Author Topic: The Orville premiere on Fox  (Read 44455 times)

Offline eric z

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 303
  • Liked: 212
  • Likes Given: 558
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #60 on: 10/14/2017 08:46 pm »
 My wife just mentioned some more: The one with a western twist at the OK Corral/ The pilot with Capt.Pike/ the one with the white-haired natives[ controlled a la Wizard of Oz-style, IIRC]/ the one with a magician-wiz type guy and a black-cat lady who turn into disintegrating squidly-creatures at the end/ the one with the creatures that [paraphrasing Spock] are to us as we are to the Amoeba/ the one that has to be laughed out of existence...
 Brain-freeze, need a minute! :-[
 The one where the ship gets towed by a bald-little guy with a toothy big grin, and Kirk leaves a crew member with him to have a cultural-exchange. Resisting the temptation to peak at the box-set. :D
« Last Edit: 10/14/2017 09:32 pm by eric z »

Offline eric z

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 303
  • Liked: 212
  • Likes Given: 558
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #61 on: 10/14/2017 09:01 pm »
 Come on everybody, help us out here! Cloud-force that captures ship-wrecked guy and keeps him around for company/ what's that one called where Lincoln and the good guys fight historic bad-guys/ The mute empath girl who is being fine-tuned by interacting with McCoy and the guys/ The one with the high-speed girl buzzing around/ The Horta didn't capture them , but it certainly had them on-the-run!
 The salt-cube episode/ Charlie-X/ uh, time for a soju break! For a change-of-pace, how 'bout the one where the crew go back-in-time and capture an F-104 pilot [ personal fave episode]. ;D
 Oh yeah, "Spock's Brain"! Wife-"That's a classic..."
« Last Edit: 10/14/2017 09:08 pm by eric z »

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11599
  • Liked: 3148
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #62 on: 10/14/2017 10:15 pm »
Here's an example of what I tried to find out: was there anything on Star Trek, resembling time accelerator from Orville episode 1? in what context?
Another example: was there any Star Trek episode where someone from Enterprise was abducted by more advanced species?

There have been so many Star Trek episodes that "Star Trek did it" should be a meme. Yes, to both your questions. Right off the bat, advanced aging was dealt with in the original series episode "The Deadly Years":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deadly_Years

I know that's not exactly the same thing as accelerated time, but it's the first one that came to mind. As far as someone from the Enterprise being abducted by an advanced species, that was also an original series episode, "By Any Other Name" with the Kelvans:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By_Any_Other_Name

That one also featured a species that moved at high speed so that everybody else seemed to be moving extremely slowly.

Here you go (you're welcome):


« Last Edit: 10/14/2017 10:25 pm by Blackstar »

Offline eric z

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 303
  • Liked: 212
  • Likes Given: 558
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #63 on: 10/14/2017 11:38 pm »
 Thanks, Blackstar- the high-speed buzzing-around girl! Great screensaver!

Offline Ronpur50

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2049
  • Brandon, FL
  • Liked: 883
  • Likes Given: 1735
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #64 on: 10/15/2017 12:12 am »
There was an animated Star Trek that had some crew members put on display in an alien zoo.

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4562
  • Liked: 695
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #65 on: 10/15/2017 12:53 am »
I never watch star trek and not planing to (for some reason doesn't click with me), but I like Orville.
So, I'm curious, if there any episode, or story, or premise, or anything else (with exception of costumes, decorations and effects) could be traced back to Star Trek?

I wasn't able to find any sites devoted to this as well. Would appreciate if someone shares the link...


If you look at Episode 4 of the The Orville (Title: "If the Stars Should Appear"), the Captain and his team go onboard a large Worldship ("bio-vessel") containing an entire community of people living under an authoritarian theocracy, who don't even know they're on a large ship.






This is reminiscent of a Star Trek episode called "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky".




« Last Edit: 10/15/2017 01:49 am by sanman »

Online schaban

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 125
  • Liked: 23
  • Likes Given: 25
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #66 on: 10/15/2017 01:48 am »
Thank you all. Very interesting

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11599
  • Liked: 3148
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #67 on: 10/15/2017 01:27 pm »
There was an animated Star Trek that had some crew members put on display in an alien zoo.

That story has actually been done lots of times. The original Star Trek pilot, "The Cage," did that story. I think The Twilight Zone did that story. Futurama also did it. The Orville is not very original or groundbreaking when it comes to stories.

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4562
  • Liked: 695
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #68 on: 10/15/2017 02:28 pm »
That story has actually been done lots of times. The original Star Trek pilot, "The Cage," did that story. I think The Twilight Zone did that story. Futurama also did it. The Orville is not very original or groundbreaking when it comes to stories.

Nor does it really have to be that ground-breaking story-wise, given the dearth of comparably stimulating scifi currently on TV today. Just like retirement of Shuttle exposed a gap that let Musk jump in to fill the breach, likewise the shortcomings of current scifi franchises (including current Star Trek) has created an opening which MacFarlane is now jumping in to fill in a timely way with The Orville. Some are now describing the new show as "Star Trek without a stick up its butt", given its looser and more flexible style within the conventions of the genre, and its inclusion of humor.

I hope that the quality of the writing continues to be high and goes higher still. Maybe it will cause the rest of the entertainment industry to sit up and take notice.

Online Thorny

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 704
  • San Angelo, Texas
  • Liked: 140
  • Likes Given: 168
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #69 on: 10/15/2017 05:32 pm »
Here's an example of what I tried to find out: was there anything on Star Trek, resembling time accelerator from Orville episode 1? in what context?

Yes, several, but the closest is the "Next Generation" episode titled "Timescape", an anomaly causes time to move at different rates in different parts of a Shuttle, and we see an apple (I think) turn rotten in a matter of seconds.

There is also a "Voyager" episode in which another anomaly causes different parts of the starship to be moving at different rates through time. The Doctor responds to an emergency call in the mess hall but arrives there before the emergency happens.

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11599
  • Liked: 3148
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #70 on: 10/15/2017 06:18 pm »
That story has actually been done lots of times. The original Star Trek pilot, "The Cage," did that story. I think The Twilight Zone did that story. Futurama also did it. The Orville is not very original or groundbreaking when it comes to stories.

Nor does it really have to be that ground-breaking story-wise, given the dearth of comparably stimulating scifi currently on TV today. Just like retirement of Shuttle exposed a gap that let Musk jump in to fill the breach, likewise the shortcomings of current scifi franchises (including current Star Trek) has created an opening which MacFarlane is now jumping in to fill in a timely way with The Orville. Some are now describing the new show as "Star Trek without a stick up its butt", given its looser and more flexible style within the conventions of the genre, and its inclusion of humor.

I hope that the quality of the writing continues to be high and goes higher still. Maybe it will cause the rest of the entertainment industry to sit up and take notice.

You worked SpaceX into this discussion? You really couldn't find anyplace else on this board to discuss SpaceX?


Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4562
  • Liked: 695
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #71 on: 10/15/2017 06:34 pm »
You worked SpaceX into this discussion? You really couldn't find anyplace else on this board to discuss SpaceX?

Haha, sorry about that  ;) - one could argue that MacFarlane is trying to disrupt the TV scifi industry with his new offering. On the other hand, he's using established fiction pulled from various sources, and recombining it in a somewhat original way.

Oh well, at least he's doing this without trying to run 3 different TV shows at once.  ;D

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11599
  • Liked: 3148
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #72 on: 10/16/2017 03:32 pm »
given the dearth of comparably stimulating scifi currently on TV today.

I don't get this. I looked it up just to make sure I understood the word you were using:

dearth
noun:

    a scarcity or lack of something.


How could you argue that? There has actually been quite a bit of good sci-fi on television lately, getting lots of praise. Just off the top of my head:

-The Expanse
-Westworld
-Black Mirror
-Stranger Things
-Orphan Black
-Rick and Morty


There's no shortage of good science fiction on TV. There's also a fair amount of junk as well.

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9773
  • Liked: 1460
  • Likes Given: 887
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #73 on: 10/16/2017 03:42 pm »
I agree with him. There is not that much good space syfy. I am so desperate for sci-fi, that I will watch almost anything space-related: killjoy (bad), the 100 (really bad; I have stopped watching it that).

I like the Orville for the most part but it's not very subtle anti-religion messages are annoying.
« Last Edit: 10/16/2017 05:21 pm by yg1968 »

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9773
  • Liked: 1460
  • Likes Given: 887
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #74 on: 10/16/2017 05:20 pm »
SCIENCE (fiction or not) doesn't imply atheism beliefs. Not all scientists are atheists. Besides McFarlane isn't a scientist. The show could do without the atheist preaching and his portrayal of religious people borders intolerance.
« Last Edit: 10/16/2017 05:30 pm by yg1968 »

Online Thorny

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 704
  • San Angelo, Texas
  • Liked: 140
  • Likes Given: 168
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #75 on: 10/16/2017 06:23 pm »
Gene Roddennberry was a self-proclaimed atheist by most conventions (he said "I reject religion" at one point)*.

But Roddenberry also green-lit episodes like "Bread and Circuses" in which the reveal at the end was that the Christ story was happening again on another world (the 20th Century Roman planet.) And in "Who Mourns for Adonais?" when asked if humans still worship the Gods, Kirk tells Apollo "we find the one to be quite adequate." And the Enterprise had a chapel seen in "Balance of Terror".
« Last Edit: 10/16/2017 06:24 pm by Thorny »

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11599
  • Liked: 3148
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #76 on: 10/16/2017 07:45 pm »
But Roddenberry also green-lit episodes like "Bread and Circuses" in which the reveal at the end was that the Christ story was happening again on another world (the 20th Century Roman planet.) And in "Who Mourns for Adonais?" when asked if humans still worship the Gods, Kirk tells Apollo "we find the one to be quite adequate." And the Enterprise had a chapel seen in "Balance of Terror".

But the first two examples you provide fit into one of Roddenberry's themes that god really isn't a deity. I think Harlan Ellison had a oft-repeated quote about Star Trek: The Motion Picture where he derided it as a (paraphrasing) "typical Roddenberry story where they go in search of god and find out that it's a spaceship, or a computer."

The chapel, however, was not consistent with Roddenberry's view that humans would no longer "need" religion by the 23rd century.

There is an interesting history of all of this when you look at how various writers over the years reacted to Roddenberry's views. Probably the best known is how J. Michael Straczynski approached Babylon 5. JMS was himself an atheist, but believed that religion would still be important in the future. He was also very interested in how alien societies would practice religion. He mentioned this in interviews at the time (early 1990s) and said it was in response to Trek's approach. Also notable is that Star Trek: Deep Space Nine introduced a religious element as well. The producers thought that would be useful for storytelling, and they were no longer under Roddenberry's thumb for that series.

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4562
  • Liked: 695
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #77 on: 10/18/2017 09:15 am »
given the dearth of comparably stimulating scifi currently on TV today.

I don't get this. I looked it up just to make sure I understood the word you were using:

dearth
noun:

    a scarcity or lack of something.


How could you argue that? There has actually been quite a bit of good sci-fi on television lately, getting lots of praise. Just off the top of my head:

-The Expanse
-Westworld
-Black Mirror
-Stranger Things
-Orphan Black
-Rick and Morty


There's no shortage of good science fiction on TV. There's also a fair amount of junk as well.

Okay, fair enough - I enjoyed Westworld and The Expanse, but they're not airing any fresh episodes right now - when I said "today", I guess I meant "right now". Also, those shows have a single continuity, and aren't episodic like The Orville is. Same with Discovery. That sort of limits your ability to do the interesting parables the way The Orville does.


There is an interesting history of all of this when you look at how various writers over the years reacted to Roddenberry's views. Probably the best known is how J. Michael Straczynski approached Babylon 5. JMS was himself an atheist, but believed that religion would still be important in the future. He was also very interested in how alien societies would practice religion. He mentioned this in interviews at the time (early 1990s) and said it was in response to Trek's approach. Also notable is that Star Trek: Deep Space Nine introduced a religious element as well. The producers thought that would be useful for storytelling, and they were no longer under Roddenberry's thumb for that series.

Back when the original Babylon5 pilot first aired (1992?), I emailed Stracyznski to ask him about it, and to my surprise he responded back. He told me that one of the key races in the show, the Minbari, were very spiritual and that 'Minbar' was a pulpit in a mosque.
« Last Edit: 10/18/2017 09:17 am by sanman »

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11599
  • Liked: 3148
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #78 on: 10/18/2017 05:14 pm »
Okay, fair enough - I enjoyed Westworld and The Expanse, but they're not airing any fresh episodes right now - when I said "today", I guess I meant "right now". Also, those shows have a single continuity, and aren't episodic like The Orville is. Same with Discovery. That sort of limits your ability to do the interesting parables the way The Orville does.

Is there even a definition of "right now" anymore? After all, many people are probably waiting until Discovery is over and they will then binge-watch all the episodes in a day (15 episodes are planned, and we just saw #5). And the new season of Stranger Things drops on Halloween. I think that we have a fair amount of pretty good science fiction that is happening now, even if we're between seasons on some things.

Discovery is not very episodic--it's mostly a story arc. That's the fashion these days. But there's a range of ways that you can plot a series. Remember that DS9 and other sci-fi series did overall story arcs with stand-alone episodes scattered among them. Even The Orville is implying a story arc with the Krill. We're learning more about them with each episode, and they'll probably do some kind of big revelation.


Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11599
  • Liked: 3148
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #79 on: 10/18/2017 05:21 pm »
Back when the original Babylon5 pilot first aired (1992?), I emailed Stracyznski to ask him about it, and to my surprise he responded back. He told me that one of the key races in the show, the Minbari, were very spiritual and that 'Minbar' was a pulpit in a mosque.

JMS was really one of the first TV show producers to directly interact with fans. He was certainly the first to do it on a regular basis. This eventually bit him in the butt when somebody (apparently a Trek fan) sent him a file, he opened it, and it wiped out much of his hard drive. I think he really backed off on communicating with "fans" then.

B5 is mostly forgotten now, but it really was different in a number of ways, including production. JMS set out an overall story arc for his entire series. He had to change a number of things along the way (for instance, his lead actor dropped out due to mental illness), but it really had a direction to it. The show had redemption arcs for some of its characters (note that in the first few episodes G'Kar is a playboy and a joke, and by the end of the series he is a noble and thoughtful character). It had a (brief) gay relationship. One character was an alcoholic. And it could be deeply gloomy at times. I think that it influenced a number of other shows in ways that are not always acknowledged.

Tags: