Author Topic: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION  (Read 498849 times)

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #280 on: 11/16/2017 02:18 PM »


My guess is that it's US Treasury or Justice Department.

neither deal with satellites

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #281 on: 11/16/2017 02:25 PM »
I would not be shocked if some of that "leaked information" posted on reddit was a deliberate misinformation.

For what itís worth, none of the claims u/ASTRALsunder made have turned out to be wrong. Heís been active in the subreddit for quite a while and is respected an as ex-employee with many connections, he has never given us false information before.
According to u/ASTRALsunder this is a _commercial_ payload and not a government one.

From Reddit:
Quote
[Ė]ASTRALsunder 8 points 1 month ago
No, nothing my friends told me gave me the feeling that the customer was established. One friend did mention that the customer was pretty open and up front with SpaceX about their financial situation to give them an idea on how extremely crucial this flight was for them. I guess it was enough for SpaceX to squeeze them in risking the ire of their backlogged customers.
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Offline SimonFD

Rumors are circulating that the launch will not be livestreamed according to this article. https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/879593/spacex-launch-date-time-when-is-falcon-9-zuma-payload-space-nasa-elon-musk 

The source is dubious at best.

Considering that they also think that FH will fly in late November, I wouldn't take this article too seriously - most likely they won't stream flight of 2nd stage (just like with NROL-76) and author of this article mistaken that for not streaming launch at all.

The Express has gone downhill over the last 20 years or so. I donít bother with it.  :)

Agree. Particularly as they keep posting articles saying NASA is hiding Planet X..  :o
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Father Jack: "FECK OFF, CUP!"

Online gongora

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #283 on: 11/16/2017 02:38 PM »
According to u/ASTRALsunder this is a _commercial_ payload and not a government one.

EVERY other piece of information we've gotten says it's a government payload.

Offline Jarnis

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #284 on: 11/16/2017 02:44 PM »
According to u/ASTRALsunder this is a _commercial_ payload and not a government one.

EVERY other piece of information we've gotten says it's a government payload.

It may mean a lot of revenue to Northrop Grumman if it flies on time and works. Some people think the revenue bit implies its commercial, but it implies no such thing. Companies make revenue out of government contracts all the time.

Offline mn

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #285 on: 11/16/2017 02:45 PM »
Well this is interesting.

If you dont click on the link, a launch within the first 15-20 minutes of the window may put it next to USA 276 (aka NROL 76).

The author also emphasizes that this may just be pure coincidence. It will be interesting to see when this bird launches.

OK, had they launched yesterday as originally planned, would it also be close?

(and for the conspiracy theorist in me, remember that the Launch Hazard Area notice was first published with a 'rescheduled' delay date, then they published a new one with the correct date before it was officially delayed).

Offline cscott

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #286 on: 11/16/2017 03:01 PM »
Zuma could be some form of Space Tracking and Surveillance System (SBIRS Low) which demo satellites where built by Northrop Grumman. With what has been happening in North Korea they may of been asked to take some out of storage and launch them, if they had spares.


There are no spares and it would be a military launch
Are you saying that ZUMA is definitely not a military launch?  I'm not sure how one could tell the difference, given the general secrecy, but you're the one on the ground with the inside info.

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #287 on: 11/16/2017 03:16 PM »
Zuma could be some form of Space Tracking and Surveillance System (SBIRS Low) which demo satellites where built by Northrop Grumman. With what has been happening in North Korea they may of been asked to take some out of storage and launch them, if they had spares.


There are no spares and it would be a military launch
Are you saying that ZUMA is definitely not a military launch?  I'm not sure how one could tell the difference, given the general secrecy, but you're the one on the ground with the inside info.

Previous statements has said it is not a military launch.  STSS would be one.

Offline Star One

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #288 on: 11/16/2017 03:19 PM »
Zuma could be some form of Space Tracking and Surveillance System (SBIRS Low) which demo satellites where built by Northrop Grumman. With what has been happening in North Korea they may of been asked to take some out of storage and launch them, if they had spares.


There are no spares and it would be a military launch
Are you saying that ZUMA is definitely not a military launch?  I'm not sure how one could tell the difference, given the general secrecy, but you're the one on the ground with the inside info.

Previous statements has said it is not a military launch.  STSS would be one.

Thatís interesting as itís not often you see a Ďclassifiedí commercial launch.

Offline tleski

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #289 on: 11/16/2017 03:29 PM »
Zuma could be some form of Space Tracking and Surveillance System (SBIRS Low) which demo satellites where built by Northrop Grumman. With what has been happening in North Korea they may of been asked to take some out of storage and launch them, if they had spares.


There are no spares and it would be a military launch
Are you saying that ZUMA is definitely not a military launch?  I'm not sure how one could tell the difference, given the general secrecy, but you're the one on the ground with the inside info.

Previous statements has said it is not a military launch.  STSS would be one.

That’s interesting as it’s not often you see a ‘classified’ commercial launch.

This is a US government launch, not a commercial one. There were numerous official statements on this. See five posts above yours.
« Last Edit: 11/16/2017 03:31 PM by tleski »

Offline Star One

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #290 on: 11/16/2017 03:32 PM »
Zuma could be some form of Space Tracking and Surveillance System (SBIRS Low) which demo satellites where built by Northrop Grumman. With what has been happening in North Korea they may of been asked to take some out of storage and launch them, if they had spares.


There are no spares and it would be a military launch
Are you saying that ZUMA is definitely not a military launch?  I'm not sure how one could tell the difference, given the general secrecy, but you're the one on the ground with the inside info.

Previous statements has said it is not a military launch.  STSS would be one.

Thatís interesting as itís not often you see a Ďclassifiedí commercial launch.

This is a US government launch, not a commercial one. There were numerous official statements on this. See five posts above yours.

Jim just said itís not a military launch, I canít think who else government wise other than NASA would be launching satellites.

Online shooter6947

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #291 on: 11/16/2017 03:34 PM »

Jim just said itís not a military launch, I canít think who else government wise other than NASA would be launching satellites.
NSA. CIA.  NRO.

Offline deruch

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #292 on: 11/16/2017 03:39 PM »
People are conflating multiple issues.  From SpaceX's perspective, this is a commercial launch for Northrup Grumman.  Northrup's client is some part of the US Government.  Just because the payload is classified/secret doesn't mean that for SpaceX it isn't a commercial launch.
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline Rogerstigers


Jim just said itís not a military launch, I canít think who else government wise other than NASA would be launching satellites.
NSA. CIA.  NRO.

They are military entities.

Eh, USINT is not generally considered to be a part of USMIL.   USMIL has its own intelligence community.   They, of course, all work together, in theory.  Given the CIA's history of using shell companies for everything, I would consider them just general government rather than military.

« Last Edit: 11/16/2017 03:58 PM by Rogerstigers »

Offline Star One

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #294 on: 11/16/2017 03:59 PM »
According to this article it is an NRO payload in spite of denials.

Quote
Although Ars understands the payload is being launched for the National Reconnaissance Office, the mission's press kit offers absolutely no details about the payload. It simply refers to the payload as the "Zuma spacecraft," which is bound for low-Earth orbit. (And indeed, the NRO has denied that Zuma is its satellite).

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/spacex-to-launch-a-secret-but-significant-payload-thursday/
« Last Edit: 11/16/2017 04:01 PM by Star One »

Offline Star One

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #295 on: 11/16/2017 04:03 PM »
According to this article it is an NRO payload in spite of denials.

Quote
Although Ars understands the payload is being launched for the National Reconnaissance Office, the mission's press kit offers absolutely no details about the payload. It simply refers to the payload as the "Zuma spacecraft," which is bound for low-Earth orbit. (And indeed, the NRO has denied that Zuma is its satellite).

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/spacex-to-launch-a-secret-but-significant-payload-thursday/

Offline Rogerstigers

According to this article it is an NRO payload in spite of denials.

Quote
Although Ars understands the payload is being launched for the National Reconnaissance Office, the mission's press kit offers absolutely no details about the payload. It simply refers to the payload as the "Zuma spacecraft," which is bound for low-Earth orbit. (And indeed, the NRO has denied that Zuma is its satellite).

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/11/spacex-to-launch-a-secret-but-significant-payload-thursday/

So I guess the question is, where did Eric B get that information?  Obviously he has his sources, but inquiring minds and all that...

Offline envy887

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #297 on: 11/16/2017 04:05 PM »
Well this is interesting.

If you dont click on the link, a launch within the first 15-20 minutes of the window may put it next to USA 276 (aka NROL 76).

The author also emphasizes that this may just be pure coincidence. It will be interesting to see when this bird launches.

OK, had they launched yesterday as originally planned, would it also be close?

(and for the conspiracy theorist in me, remember that the Launch Hazard Area notice was first published with a 'rescheduled' delay date, then they published a new one with the correct date before it was officially delayed).

It could have been in plane if launched at the right time in yesterday's window, but I'm not sure about in phase. The plane only drifts a few minutes per day.

Online gongora

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #298 on: 11/16/2017 04:08 PM »

Jim just said itís not a military launch, I canít think who else government wise other than NASA would be launching satellites.
NSA. CIA.  NRO.

They are military entities.

Eh, USINT is not generally considered to be a part of USMIL.   USMIL has its own intelligence community.   They, of course, all work together, in theory.  Given the CIA's history of using shell companies for everything, I would consider them just general government rather than military.

I think most of us in the U.S. draw a distinction between the Armed Forces (Military) under DoD and the other agencies under DoD.

Offline Skyrocket

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #299 on: 11/16/2017 04:37 PM »
Zuma could be some form of Space Tracking and Surveillance System (SBIRS Low) which demo satellites where built by Northrop Grumman. With what has been happening in North Korea they may of been asked to take some out of storage and launch them, if they had spares.


There are no spares and it would be a military launch

And early warning satellites are usually not that classified. Usually you want your adversary to know, that you have early warning satellites - that is pretty essential for deterrence.

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