor increase. If anything I think SpaceX President Shotwell would relish the ability to show that SpaceX provides standard pricing regardless if you are a competitor - it would only increase their customer base for launches.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline Danderman

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Re: Telesat's Lightspeed LEO Constellation
« Reply #79 on: 09/12/2023 03:05 am »
Any big space project more than 3 years in the future is dubious, due to ongoing possibility of a big economic crash.

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