Author Topic: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION  (Read 540281 times)

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #340 on: 11/18/2017 01:07 PM »
Assuming SpaceX needs to replace payload fairing - would this require demating the whole payload, returning it to payload processing facility and doing it there? Or it can be done on LC-39A?


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Even if they could do it on 39A - I'd expect them to do it in the payload processing facility to avoid prying eyes on this super secret payload.

There is no payload processing facility at Lc-39

Offline woods170

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #341 on: 11/18/2017 01:10 PM »
Assuming SpaceX needs to replace payload fairing - would this require demating the whole payload, returning it to payload processing facility and doing it there? Or it can be done on LC-39A?


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Given the nature of the payload a fairing swap will not be done at LC-39A. It requires demate of the payload stack, return to the non-SpaceX payload processing facility to do the fairing swap there. If a fairing swap is in order we are looking at 5 - 10 days delay. That is assuming SpaceX has an unaffected fairing available for the swap.
« Last Edit: 11/18/2017 01:10 PM by woods170 »

Offline shuttlefan

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #342 on: 11/18/2017 01:23 PM »
Any possibility of an attempt Sunday?

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #343 on: 11/18/2017 02:26 PM »
Any possibility of an attempt Sunday?

No. No NOTAM published, no launch date announced and the F9 back horizontal.

Offline shuttlefan

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #344 on: 11/18/2017 03:07 PM »
Any possibility of an attempt Sunday?

No. No NOTAM published, no launch date announced and the F9 back horizontal.

Thanks.

Offline rabe0070

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #345 on: 11/18/2017 03:14 PM »
If they're taking the Falcon 9/Zuma stack off the TEL, why not keep it to the side and continue work on the Falcon Heavy Demo preps?

there is no side when it comes to an integrated launch vehicle

I meant leave the Zuma stack in the LC-39A hangar, finish Falcon Heavy modifications, then integrate the Falcon Heavy vehicle on the TEL.

I’m pretty sure he understood what you meant, and his reply was stating that integrated launch vehicles (especially ones of this much importance) do not simply “get put to the side,” especially by something like FH-1.

Integrated launch vehicles get all the attention until they’ve safely done their job.

I think he is saying you cannot take an integrated launch vehicle off of the TEL as that probably gives it the support it needs to be horizontal. You wold have to demate the payload from the stack.

Offline saliva_sweet

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #346 on: 11/18/2017 03:31 PM »
Any possibility of an attempt Sunday?

No. No NOTAM published, no launch date announced and the F9 back horizontal.

Remembering this article:
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3277/1

One wonders whether any "coincidences" may end up occurring again.

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #347 on: 11/18/2017 07:15 PM »
So, given the requirement of launching before November is out and the nonzero chance the Zuma fairing is suspect as well, what are the odds that SpaceX just does not have another fairing ready? Their fairing production rate is also said to be limited, they really cannot crank them out fast.

Offline Wolfram66

So, given the requirement of launching before November is out and the nonzero chance the Zuma fairing is suspect as well, what are the odds that SpaceX just does not have another fairing ready? Their fairing production rate is also said to be limited, they really cannot crank them out fast.
The question being, what IS the issue with the fairings? Latches, structural integrity, adapter, insulation?

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #349 on: 11/19/2017 12:53 AM »
That certainly is an excellent question. We may never know. Or it may come out right away. Waiting is.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Wolfram66

That certainly is an excellent question. We may never know. Or it may come out right away. Waiting is.

Thanks, Yoda! Wise you are!

Offline kch

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #351 on: 11/19/2017 02:10 AM »
That certainly is an excellent question. We may never know. Or it may come out right away. Waiting is.

I grok.  :)

Offline mn

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #352 on: 11/19/2017 03:48 PM »
Any possibility of an attempt Sunday?

No. No NOTAM published, no launch date announced and the F9 back horizontal.

Just out of curiosity is there a mandated minimum required advance notice for NOTAM's?

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #353 on: 11/19/2017 04:38 PM »
Any possibility of an attempt Sunday?

No. No NOTAM published, no launch date announced and the F9 back horizontal.

Just out of curiosity is there a mandated minimum required advance notice for NOTAM's?

No, NOTAMs are issued by the FAA and there are no limits on when the NOTAMs can be issued.  When something unexpected comes up, the NOTAM can be issued to take effect immediately, with zero advance notice.

Offline ZachS09

I'm thinking that if Zuma does not launch by November 30th, the payload might either be sent to the scrapyard, or have its parts reused for other satellites.
« Last Edit: 11/19/2017 05:16 PM by ZachS09 »
"Liftoff of Falcon 9: the world's first reflight of an orbital-class rocket."

Offline Lar

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #355 on: 11/19/2017 05:20 PM »
I'm thinking that if Zuma does not launch by November 30th, the payload might either be sent to the scrapyard, or have its parts reused for other satellites.
That stirkes me as highly implausible. Why would a very expensive bird be scrapped? Much more likely that SpaceX pays a lot of penalty and gets bad PR. If the mission was actually that time sensitive I could see repurposing.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Star One

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #356 on: 11/19/2017 06:28 PM »
I'm thinking that if Zuma does not launch by November 30th, the payload might either be sent to the scrapyard, or have its parts reused for other satellites.
That stirkes me as highly implausible. Why would a very expensive bird be scrapped? Much more likely that SpaceX pays a lot of penalty and gets bad PR. If the mission was actually that time sensitive I could see repurposing.

There must be some Space X employees sweating buckets over this payload now.

Offline mulp

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #357 on: 11/19/2017 06:47 PM »
What is the fairing issue? My guess at possible issues:

Like the shuttle, they have notices something breaking loose and falling during launch, not causing problems so far because they safely fall past payload.

They have noticed that the fairing splitting and falling away violates the payload envelope SpaceX contracts to be protected to customer, but all payloads do not intrude into that violated space.

They have discovered the air pressures or turbulence are higher than expected when the fairing splits, or that the pressure drop experienced by the faring is more extreme.

The most likely is, in my view:

They discovered on inspection of another fairing in the production batch a material problem that requires QC check and test by xray etc a portion of the fairing, (steel from  the corporation faking steel quality certifications). SpaceX can check the problem in four hours by looking inside the fairing, and in six hours by replacing the bolts, metal part, etc.

Steps soon far:

Getting a SpaceX QC guy an manufacturing tech security clearance.

Figuring out how to get a customer team trained to do QC and manufacturing steps.

Figuring out how to get the fairing removed so SpaceX can inspect and fix it if required without moving the payload and fairing far away and back.

Maybe they are building a room inside the SpaceX building with hardware to remove fairing and make it available to SpaceX while keeping payload out of sight of SpaceX security cleared workers.

Most likely all the delay is caused by SpaceX workers not being able to see the payload, even at the detail they will see in photos taken from the ground by hobbyist in a few weeks after the launch. Ie, from one end of the assembly building to the other with tarps hung to obstruct view.

Offline tleski

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #358 on: 11/19/2017 08:47 PM »
What is the fairing issue? My guess at possible issues:

Like the shuttle, they have notices something breaking loose and falling during launch, not causing problems so far because they safely fall past payload.

They have noticed that the fairing splitting and falling away violates the payload envelope SpaceX contracts to be protected to customer, but all payloads do not intrude into that violated space.

They have discovered the air pressures or turbulence are higher than expected when the fairing splits, or that the pressure drop experienced by the faring is more extreme.

The most likely is, in my view:

They discovered on inspection of another fairing in the production batch a material problem that requires QC check and test by xray etc a portion of the fairing, (steel from  the corporation faking steel quality certifications). SpaceX can check the problem in four hours by looking inside the fairing, and in six hours by replacing the bolts, metal part, etc.

Steps soon far:

Getting a SpaceX QC guy an manufacturing tech security clearance.

Figuring out how to get a customer team trained to do QC and manufacturing steps.

Figuring out how to get the fairing removed so SpaceX can inspect and fix it if required without moving the payload and fairing far away and back.

Maybe they are building a room inside the SpaceX building with hardware to remove fairing and make it available to SpaceX while keeping payload out of sight of SpaceX security cleared workers.

Most likely all the delay is caused by SpaceX workers not being able to see the payload, even at the detail they will see in photos taken from the ground by hobbyist in a few weeks after the launch. Ie, from one end of the assembly building to the other with tarps hung to obstruct view.

If they need to replace the fairing they will do in an appropriate processing facility. In case of this payload, it will not be done by SpaceX but by a contractor employing people with required security clearances.
« Last Edit: 11/19/2017 08:48 PM by tleski »

Online jjyach

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Re: SpaceX F9 : Zuma : January 7/8, 2018, CCAFS : DISCUSSION
« Reply #359 on: 11/19/2017 08:54 PM »
SpaceX has cleared encapsulation personnel, they will just travel to the payloads facility to do a change if needed.  Fairing issues are likely a part of the fairing which hopefully just needs to be swapped out if indeed truly a problem.

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