Firefly Space : Company and Development General Thread

[Asteroza]

My understanding is that a significant number of engine components (turbopumps, etc.) were being manufactured in the Ukraine.  I would guess they have parts in the US for at least a couple more rockets, but how long will it take them to move all manufacturing state-side? 

Why wouldn't they be able to continue importing parts?  ULA does it (Russia and Europe).  Northrop Grumman does it (Russia and Ukraine).  NASA does it (Orion ESM from Europe).  Etc. 

 - Ed Kyle   

Because ITAR is dumb and applies also to parts/info entering the US, not just parts/info leaving the US. Somehow the aim of not allowing dual use tech to leave the US was insufficient, so the expanded aim was to impede all tech transfer abroad by putting a boat anchor of a regulation on US inbound transfer as well. Which didn't work in the face of ITAR-free products coming into vogue from the EU. Japan was going to get dinged by this around when ITAR came into force, but due to a side agreement between the US and Japan to protect japanese car exports, japan agreed to functionally kill their blooming satellite tech export industry thereby protecting US satellite tech exports, but then the US shot itself in the foot with ITAR, crippling the US sate tech export industry as well. The EU saw this opportunity and many UK space companies got into the ITAR-free sat parts business to feed the latent international market demand.

[JEF_300]

My understanding was that while they used Ukrainian tech and designs in places, that everything was manufactured in the US.

At least some components are manufactured by Yuzmash: https://ain.ua/en/2019/11/01/pivdenmash-receives-order-from-firefly/

They were already building and test firing Reaver 1s when this deal was made, which suggests that it may be for Reaver 2. At the very least, we know that they can produce Reaver 1s totally domestically.

[imprezive]

Considering Firefly was started with IP theft I don’t think you can say off hand it’s just generic ITAR concerns.

https://www.crowelltradesecretstrends.com/2016/10/space-race-starts-anew-as-virgin-galactic-files-trade-secrets-claims-against-rival/

[edkyle99]

My understanding is that a significant number of engine components (turbopumps, etc.) were being manufactured in the Ukraine.  I would guess they have parts in the US for at least a couple more rockets, but how long will it take them to move all manufacturing state-side? 

Why wouldn't they be able to continue importing parts?  ULA does it (Russia and Europe).  Northrop Grumman does it (Russia and Ukraine).  NASA does it (Orion ESM from Europe).  Etc. 

 - Ed Kyle   

Because ITAR is dumb and applies also to parts/info entering the US, not just parts/info leaving the US. Somehow the aim of not allowing dual use tech to leave the US was insufficient, so the expanded aim was to impede all tech transfer abroad by putting a boat anchor of a regulation on US inbound transfer as well. Which didn't work in the face of ITAR-free products coming into vogue from the EU. Japan was going to get dinged by this around when ITAR came into force, but due to a side agreement between the US and Japan to protect japanese car exports, japan agreed to functionally kill their blooming satellite tech export industry thereby protecting US satellite tech exports, but then the US shot itself in the foot with ITAR, crippling the US sate tech export industry as well. The EU saw this opportunity and many UK space companies got into the ITAR-free sat parts business to feed the latent international market demand.

And yet right now there is a rocket with a Ukrainian first stage powered by Russian engines and a payload partly built in Europe on a launch pad in Virginia.

 - Ed Kyle

[JayWee]

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1496945676298723338

AE Industrial Partners is taking a “significant stake” in Firefly, buying it from Noosphere Ventures. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Noosphere said in December it had to divest its stake because of CFIUS.

[TrevorMonty]

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1496945676298723338

AE Industrial Partners is taking a “significant stake” in Firefly, buying it from Noosphere Ventures. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Noosphere said in December it had to divest its stake because of CFIUS.

AE Industrial have investments in Sierra Space and Redwire besides others.


Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

[JayWee]

AE Industrial Partners is taking a “significant stake” in Firefly, buying it from Noosphere Ventures. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Noosphere said in December it had to divest its stake because of CFIUS.

AE Industrial have investments in Sierra Space and Redwire besides others.


Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Hmm.. so Dream Chaser on Firefly Beta?

[TrevorMonty]

AE Industrial Partners is taking a “significant stake” in Firefly, buying it from Noosphere Ventures. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Noosphere said in December it had to divest its stake because of CFIUS.

AE Industrial have investments in Sierra Space and Redwire besides others.


Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Hmm.. so Dream Chaser on Firefly Beta?

Maybe?.

I didn't investigate all companies they've invested in but far few would build space HW that will need LV at some stage. Having LV in family makes lot of sense.



Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

[russianhalo117]

AE Industrial Partners is taking a “significant stake” in Firefly, buying it from Noosphere Ventures. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Noosphere said in December it had to divest its stake because of CFIUS.

AE Industrial have investments in Sierra Space and Redwire besides others.


Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Hmm.. so Dream Chaser on Firefly Beta?

Maybe?.

I didn't investigate all companies they've invested in but far few would build space HW that will need LV at some stage. Having LV in family makes lot of sense.



Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

No.

DC requires at minimum ULA's 5 meter diameter long PLF made by RUAG USA and is launching near the payload limit of a Vulcan Centaur VC4L which based on the current figures caps out at 23900kg for ULA's standard LEO orbital parameters.

Firefly Beta come nowhere close to even getting off the pad with a completely empty dry mass only DC. Sure maybe a future Firefly launcher further along the Greek Alphabet.

https://firefly.com/launch-beta/

[JayWee]

I wonder how's Firefly's Ukraine R&D center in Dnipro doing... And how important they are for Firefly

[russianhalo117]

I wonder how's Firefly's Ukraine R&D center in Dnipro doing... And how important they are for Firefly

The Ukrainian operations were split into a separate company to satisfy the US Government so it doesn't matter now. No interaction between the two companies is allowed. Evidence in a paywalled article with interviews: https://russianspaceweb.com/protected/firefly.html#2022

[Dmitry_V_home]

I wonder how's Firefly's Ukraine R&D center in Dnipro doing... And how important they are for Firefly

The Ukrainian operations were split into a separate company to satisfy the US Government so it doesn't matter now. No interaction between the two companies is allowed. Evidence in a paywalled article with interviews: https://russianspaceweb.com/protected/firefly.html#2022

Back to the AR-1 for 1st stage!

[PM3]

I wonder how's Firefly's Ukraine R&D center in Dnipro doing... And how important they are for Firefly

The Ukrainian operations were split into a separate company to satisfy the US Government so it doesn't matter now. No interaction between the two companies is allowed. Evidence in a paywalled article with interviews: https://russianspaceweb.com/protected/firefly.html#2022

"No interaction allowed" would be extreme double standard, given that Northrop Grumman has much more interaction with Ukrainian space industry. But that article does not say that interaction was prohibited. And it mostly reports opinions and speculation on this topic, not hard facts.

Do you have another source for prohibited interaction?

[russianhalo117]

F2:

[CommieAme]

Any news on the rocket for Flight 3 or on Beta?

[Robotbeat]

Is Beta supposed to be reusable eventually? I thought I heard that in the every Day astronaut interview. (Separate from Gamma.)

[Conexion Espacial]

Rocket builder Firefly aiming for second launch attempt in May, raises $75 million

With the move complete, Markusic said the company now has “full access to our facilities to go back and launch.” Firefly will next transport its second Alpha rocket from its headquarters near Austin, Texas, to California, and aims to launch as soon as it can.


“We think it’ll take us about eight weeks from here to launch -- so in May is our target,” Markusic told CNBC.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/22/rocket-builder-firefly-resuming-launch-operations-raises-75-million.html?&qsearchterm=firefly

[Conexion Espacial]

Rocket builder Firefly aiming for second launch attempt in May, raises $75 million

With the move complete, Markusic said the company now has “full access to our facilities to go back and launch.” Firefly will next transport its second Alpha rocket from its headquarters near Austin, Texas, to California, and aims to launch as soon as it can.


“We think it’ll take us about eight weeks from here to launch -- so in May is our target,” Markusic told CNBC.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/22/rocket-builder-firefly-resuming-launch-operations-raises-75-million.html?&qsearchterm=firefly

https://twitter.com/Firefly_Space/status/1506303068643733508

[russianhalo117]

Is Beta supposed to be reusable eventually? I thought I heard that in the every Day astronaut interview. (Separate from Gamma.)

I haven't come across that information on the FAI website and user guides.

[TrevorMonty]

Is Beta supposed to be reusable eventually? I thought I heard that in the every Day astronaut interview. (Separate from Gamma.)

I haven't come across that information on the FAI website and user guides.

Designed to be reuseable from day one. Expect few losses in early recovery attempts.

They had started engine development for Beta but Ukraine war and change of ownership may have thrown spanner in works.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk