Author Topic: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6  (Read 477986 times)

Offline docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #540 on: 12/16/2017 11:16 PM »
I'm completely lost on the color coding of the PVC pipe. Blue is normally used for water, but what's the blue and green for?

In these parts green = sewage or drains, which would go with the sloped T's on them.
« Last Edit: 12/16/2017 11:18 PM by docmordrid »
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Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #541 on: 12/17/2017 12:15 AM »
The green seems to be smaller conduits.  Perhaps they could be for data or low voltage/control wiring. 

The blue looks like large diameter conduits for electrical copper.
SpaceX, just a few things planned for 2018: FH, Starlink Prototypes, Block 5, Dragon 2, Increased launch rate.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #542 on: 12/17/2017 10:07 AM »
The green seems to be smaller conduits.  Perhaps they could be for data or low voltage/control wiring. 

The blue looks like large diameter conduits for electrical copper.
For a solar array, I believe the low voltage DC wires are larger, i.e. higher amperage. Also I imagine there would be more low voltage DC wires than high voltage AC wires.

They could be using micro-inverters, but with the potential for hurricanes and flooding, I'm guessing traditional inverters located on the concrete slabs.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #543 on: 12/17/2017 01:55 PM »
 I think wannamoonbase is probably right. They'll likely be monitoring every panel with the ability to bypass panels or strings. Maybe a little multiplexer in each electrical box at the end of the rack lines. Lots of data/control wires.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #544 on: 12/17/2017 02:38 PM »

For a solar array, I believe the low voltage DC wires are larger, i.e. higher amperage. Also I imagine there would be more low voltage DC wires than high voltage AC wires.

They could be using micro-inverters, but with the potential for hurricanes and flooding, I'm guessing traditional inverters located on the concrete slabs.
It will probably be high voltage DC. I'm mostly wild guessing 6 arrays per rack, which would be 216 volts if they were in series. I wouldn't be surprised if they went to the 400 volt range for DC, since that would keep wiring size down and be the same range the Model S uses. (Not sure what the model 3 is) It looks like the CS6U array can handle up to 1500 volts to ground.
 The details of how or if they're tying into the grid should be interesting. With a transfer switch just west of the STARGATE building they could possibly take over the whole grid east of there with public juice for backup or times you don't see the sun for a week.
« Last Edit: 12/17/2017 08:42 PM by Nomadd »

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #545 on: 12/17/2017 02:51 PM »
The green seems to be smaller conduits.  Perhaps they could be for data or low voltage/control wiring. 

The blue looks like large diameter conduits for electrical copper.
For a solar array, I believe the low voltage DC wires are larger, i.e. higher amperage. Also I imagine there would be more low voltage DC wires than high voltage AC wires.

They could be using micro-inverters, but with the potential for hurricanes and flooding, I'm guessing traditional inverters located on the concrete slabs.

Agreed, located on concrete slabs and inside an elevated waterproof building.

Dam I love and miss construction.
SpaceX, just a few things planned for 2018: FH, Starlink Prototypes, Block 5, Dragon 2, Increased launch rate.

Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #546 on: 12/17/2017 09:54 PM »
You know, regarding F9 from BC...

Total cost of SLC 40 re-biuld was, what, $50M?   Less than the revenue from a single launch.

With the forecast flight rates, SpaceX is certainly putting the pads to high use, and always running the risk of losing a pad. So it's a low-cost, high-payoff proposition...  Especially when they already have the project started, land acquired, soil compaction happening, etc.

BFR, whether from 39A or from Texas, will come into play, but will only accentuate the need for an extra F9 pad.

If BFR launches from 39A, there will have to be work on the pad, and this will further elevate the need for a BC pad.

If BFR launches from Texas, then BC becomes a much larger project, and at that point the marginal cost of an F9 pad will be almost negligible.

So we'll see... 
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Offline docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #547 on: 12/17/2017 10:17 PM »
Given the number of tanker launches per BFS mission, ISTM it'll fly from and land at both Boca Chica and KSC. Launch, transfer, land, refill. Rinse, wash, repeat until 2 BFS's are full.
« Last Edit: 12/17/2017 10:21 PM by docmordrid »
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Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #548 on: 12/17/2017 10:43 PM »
Total cost of SLC 40 re-biuld was, what, $50M?   Less than the revenue from a single launch...

If BFR launches from Texas, then BC becomes a much larger project, and at that point the marginal cost of an F9 pad will be almost negligible.

Good point.

But the counter-point: To launch F9 from Boca Chica, they need to build a lot more than just a launch pad.  They have to build the whole thing from scratch, including control center buildings, payload processing buildings, plus 2 hangars (one HIF, and one for refurbishing boosters).  They even have to build their own solar system for power and drill their own well for deluge water.

And all this comes at a time where Elon just announced a major change in priority for BFR.  As of September, SpaceX no longer plans for Starlink to fund BFR.  Elon said they intend to fund BFR with just the money they get from launching satellites and servicing the space station.  Elon also said the first BFR Mars missions will be in September 2022, way before any Starlink revenues.

So in order to free up funds for BFR, SpaceX may choose to squeeze the most they can out of their 3 current launch pads and 1 landing pad, and delay the Boca Chica site for cash flow reasons.

But to be clear, I have no clue whether F9 will launch from Boca Chica.  I can argue both sides of this. That's why I'm unsure.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #549 on: 12/17/2017 10:47 PM »
Given the number of tanker launches per BFS mission, ISTM it'll fly from and land at both Boca Chica and KSC. Launch, transfer, land, refill. Rinse, wash, repeat until 2 BFS's are full.

In the long term, yes, I think they'll launch BFR from both Florida and Texas.

For the first Mars missions in 2022, I think they'll have to choose one or the other.

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #550 on: 12/17/2017 11:54 PM »
Given the number of tanker launches per BFS mission, ISTM it'll fly from and land at both Boca Chica and KSC. Launch, transfer, land, refill. Rinse, wash, repeat until 2 BFS's are full.

In the long term, yes, I think they'll launch BFR from both Florida and Texas.

For the first Mars missions in 2022, I think they'll have to choose one or the other.

To what common inclination can BFRs be launched from both the Cape and Boca Chica?
They need to be in the same orbit to rendezvous for fuel transfer.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #551 on: 12/18/2017 12:59 AM »
Total cost of SLC 40 re-biuld was, what, $50M?   Less than the revenue from a single launch...

If BFR launches from Texas, then BC becomes a much larger project, and at that point the marginal cost of an F9 pad will be almost negligible.

Good point.

But the counter-point: To launch F9 from Boca Chica, they need to build a lot more than just a launch pad.  They have to build the whole thing from scratch, including control center buildings, payload processing buildings, plus 2 hangars (one HIF, and one for refurbishing boosters).  They even have to build their own solar system for power and drill their own well for deluge water.

And all this comes at a time where Elon just announced a major change in priority for BFR.  As of September, SpaceX no longer plans for Starlink to fund BFR.  Elon said they intend to fund BFR with just the money they get from launching satellites and servicing the space station.  Elon also said the first BFR Mars missions will be in September 2022, way before any Starlink revenues.

So in order to free up funds for BFR, SpaceX may choose to squeeze the most they can out of their 3 current launch pads and 1 landing pad, and delay the Boca Chica site for cash flow reasons.

But to be clear, I have no clue whether F9 will launch from Boca Chica.  I can argue both sides of this. That's why I'm unsure.

OK - call it $100M. 

All the points still stand.
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Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #552 on: 12/18/2017 01:02 AM »
Given the number of tanker launches per BFS mission, ISTM it'll fly from and land at both Boca Chica and KSC. Launch, transfer, land, refill. Rinse, wash, repeat until 2 BFS's are full.

In the long term, yes, I think they'll launch BFR from both Florida and Texas.

For the first Mars missions in 2022, I think they'll have to choose one or the other.

Agreed, but I think a single BFS can be refueled from a single pad.  5 launches, 5 days?   10 days?   15?  All very acceptable.

Without a doubt though, multiple BFR sites are coming, which is why I like the off-shore ideas, since they have more in common as you move from site to site.
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Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #553 on: 12/18/2017 02:23 AM »
I think a single BFS can be refueled from a single pad.  5 launches, 5 days?   10 days?   15?  All very acceptable.

SpaceX plans to send 2 BFS cargo ships to Mars in 2022.

Each BFS cargo ship will probably require 6 BFR launches, one for the BFS cargo ship itself, and 5 more tanker launches to fully fuel each BFS cargo ship.

So that's 12 launches total. 

How close together do these 12 launches need to be?  Not very.  The BFS cargo ships can hang around in low earth orbit for a while before Trans-Mars Injection.  So they could take a couple of months for all the tanker flights.  They just need to make sure that both cargo ships are fully fueled before the optimal Earth/Mars alignment for TMI.

Bottom line: A single BFR launch pad can easily send 2 BFS spaceships to Mars at the same time.

Note: Elon mentioned that the first tanker ships will just be empty cargo ships, but eventually SpaceX plans to build a dedicated optimized tanker.  At that point, SpaceX may be able to use only 4 tanker flights to fully fuel the spaceship.  But for now, using empty cargo ships as tankers, I believe they'll need 5 tanker flights per spaceship, or 6 total launches per spaceship.

Offline SPITexas

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #554 on: 12/19/2017 07:11 PM »
http://www.themonitor.com/news/local/article_afae9d44-e465-11e7-b352-472baa7fd462.html#utm_campaign=blox&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social
The island most expensive improvement is Isla Blanca park for $6.5 million with a SpaceX viewing. Improving 3 parks  $30 million in total expected to be completed late spring or early summer Isla Blanca park.
Equipment arrives next week at Isla Blanca.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #555 on: 12/19/2017 08:26 PM »
Interesting to note that the amphitheater is at such an angle that it would work well to view launches from Boca Chica beach or ~10 miles offshore from the beach.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #556 on: 12/19/2017 10:18 PM »
Interesting to note that the amphitheater is at such an angle that it would work well to view launches from Boca Chica beach or ~10 miles offshore from the beach.
Yeah, it's designed to watch the launches.

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #557 on: 12/20/2017 12:20 AM »
Interesting to note that the amphitheater is at such an angle that it would work well to view launches from Boca Chica beach or ~10 miles offshore from the beach.
Yeah, it's designed to watch the launches.
Of course
But his point was that the stands would work for viewing launches from the beach site currently being developed and for the offshore launch platforms hypothesized by some for the BFR.

However, it looks like SPI is getting ahead of themselves. It seems a risk to build the launch viewing stands before SpaceX builds the launch pad. SpaceX is very .... agile, letís say. Plans do change.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Online guckyfan

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #558 on: 12/20/2017 03:14 AM »
I am quite sure it is for concerts as well and only additional for launch watching.

Offline SPITexas

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #559 on: 12/20/2017 03:26 AM »
Interesting to note that the amphitheater is at such an angle that it would work well to view launches from Boca Chica beach or ~10 miles offshore from the beach.
Yeah, it's designed to watch the launches.
Of course
But his point was that the stands would work for viewing launches from the beach site currently being developed and for the offshore launch platforms hypothesized by some for the BFR.

However, it looks like SPI is getting ahead of themselves. It seems a risk to build the launch viewing stands before SpaceX builds the launch pad. SpaceX is very .... agile, letís say. Plans do change.

 The County Park Director was smart enough to get ready for Contruction Becuase the people that lived there wanted to know when it will start,
and the park really needed the improvements what made them basically commence it was Probably the destruction of the old Isla Blanca entrance it wasnít ready for a redo yet but they had to do something right.
 Someone crashed into it completely destroyed. The county doesnít  know the possibility of the BFR launching from here yet. Only about the falcons9 and heavy.
Then and now
« Last Edit: 12/20/2017 03:56 AM by SPITexas »

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