Author Topic: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128  (Read 12099 times)

Offline Star One

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I am really keen to see how this is reported as no doubt the mainstream media & social media will get overexcited about this once they pick up on it.

The thing about the satellite explanation is though they might know where the civilian satellites are that's not necessarily going to be the case with all the classified satellites?

Though it would be nicely ironic on a wild flight of fantasy if it was aliens from a supposedly inhospitable red dwarf system, considering how difficult living with such a star seems to be for life.

Quote
Two weeks after these observations, we realized that there were some very peculiar signals in the 10-minute dynamic spectrum that we obtained from Ross 128 (GJ 447), observed May 12 at 8:53 PM AST (2017/05/13 00:53:55 UTC). The signals consisted of broadband quasi-periodic non-polarized pulses with very strong dispersion-like features. We believe that the signals are not local radio frequency interferences (RFI) since they are unique to Ross 128 and observations of other stars immediately before and after did not show anything similar.

We do not know the origin of these signals but there are three main possible explanations: they could be (1) emissions from Ross 128 similar to Type II solar flares, (2) emissions from another object in the field of view of Ross 128, or just (3) burst from a high orbit satellite since low orbit satellites are quick to move out of the field of view. The signals are probably too dim for other radio telescopes in the world and FAST is currently under calibration.

Each of the possible explanations has their own problems. For example, Type II solar flares occur at much lower frequencies and the dispersion suggests a much farther source or a dense electron field (e.g. the stellar atmosphere?). Also, there are no many nearby objects in the field of view of Ross 128 and we have never seen satellites emit bursts like that, which were common in our other star observations. In case you are wondering, the recurrent aliens hypothesis is at the bottom of many other better explanations.

Therefore, we have a mystery here and the three main explanations are as good as any at this moment. Fortunately, we obtained more time to observe Ross 128 next Sunday, July 16, and we might clarify soon the nature of its radio emissions, but there are no guarantees. We will also observe Barnard’s star that day to collaborate with the Red Dots project. Results from our observations will be presented later that week. I have a Piña Colada ready to celebrate if the signals result to be astronomical in nature.

http://phl.upr.edu/library/notes/ross128
« Last Edit: 07/14/2017 10:11 AM by Star One »

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #1 on: 07/14/2017 01:09 PM »
Magnetic storms in the stellar corona synchronised to the movement of large scale objects (mega sunspots?) through the object's magnetic field as the star rotates? Does anyone know the solar activity cycle of Ross 128?
« Last Edit: 07/14/2017 01:10 PM by Ben the Space Brit »
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Offline Star One

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #2 on: 07/14/2017 01:54 PM »
Magnetic storms in the stellar corona synchronised to the movement of large scale objects (mega sunspots?) through the object's magnetic field as the star rotates? Does anyone know the solar activity cycle of Ross 128?

The article at least indicates this has been examined as a possibility but suggests there are issues with as an explanation?

Offline notsorandom

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #3 on: 07/14/2017 02:02 PM »
Were I to guess I'd guess that it is a natural phenomenon. Because it is a non-polarized broad band signal and shows dispersion like features it doesn't seem consistent with one generated by an intelligence either terrestrial or not.

Offline Star One

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #4 on: 07/14/2017 03:10 PM »
Were I to guess I'd guess that it is a natural phenomenon. Because it is a non-polarized broad band signal and shows dispersion like features it doesn't seem consistent with one generated by an intelligence either terrestrial or not.

Could explain why that's indicative of a natural phenomena?

Offline notsorandom

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #5 on: 07/14/2017 04:21 PM »
Were I to guess I'd guess that it is a natural phenomenon. Because it is a non-polarized broad band signal and shows dispersion like features it doesn't seem consistent with one generated by an intelligence either terrestrial or not.

Could explain why that's indicative of a natural phenomena?
Sure, an intelligent source would want to generate the most efficient signal the easiest way they could. For communications the narrowest bandwidth necessary to accommodate the required bit rate is the most efficient, using the least amount of transmitter power. For other uses such as RADAR or trying to get our attention a very narrow bandwidth is also the most efficient. It is also easiest to generate a polarized signal and its most efficient for the transmitting antenna and receiving antenna to be the same polarization. The TDRSs use left hand circular polarization for example.

The dispersion features, which I am assuming means that the lower frequency parts of the signal arrived a bit later then the higher frequency parts, wouldn't be seen over such a short interstellar distance from an artificial transmitter. A signal can show dispersion after traveling for very long distances due to interstellar matter. Natural signals can also be generated in a way that causes dispersion. Some of the radio signals Jupiter makes show this.

Offline Star One

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #6 on: 07/14/2017 04:24 PM »
Were I to guess I'd guess that it is a natural phenomenon. Because it is a non-polarized broad band signal and shows dispersion like features it doesn't seem consistent with one generated by an intelligence either terrestrial or not.

Could explain why that's indicative of a natural phenomena?
Sure, an intelligent source would want to generate the most efficient signal the easiest way they could. For communications the narrowest bandwidth necessary to accommodate the required bit rate is the most efficient, using the least amount of transmitter power. For other uses such as RADAR or trying to get our attention a very narrow bandwidth is also the most efficient. It is also easiest to generate a polarized signal and its most efficient for the transmitting antenna and receiving antenna to be the same polarization. The TDRSs use left hand circular polarization for example.

The dispersion features, which I am assuming means that the lower frequency parts of the signal arrived a bit later then the higher frequency parts, wouldn't be seen over such a short interstellar distance from an artificial transmitter. A signal can show dispersion after traveling for very long distances due to interstellar matter. Natural signals can also be generated in a way that causes dispersion. Some of the radio signals Jupiter makes show this.

Thank you for that explanation. Unfortunately such analysis will probably be missing if this picks up further coverage.

Offline Star One

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #7 on: 07/14/2017 10:23 PM »
There's more details on the planned follow up observations in this article.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/ross-128-red-dwarf-radio-signals-mystery-2017-7

Offline starsilk

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #8 on: 07/14/2017 11:12 PM »
Were I to guess I'd guess that it is a natural phenomenon. Because it is a non-polarized broad band signal and shows dispersion like features it doesn't seem consistent with one generated by an intelligence either terrestrial or not.

Could explain why that's indicative of a natural phenomena?
Sure, an intelligent source would want to generate the most efficient signal the easiest way they could. For communications the narrowest bandwidth necessary to accommodate the required bit rate is the most efficient, using the least amount of transmitter power. For other uses such as RADAR or trying to get our attention a very narrow bandwidth is also the most efficient. It is also easiest to generate a polarized signal and its most efficient for the transmitting antenna and receiving antenna to be the same polarization. The TDRSs use left hand circular polarization for example.

just to play Devil's advocate for a moment, if you were trying to broadcast a 'here we are' signal, you would probably want something a bit more... noticeable.  broad range of bandwidths, no special polarization etc etc.

not aiming for optimal bandwidth, just a beacon that anyone listening with a crystal radio might hear.

Online Dao Angkan

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #9 on: 07/15/2017 03:40 PM »
For a 'here we are' beacon, wouldn't a lighthouse type signal be more efficient? i.e. a narrow bandwidth signal sweeping across the whole sky at regular intervals. It might appear somewhat like a pulsar.
« Last Edit: 07/15/2017 03:44 PM by Dao Angkan »

Offline Star One

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Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #10 on: 07/15/2017 09:20 PM »
Quote
Eight telescopes from United States, Spain, Chile, and Puerto Rico are coordinating observations tomorrow of #Barnard's Star and #Ross128

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfAbelMendez/status/886266726069014529

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Prof. Abel Méndez @ProfAbelMendez

The two big questions for tomorrow are: How active in radio is #Barnard's Star? What's the source of the radio signals from #Ross128?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfAbelMendez/status/886269837768568833

Quote
Prof. Abel Méndez @ProfAbelMendez

Confirmed: Green Bank and SETI Institute's ATA will be together with us observing #Ross128 tomorrow.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfAbelMendez/status/886288344350588930
« Last Edit: 07/15/2017 09:23 PM by Star One »

Offline Star One

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Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #11 on: 07/17/2017 07:57 AM »
Data taken from both stars. Results well we will all just have to wait.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfAbelMendez/status/886838000415625216
« Last Edit: 07/17/2017 07:57 AM by Star One »

Online jebbo

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #12 on: 07/17/2017 10:29 AM »
The dispersion features, which I am assuming means that the lower frequency parts of the signal arrived a bit later then the higher frequency parts, wouldn't be seen over such a short interstellar distance from an artificial transmitter. A signal can show dispersion after traveling for very long distances due to interstellar matter. Natural signals can also be generated in a way that causes dispersion. Some of the radio signals Jupiter makes show this.

For a star at the distance of Ross 128, you'd expect, very roughly, a 10us lag between the 5GHz and 4GHz signals due to the ISM (assuming average interstellar electron density).

Apparently the lag is significantly more than this, which is consistent with either transmission through the stellar corona (i.e. a source at the stellar surface) or a much more distant source.  Hence the desire for more observations to resolve this ... [the betting has to be on something flare-like from the star].

Edit: interstellar dispersion affects all signals, whether natural or artificial (and is a problem for interstellar communication).

--- Tony
« Last Edit: 07/17/2017 10:38 AM by jebbo »

Offline notsorandom

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #13 on: 07/17/2017 02:18 PM »
just to play Devil's advocate for a moment, if you were trying to broadcast a 'here we are' signal, you would probably want something a bit more... noticeable.  broad range of bandwidths, no special polarization etc etc.

not aiming for optimal bandwidth, just a beacon that anyone listening with a crystal radio might hear.
A narrow transmitting bandwidth is still your best bet. A narrow band signal is unmistakably artificial so there is no ambiguity about what created it. It also give the best signal to noise ratio is there is a greater chance of detecting it. The receiver doesn't have to be listening over a narrow bandwidth to detect such a signal. A receiver can also be built to simultaneously listen to many narrow band signals at once. SETI's SERENDIP receiver can listen to over 1 million narrow band channels.

For a 'here we are' beacon, wouldn't a lighthouse type signal be more efficient? i.e. a narrow bandwidth signal sweeping across the whole sky at regular intervals. It might appear somewhat like a pulsar.
A narrow bandwidth and narrow beam signal will give the highest signal to noise ratio for a given transmitter power. If you were trying to make a beacon though I think one could be even a bit more clever than that about maximizing your chances to be detected. They would know how much power you could transmit and how much gain the antenna could produce. They then could figure out from that how far away you signal could be detected with a reasonably sized antenna and reasonably sensitive detector. Rather than sweeping your beam across the sky you could specifically target all the stars in that area. Once the antenna was pointed at all the stars on the list then it would make sense to start at the beginning of the list again. So the signal may be periodic but not as quickly as a pulsar beam.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #14 on: 07/17/2017 02:58 PM »
If I wanted to have a 'Hello, Here I Am' interstellar beacon, I'd try to mimic a maser at a frequency for a molecule that could not be present in a star of my system's primary's spectral type and that pulsed at a frequency that cannot be any kind of multiple or fraction of the star's natural rotation that could be caused by surface or coronal features.

Basically, make 'em look and, when they do, have the details of the signal that are not compatible with any non-sentient source (except with extreme magical thinking).
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Offline missinglink

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #15 on: 07/17/2017 05:05 PM »
Remember, a beacon is what drew the Nostromo to that accursed planet and we all know what happened to the crew afterward.

Offline starsilk

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #16 on: 07/17/2017 05:57 PM »
any beacon would need to be easily identifiable as 'intelligent', and that's not difficult to do - pulsing out prime numbers for example. 2, 3, 5, 7 is all you need. that would give pretty much any intelligent listener a 'wow' moment.

Offline Star One

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #17 on: 07/17/2017 07:11 PM »
Well it could be a navigation beacon for their own use rather than a hello we are here type of beacon, and as a result I'd thought that would impact its characteristics.

Offline Star One

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Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #18 on: 07/18/2017 09:27 AM »
Quote
setiquest.info shows the ATA observing Ross128, in the Virgo constellation, then Barnard's Star at 01:45UTC #ATASETI

https://mobile.twitter.com/jrseti/status/886671656743088128

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Observing #ROSS128 today from the ATA with @NAICobservatory and @GrnBnkTelescope, the pic is the visibility

https://mobile.twitter.com/jrseti/status/886666140788772865

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What's your opinion about the signals from Ross 128?

Link to poll on link below.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfAbelMendez/status/887007497776746497
« Last Edit: 07/18/2017 09:30 AM by Star One »

Offline hkultala

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #19 on: 07/18/2017 09:47 AM »
any beacon would need to be easily identifiable as 'intelligent', and that's not difficult to do - pulsing out prime numbers for example. 2, 3, 5, 7 is all you need. that would give pretty much any intelligent listener a 'wow' moment.

Radio waves are not numbers, you cannot send them directly.

You have to encode and modulate the numbers somehow when transmitting them.

And then the receiver has to be able to understand the modulation, demodulate it, and also understand the encoding to do the decoding.
« Last Edit: 07/18/2017 09:48 AM by hkultala »

Offline Star One

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Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #20 on: 07/18/2017 10:41 AM »
Quote
Prof. Abel Méndez @ProfAbelMendez

We are trying to post the results from the observations of #Ross128 before the end of the week.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfAbelMendez/status/887049036800434177

Criticism on the link for not following SETI protocols, defence was they don't think they are SETI, but conceded SETI observatories have joined in the observations.

Quote
Prof. Abel Méndez @ProfAbelMendez

We are waiting for all results to reach a conclusion on the nature of the signals from #Ross128 later this week. Spoilers: not aliens.
8:16 am · 18 Jul 2017

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfAbelMendez/status/887209327957815301
« Last Edit: 07/18/2017 10:45 AM by Star One »

Offline faramund

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #21 on: 07/18/2017 10:45 AM »
If SETI protocols conflict with, "release information as we get it", they should be thrown away!!

Offline starsilk

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #22 on: 07/18/2017 03:47 PM »
any beacon would need to be easily identifiable as 'intelligent', and that's not difficult to do - pulsing out prime numbers for example. 2, 3, 5, 7 is all you need. that would give pretty much any intelligent listener a 'wow' moment.

Radio waves are not numbers, you cannot send them directly.

You have to encode and modulate the numbers somehow when transmitting them.

And then the receiver has to be able to understand the modulation, demodulate it, and also understand the encoding to do the decoding.

give me a a *little* credit for intelligence...

on off on off.

pause

on off on off on off.

pause

on off on off on off on off on off.

pause

on off on off on off on off on off on off on off.

pause

'WOW!'

simplest encoding scheme possible.

Offline Star One

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Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #23 on: 07/19/2017 09:21 AM »
SETI press release

Signals from A Nearby Star System?

Quote
It’s unlikely that Ross 128 has been big in your life.  In fact, it’s unlikely you’ve ever seen it, despite the fact that it’s nestled in the prominent summer constellation, Virgo.  That’s because Ross 128 is a dim bulb of a star, a so-called red dwarf.  Even on the darkest of moonless nights, it’s 100 times too faint to be seen with the naked eye.

In May, radio astronomers at the Arecibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico pointed their Brobdingnagian antenna in the direction of Ross 128.  The researchers’ interest was to learn if they could measure any natural radio emissions from this very close (11 light-years) dwarf.  Such stars are known to act up, and the turbulent flares that erupt from their surfaces produce radio static.  The hope was that small changes in such emission might offer clues to planets whose magnetic fields might perturb these stellar storms. (Note that Ross 128 does not have any known planets, but that doesn’t guarantee there aren’t any.

What the Puerto Rican astronomers found when the data were analyzed was a wide-band radio signal.  This signal not only repeated with time, but also slid down the radio dial, somewhat like a trombone going from a higher note to a lower one.

That was odd, indeed. And the discoverers, led by Abel Mendez at the University of Puerto Rico, immediately enlisted the help of other astronomical observatories to keep watch on Ross 128. They suspected one of three possible causes for the radio noise: (1) Flares from the star, as above; (2) other background astronomical source, or (3) terrestrial interference, most likely from some artificial satellite. A deliberate transmission from intelligent beings on a planet near the star is another possibility of course, but was at the bottom of their list.

The Arecibo observers were careful to point out that the intelligent beings explanation – while instinctively more appealing than a barrel of kittens – was the least likely. Still, the facts are that no one yet knows for sure what’s going on in this system.

Beginning last weekend, Jon Richards swung the SETI Institute’s Allen Telescope Arrayin the direction of Ross 128, and so far has collected more than 10 hours of data.  Even using the massive Arecibo antenna, the detected signal was weak, and that makes its detection with other instruments difficult.  But it’s obviously important to check the signal out and, insofar as possible, see if it’s really coming from the Ross 128 star system.

Institute scientist Gerry Harp is looking at the ATA data now, and this page will be updated with whatever findings are made.  Of course it’s possible that Ross 128 will shed its anonymity and become the first star system to show good evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence.  But it’s likely – at least on the basis of past experience – that we will find another, less romantic explanation for the mystery that now enshrouds this object.  That, of course, is a frequent occurrence for anyone doing exploration, and hardly a cause for discouragement, but rather an incentive to continue the search.

https://www.seti.org/signals-from-a-nearby-system
« Last Edit: 07/19/2017 09:23 AM by Star One »

Offline Star One

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Offline Star One

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Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #25 on: 07/20/2017 09:04 AM »
Guessing one explanation will be flares from Ross 128.

Anyone want to guess on the other explanation?

Quote
Prof. Abel Méndez @ProfAbelMendez

I analyzed the #Ross128 data and reduced the explanations for the signals from many to just two. Still waiting for other observatories data.
12:29 am · 20 Jul 2017

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfAbelMendez/status/887816576497590272

Quote
Prof. Abel Méndez @ProfAbelMendez

Full explanation of the signals of #Ross128 will be given on Friday.
12:48 am · 20 Jul 2017

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfAbelMendez/status/887821432926986242
« Last Edit: 07/20/2017 09:05 AM by Star One »

Offline Star One

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #26 on: 07/21/2017 07:30 AM »
Likely satellite produced RFI.

http://seti.berkeley.edu/ross128.pdf

Offline notsorandom

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #27 on: 07/21/2017 02:30 PM »
Likely satellite produced RFI.

http://seti.berkeley.edu/ross128.pdf
I don't think we can say that a satellites is the likely explanation based on that paper, just that it is a realistic possibility. BL determined that there are satellites that have C band transmitters that may have been in the field of view. They didn't report if these were really in Arecibo's beam or if they were just near it. They didn't detect any signals either from Ross 128 or one of these satellites. Though the satellites are listed as operating in the C band they didn't investigate if they were supped to be operating in this specific part of the band with these signal characteristics. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be a satellite but because the signal was so faint and showed dispersion I'm thinking its also got a fair chance of being from further away.

Offline Star One

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #28 on: 07/21/2017 02:34 PM »
Not sure what time this works out at in the UK.

Quote
Prof. Abel Méndez @ProfAbelMendez

Our conclusion on #Ross128 will be posted here at 11 AM AST.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfAbelMendez/status/888389584652046336

Offline Scylla

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #29 on: 07/21/2017 02:40 PM »
Not sure what time this works out at in the UK.

Quote
Prof. Abel Méndez @ProfAbelMendez

Our conclusion on #Ross128 will be posted here at 11 AM AST.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfAbelMendez/status/888389584652046336
2PM UTC
I reject your reality and substitute my own--Doctor Who

Offline Star One

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #30 on: 07/21/2017 02:41 PM »
Not sure what time this works out at in the UK.

Quote
Prof. Abel Méndez @ProfAbelMendez

Our conclusion on #Ross128 will be posted here at 11 AM AST.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfAbelMendez/status/888389584652046336
2PM UTC

Thank you.

Offline Star One

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #31 on: 07/21/2017 04:07 PM »
Likely satellite produced RFI.

http://seti.berkeley.edu/ross128.pdf
I don't think we can say that a satellites is the likely explanation based on that paper, just that it is a realistic possibility. BL determined that there are satellites that have C band transmitters that may have been in the field of view. They didn't report if these were really in Arecibo's beam or if they were just near it. They didn't detect any signals either from Ross 128 or one of these satellites. Though the satellites are listed as operating in the C band they didn't investigate if they were supped to be operating in this specific part of the band with these signal characteristics. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be a satellite but because the signal was so faint and showed dispersion I'm thinking its also got a fair chance of being from further away.
Nope definitely a satellite.

Quote
Prof. Abel Méndez @ProfAbelMendez
The #Weird!Signal was most likely caused by one or more geostationary satellites. The shape of the signal is still under investigacion.4:38 pm · 21 Jul 2017

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfAbelMendez/status/888422880043819009

Offline Star One

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #32 on: 07/21/2017 06:56 PM »
Here's the PHL press release.

Quote
After a careful analysis of the observations we performed last Sunday from the Arecibo Observatory, together with SETI Berkeley using the Green Bank Telescope and the SETI Institute’s Allen Telescope Array, we are now confident about the source of the Weird! Signal. The best explanation is that the signals are transmissions from one or more geostationary satellites. This explains why the signals were within the satellite’s frequencies and only appeared and persisted for Ross 128; this star is close to the celestial equator where many geostationary satellites are located. This fact, though, does not yet explain the strong dispersion-like features of the signals (diagonal lines in the figure); however, It is possible that multiple reflections caused these distortions, but we will need more time to explore this and other possibilities.

http://phl.upr.edu/press-releases/theweirdsignal

Is it me or in light of the above aren't they rather jumping to conclusions here without analysing all data?
« Last Edit: 07/21/2017 06:58 PM by Star One »

Offline Star One

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #33 on: 07/21/2017 09:00 PM »
Oh dear he's now being mocked by his fellow astronomers.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfAbelMendez/status/888483542463729664

Offline Star One

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Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #34 on: 07/22/2017 08:32 AM »
If you follow the above link it becomes a debate over whether it is appropriate for scientists to publicise preliminary results or not.
« Last Edit: 07/22/2017 08:32 AM by Star One »

Offline Star One

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Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #35 on: 07/24/2017 07:03 PM »
In spite of having a solution ATA has again been observing Ross 128.
« Last Edit: 07/24/2017 07:05 PM by Star One »

Offline Star One

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #36 on: 10/24/2017 07:14 PM »
Breakthrough Listen Follow-up of the Reported Transient Signal Observed at the Arecibo Telescope in the Direction of Ross 128

Quote
We undertook observations with the Green Bank Telescope, simultaneously with the 300m telescope in Arecibo, as a follow-up of a possible flare of radio emission from Ross 128. We report here the non-detections from the GBT observations in C band (4-8 GHz), as well as non-detections in archival data at L band (1.1-1.9 GHz). We suggest that a likely scenario is that the emission comes from one or more satellites passing through the same region of the sky.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1710.08404

Offline Star One

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #37 on: 11/15/2017 05:11 PM »
This newly discovered Earth-sized planet could harbor life

Quote
Meet the new neighbor: an Earth-sized exoplanet just 11 light-years away that could potentially harbor life.

European scientists announced today the discovery of a world orbiting nearby star Ross 128. The planet, named Ross 128 b, has a predicted temperature range that could allow liquid water to exist on the surface. Ross 128 b is now the second-closest such world to Earth; only Proxima Centauri b, at 4.25 light years away, is closer.

Xavier Bonfils, the lead author of the paper announcing the discovery in the journal Astronomy & Astrophysics, told me via email Ross 128 b has a mass about 1.35 times that of Earth.

Quote
As if this news wasn't interesting enough, there's also a SETI (search for extraterrestrial intelligence) angle to the story. Earlier this year, Ross 128 made headlines because it appeared to be sending out a semi-repeating radio signal. The signal was later explained to likely be a geostationary satellite in Earth orbit, but today's announcement puts Ross 128 back in play as a star system potentially capable of hosting life. The newly found exoplanet will soon be the target of many future observations—including SETI searches.

"We are considering additional follow-up in light of the new discovery at radio and optical wavelengths," said Andrew Siemion, the director of the SETI Research Center at the University of California, Berkeley, in an email. "Nearby exoplanets are particularly exciting from a SETI perspective, as they permit us to search for and potentially detect much weaker signals than from more distant targets."

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/2017/20171115-ross-128b.html

Offline scienceguy

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #38 on: 11/16/2017 01:06 AM »
This story was also reported by cbc:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/exoplanet-earth-like-temperature-quiet-star-1.4400440

Regardless of the alleged ET signals, the discovery of this planet is significant.
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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #39 on: 11/16/2017 03:16 AM »
This story was also reported by cbc:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/exoplanet-earth-like-temperature-quiet-star-1.4400440

Regardless of the alleged ET signals, the discovery of this planet is significant.

I'm still amazed how red dwarfs are harboring planets, Earths no less!
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Offline CuddlyRocket

This newly discovered Earth-sized planet could harbor life

You can find the paper at A temperate exo-Earth around a quiet M dwarf at 3.4 parsecs

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #41 on: 11/16/2017 07:13 AM »
Personally, I think the lack of activity and its impact on habitability is overblown.

Ross 128 is a pretty old star (~10bn years I think; still v young for an M dwarf ) so will be less active and I'm not sure you can safely conclude that it wasn't active when very young  - which is when most of the atmosphere and volatile loss occurs.

On the strange signals, they are almost certainly terrestrial ...
Edit: covered here https://www.skymania.com/wp/2017/11/earth-sized-temperate-planet-found-direction-mystery-radio-signals.html/18504/

--- Tony
« Last Edit: 11/16/2017 09:02 AM by jebbo »

Offline Star One

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #42 on: 11/16/2017 03:26 PM »
Personally, I think the lack of activity and its impact on habitability is overblown.

Ross 128 is a pretty old star (~10bn years I think; still v young for an M dwarf ) so will be less active and I'm not sure you can safely conclude that it wasn't active when very young  - which is when most of the atmosphere and volatile loss occurs.

On the strange signals, they are almost certainly terrestrial ...
Edit: covered here https://www.skymania.com/wp/2017/11/earth-sized-temperate-planet-found-direction-mystery-radio-signals.html/18504/

--- Tony

That’s true but if the planet moved into towards the star at a later date it may have avoided the worst of the star’s activity.

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #43 on: 11/16/2017 04:39 PM »
Just out of interest, do we have sensors with sufficient resolution to pick up bio-indicators in Ross-128b's atmosphere like free oxygen or even ozone (spectrographically, at least) or would the primary totally drown out even reflection data?
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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #44 on: 11/16/2017 04:45 PM »
Just out of interest, do we have sensors with sufficient resolution to pick up bio-indicators in Ross-128b's atmosphere like free oxygen or even ozone (spectrographically, at least) or would the primary totally drown out even reflection data?

Not yet. With a bit of work we can just about manage it for Proxima, but not for Ross 128.  See the "Astronomy" thread, where I posted a few more details

--- Tony

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #45 on: 11/16/2017 06:44 PM »
Personally, I think the lack of activity and its impact on habitability is overblown.

Ross 128 is a pretty old star (~10bn years I think; still v young for an M dwarf ) so will be less active and I'm not sure you can safely conclude that it wasn't active when very young  - which is when most of the atmosphere and volatile loss occurs.

On the strange signals, they are almost certainly terrestrial ...
Edit: covered here https://www.skymania.com/wp/2017/11/earth-sized-temperate-planet-found-direction-mystery-radio-signals.html/18504/

--- Tony

I don't disagree with your general point that it may be less active due to age, but metallicity seems to be too high to have an age of ~10Gyr. I think latest estimates are ~5Gyr, but there's probably a decent margin of error.
« Last Edit: 11/16/2017 06:48 PM by Dao Angkan »

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #46 on: 11/16/2017 07:00 PM »
Agreed. Originally I took the age from Wikipedia, but the metallicity made me wonder. Wikipedia turns out to be wrong: the 9.45bn is actually the log10 of the age, so probably about 2.8bn years old. The paper is https://arxiv.org/abs/1501.01635

Edit: seeing a couple of [Fe/H] values (-0.02, -0.08) from ~2015.

--- Tony
« Last Edit: 11/16/2017 07:29 PM by jebbo »

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Re: Strange Signals from the Nearby Red Dwarf Star Ross 128
« Reply #47 on: 11/16/2017 07:24 PM »
Personally, I think the lack of activity and its impact on habitability is overblown.

Ross 128 is a pretty old star (~10bn years I think; still v young for an M dwarf ) so will be less active and I'm not sure you can safely conclude that it wasn't active when very young  - which is when most of the atmosphere and volatile loss occurs.

On the strange signals, they are almost certainly terrestrial ...
Edit: covered here https://www.skymania.com/wp/2017/11/earth-sized-temperate-planet-found-direction-mystery-radio-signals.html/18504/

--- Tony

That’s true but if the planet moved into towards the star at a later date it may have avoided the worst of the star’s activity.

I think that planetary migration is generally theorised to occur very early in a solar systems life, whilst it still has a protoplanetary
disk to exchange momentum with. Once the "planetary neighbourhood" is cleared, then it would require a quite unlikely turn of events to "swing" a planet from an outer orbit, to an inner orbit. Not impossible, but not very likely.

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