Author Topic: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6  (Read 515755 times)

Offline bocachicagal

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1600 on: 05/02/2018 04:21 pm »
SpaceX is going to be using 17 LBJ as a logistics building. Doing some demo/remodeling on the inside.
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Offline joesmith

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1601 on: 05/02/2018 04:39 pm »
.... anymore info on this ?,, please?

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1602 on: 05/02/2018 04:42 pm »
The Guardian published this. theguardian.com spacex-texas-boca-chica-brownsville-border-wall
Edit 4 months old... didn't check, just liked "globally famous symbol of soaring human potential" ...
« Last Edit: 05/02/2018 08:31 pm by DistantTemple »
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Online SPITexas

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1604 on: 05/02/2018 07:22 pm »
The Guardian published this. theguardian.com spacex-texas-boca-chica-brownsville-border-wall

Ah yes nothing more like a 4 month old article Lol.  So a logistic building will be used for?

Offline bocachicagal

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1605 on: 05/02/2018 08:12 pm »
Guys are working on installing a rollup door on the crane shed.
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Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1606 on: 05/03/2018 12:08 am »
So a logistic building will be used for?
It's a pretty nice place with lots of room. Big yard and a great neighbor. It's probably why they never did anything with that junker they put on the lot by the control center.
 Logistics is a pretty vague term. They could use it for an overnight facility. It's the only permanent place they have at the moment other than the rest of the houses, which are all a lot smaller and need more work. It will be a lot better than trailers for meetings, spreading blueprints and having beers after work.
 I wouldn't be surprised if they tore down the tower. It's in pretty bad shape.
« Last Edit: 05/03/2018 12:09 am by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1607 on: 05/03/2018 01:02 pm »
You have a LOT of friends here Dave...enough said.
This thread wouldn't be what it is without him. I probably wouldn't have ever checked out the neighborhood and found a spot to park between journeys if he hadn't compiled everything the way he did.
 DaveG and ChrisB are the two that will always have a permanent seat on my porch for surly bond breaking events if circumstances allow. I don't know how to express my gratitude for their work on this site and this thread.
  I don't take his speculation on the location of the BFS testing lightly. Not many people have put in the work he has on understanding the situation.
 I'm way too biased to have an objective opinion myself.
« Last Edit: 05/03/2018 01:19 pm by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Online SPITexas

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1608 on: 05/03/2018 01:40 pm »
So a logistic building will be used for?
It's a pretty nice place with lots of room. Big yard and a great neighbor. It's probably why they never did anything with that junker they put on the lot by the control center.
 Logistics is a pretty vague term. They could use it for an overnight facility. It's the only permanent place they have at the moment other than the rest of the houses, which are all a lot smaller and need more work. It will be a lot better than trailers for meetings, spreading blueprints and having beers after work.
 I wouldn't be surprised if they tore down the tower. It's in pretty bad shape.

Well that must be nice
Pretty sure there gonna still use the portable and the two logistic buildings for preparation. On some structures.

Offline cscott

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1609 on: 05/03/2018 02:06 pm »
My (intended to be friendly) advice was simply that often a quiet voice gets more attention that a loud voice, even if both are correct.  It's the nature of humans to be perverse and push against anything we feel is being forced upon us.

(Ob. disclaimer: this is advice that was given to me, and that I often need to heed myself. Including perhaps in this post.)

And of course, we have folks on NSF who are completely incorrigible and borderline antisocial and we love them anyway as part of the character of the place. ;)

Anyway, on topic: so assuming that the permit process for offshore launch would be different from the process involved in the current EIP, has anyone poked around the websites of likely agencies to see if anything SpaceX-related turns up?  I poked around the USCG websites a while back looking for ASDS/support ship info, but concluded that the typical ownership structures of large boats are sufficiently opaque that I wasn't likely to be able to discover anything new (other than that SpaceX does not directly own, control, or name any of its navy). But maybe someone familiar with (say) off-shore drill platform permitting might know some other databases to mine.
« Last Edit: 05/03/2018 02:07 pm by cscott »

Offline joesmith

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1610 on: 05/03/2018 02:48 pm »
....... each of us takes what he will from every message posted.. I am very aware that I am among people
MUCH smarter than myself.

Offline edzieba

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1611 on: 05/04/2018 08:41 am »
Beyond public modifications to the EIS for a lad-based pad, what would be some flags that SpaceX intend to launch BFR/BFS from Boca Chica?
A permanent near-coastal platform linked to the shore (e.g. for prop lines) would be sitting right in the middle of the Brownsville shipping lanes and anchorage, so there would likely need to be some notification of intend to disrupt all of that (I'd expect the port making a big stink about that might scupper the whole idea anyway). An offshore floating platform would need to anchor far enough out to avoid interfering with shipping, but it would still need to be towed to shore for loading/unloading of the stack and propellants - or a support vessel would need to do the same to ferry between -  which would either need to be trucked to the port from the Boca Chica site (seems silly not to just put the facilities at the port in that case, which also would be something to look out for) or adding a pier or other structure at the Boca Chica site itself (public EIS again).

Offline Shanuson

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1612 on: 05/04/2018 11:19 am »
Beyond public modifications to the EIS for a lad-based pad, what would be some flags that SpaceX intend to launch BFR/BFS from Boca Chica?
A permanent near-coastal platform linked to the shore (e.g. for prop lines) would be sitting right in the middle of the Brownsville shipping lanes and anchorage, so there would likely need to be some notification of intend to disrupt all of that (I'd expect the port making a big stink about that might scupper the whole idea anyway). An offshore floating platform would need to anchor far enough out to avoid interfering with shipping, but it would still need to be towed to shore for loading/unloading of the stack and propellants - or a support vessel would need to do the same to ferry between -  which would either need to be trucked to the port from the Boca Chica site (seems silly not to just put the facilities at the port in that case, which also would be something to look out for) or adding a pier or other structure at the Boca Chica site itself (public EIS again).

In the map you provide, the black squares on the right edge are already offshore platforms, some connected to the coast by pipelines. Here you can also see them: https://www.planet.com/explorer/#/mosaic/global_monthly_2017_12_mosaic/center/-96.898,26.099/zoom/13

Also seems like at least on some places also the waters are crowded. We will see what SpaceX does with BFR testing and launching etc.
What is our current estimate for a "save" distance in case of an explosion on pad?

Offline BadgerLegs

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1613 on: 05/04/2018 03:39 pm »
In the map you provide, the black squares on the right edge are already offshore platforms, some connected to the coast by pipelines. Here you can also see them: https://www.planet.com/explorer/#/mosaic/global_monthly_2017_12_mosaic/center/-96.898,26.099/zoom/13

Also seems like at least on some places also the waters are crowded. We will see what SpaceX does with BFR testing and launching etc.
What is our current estimate for a "save" distance in case of an explosion on pad?
Preface these statements with the FACT that these are all WILD speculations.  The only reason anybody here is discussing these things is that they put four things together that SpaceX didn't necessarily put together.
1) Statements to the effect of Boca Chica being the 'perfect' place to launch BFR from.
2) Statements that BFS testing would happen at Boca Chica.
3) Environmental Impact Study (EIS) restrictions on noise from in/around Boca Chica.
4) Video of the BFR/BFS taking off from an off-shore platform.

Well, to answer those:
1) SpaceX can change their minds.
2) SpaceX can test the BFS at Boca Chica without modification to EIS
3) The EIS can be changed with a short comment period.  It's a study, not the law.
4) That's speculative.

All of that said, there are currently oil platforms only a short distance north of the area due-east of Boca Chica.  There is also about four or five miles between the shipping lane and Mexican waters.  That's if you go five miles off shore.  Considering that they can go two or three miles offshore (hey, they're already launching FROM shore) if they want to, that just increases the area available.  They were also planning on clearing shipping traffic anyhow as they do in Florida, Virginia, Kodiak Island, California.

An offshore platform is wide open to them right now and with virtually no restrictions.  They have never once said they plan on an offshore platform there or anywhere other than a video presentation about Point-to-Point travel.

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1614 on: 05/04/2018 05:54 pm »
This is also speculative. Following the link to Planet Explorer above: https://www.planet.com/explorer/#/mosaic/global_monthly_2017_12_mosaic/center/-96.898,26.099/zoom/13
I found that aliens have already provided the beginning of a substantial triangular platform. It is shown rising from beneath the waves in the following print-screen.  With that kind of cooperation, I can see the Mars program facilitated, and expedited. :-)

If that is unsuitable there is plenty of distance from the oil platforms, and room for ships to enter Brownsville.
« Last Edit: 05/04/2018 05:55 pm by DistantTemple »
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Offline deruch

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1615 on: 05/04/2018 08:51 pm »
Beyond public modifications to the EIS for a lad-based pad, what would be some flags that SpaceX intend to launch BFR/BFS from Boca Chica?

BFR/BFS would have to have a launch permit or launch license.  In order to get one, SpaceX will have to submit an EA/EIS on the impacts of launching them from whichever planned site(s) and get a FONSI (Finding of No Significant Impact) or other mitigated approval by the FAA.  This is separate from any modifications to the Boca Chica EIS which was about building and operating the launch site.  I would expect to see the Boca Chica modifications before the permit/license EA on the vehicle, but you never know.  If all that somehow flies under the radar, you can expect to see the permit or license listed on the appropriate FAA webpage.  Also, I suppose at some point we should be on the lookout for the Launch Site Operator's license for Boca Chica, too.
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Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1616 on: 05/04/2018 09:12 pm »
Beyond public modifications to the EIS for a lad-based pad, what would be some flags that SpaceX intend to launch BFR/BFS from Boca Chica?

BFR/BFS would have to have a launch permit or launch license.  In order to get one, SpaceX will have to submit an EA/EIS on the impacts of launching them from whichever planned site(s) and get a FONSI (Finding of No Significant Impact) or other mitigated approval by the FAA.  This is separate from any modifications to the Boca Chica EIS which was about building and operating the launch site.  I would expect to see the Boca Chica modifications before the permit/license EA on the vehicle, but you never know.  If all that somehow flies under the radar, you can expect to see the permit or license listed on the appropriate FAA webpage.  Also, I suppose at some point we should be on the lookout for the Launch Site Operator's license for Boca Chica, too.

They already had sub-orbital flights in original study -- don't know if they specifically stated Falcon 9 flights or more generic. 
If the latter, they may already be covered.
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Online RonM

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1617 on: 05/05/2018 12:03 am »
Beyond public modifications to the EIS for a lad-based pad, what would be some flags that SpaceX intend to launch BFR/BFS from Boca Chica?

BFR/BFS would have to have a launch permit or launch license.  In order to get one, SpaceX will have to submit an EA/EIS on the impacts of launching them from whichever planned site(s) and get a FONSI (Finding of No Significant Impact) or other mitigated approval by the FAA.  This is separate from any modifications to the Boca Chica EIS which was about building and operating the launch site.  I would expect to see the Boca Chica modifications before the permit/license EA on the vehicle, but you never know.  If all that somehow flies under the radar, you can expect to see the permit or license listed on the appropriate FAA webpage.  Also, I suppose at some point we should be on the lookout for the Launch Site Operator's license for Boca Chica, too.

They already had sub-orbital flights in original study -- don't know if they specifically stated Falcon 9 flights or more generic. 
If the latter, they may already be covered.

IIRC, sub-orbital flights have to be with vehicles smaller than F9.

Offline guckyfan

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1618 on: 05/05/2018 06:07 am »
IIRC, sub-orbital flights have to be with vehicles smaller than F9.

Smaller by what metric? Important for environmental impact is thrust and BFS with only the 3 central engines is smaller than F9.

Offline BadgerLegs

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Re: SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 6
« Reply #1619 on: 05/05/2018 11:50 am »
IIRC, sub-orbital flights have to be with vehicles smaller than F9.

No, they do not.  This is ONLY based on the Environmental Impact Study... this is not a law and can be altered as needed after a public comment period.  Given the light resistance in the past to changes, it is highly UNLIKELY the EIS will be anything more than a speed bump for future operations.  Having dozens of commentators on this thread comment over and over again, "well, what about the EIS?" is a bit restrictive to the discourse.  Yes, the original environmental impact study was limited to Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy.  Well, that was based on the "FT" Block 2 at best.  You think they're doing an entire new EIS for Block 5?
« Last Edit: 05/05/2018 11:55 am by BadgerLegs »

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