Author Topic: Firefly Space : Company and Development General Thread  (Read 485015 times)

Offline fthomassy

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Took this video last night. 300-sec burn of Lightening, according to CEO, is twice as long as any test to date. Perhaps Firefly will post better quality soon.

Edit: YouTube link added
« Last Edit: 03/16/2018 03:53 pm by fthomassy »
gyatm . . . Fern

Offline Cinder

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Would it be wrong to upload that video to youtube?
edit- thanks!  Was going to do it if you hadn't yet.
« Last Edit: 03/16/2018 05:53 pm by Cinder »
NEC ULTIMA SI PRIOR

Online Davidthefat

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You'd expect welds for a show piece to be at least electrochem cleaned or something. Anyways. The pictures posted by fthomassy are really telling of their engine propellant flow. Looks like from top to bottom, LOX inlet, LOX outlet, purge seal + bearing housing, RP outlet, RP inlet manifold, purge seal(?) + bearing, turbine inlet manifold (from the thrust chamber, which isn't connected), turbine outlet manifold to be routed to divergent section of the nozzle.

Despite it being a show piece, are the pictures posted here appropriate in terms of IP?
« Last Edit: 03/16/2018 04:25 pm by Davidthefat »

Offline fthomassy

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You'd expect welds for a show piece to be at least electrochem cleaned or something. Anyways. The pictures posted by fthomassy are really telling of their engine propellant flow. Looks like from top to bottom, LOX inlet, LOX outlet, purge seal + bearing housing, RP outlet, RP inlet manifold, purge seal(?) + bearing, turbine inlet manifold (from the thrust chamber, which isn't connected), turbine outlet manifold to be routed to divergent section of the nozzle.

Despite it being a show piece, are the pictures posted here appropriate in terms of IP?
LOX and RP1 lines are fully connected. The He purge/start line is not connected.

Edit: Regarding IP. Are you questioning Firefly’s intelligence or my judgement? If the latter I can only say I was told photos of SXSW displays were okay.
« Last Edit: 03/16/2018 04:57 pm by fthomassy »
gyatm . . . Fern

Offline fthomassy

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That nozzle extension looks to have a metallic  liner with some non-metallic outside surface.  Could you tell in person?
There were no parts that appeared to have liners. Perhaps I'm not following you but the bell was composite inside and out. Zoom in on the last picture. In the rather poor contrast (sorry about that) you can see a ring that seems to be the exit from turbine exhaust ring into the bell.
Quote
Their website says: The upper stage engine, “Lightning,” includes a turbine-exhaust cooled refractory metal high area ratio nozzle extension.

I expected the nozzle extension to be a niobium alloy like the Falcon 9.
Your guess is probably better than mine. Composite for show ... metal for real?
gyatm . . . Fern

Offline vaporcobra

Firefly will be posting regular updates to their blog from now on. http://www.fireflyspace.com/newblog

First new blog is from Markusic :)
Quote
On Thursday, March 15, 2018 we performed a long duration hotfire test of the “Lightning” thrust chamber assembly. The test duration was 296 seconds, which is twice as long as any engine test previously run at Firefly. Analysis of data and post-test inspection of hardware revealed no anomalies. A crowd of three hundred Firefly friends and family were on hand to witness this milestone.

Dr. Tom’s Firefly Blog Reignition - March 14th, 2018
We will begin using this blog to regularly report corporate and technical progress at Firefly. Here is a quick catch-up of where we stand today:

-We are focused on development of the Alpha Vehicle, which is designed to deliver one metric ton to LEO. We are engaged in developmental design, production and testing of Alpha components.
-We will soon be integrating these components into full stages and performing integrated stage tests on our new vertical test stand (Test Stand 2 (TS-2)).
-We intend to perform our first orbital flight during the third quarter of 2019.
« Last Edit: 03/17/2018 12:03 am by vaporcobra »

First new blog is from Markusic :)
Quote
-We intend to perform our first orbital flight during the third quarter of 2019.

Wow, that was unexpected. All they have to do is complete a brand new launch vehicle in a year and a half! Still, considering they have already begun duration engine tests, it seems like a somewhat reasonable timetable.
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Offline fthomassy

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Latest blog.
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Alpha Payload User's Guide
March 19th, 2018

Today we have released the Alpha Payload User’s Guide, available on our downloads page. This document provides customers with details on vehicle performance and interface information.
User guide attached. Enjoy! :)
gyatm . . . Fern

Online CameronD

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Latest blog.
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Alpha Payload User's Guide
March 19th, 2018

Today we have released the Alpha Payload User’s Guide, available on our downloads page. This document provides customers with details on vehicle performance and interface information.
User guide attached. Enjoy! :)

Interesting!  Has it been confirmed yet where they will be launching from??

With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline fthomassy

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User guide attached. Enjoy! :)
Interesting!  Has it been confirmed yet where they will be launching from??
Not confirmed by their own admission in section 6.3 of the user guide.
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Firefly is currently in the process of securing a site at Vandenberg Air Force Base (VAFB), as this location
is expected to support the initial test flights of Alpha and a substantial number of future Customers;
This process is currently underway with documentation submitted to Air Force Space Command and
VAFB 30th Space Wing. Vandenberg Air Force Base (VAFB) is the launch site considered to be Firefly’s
Primary domestic site.
So VAFB is the plan but no site confirmed.
gyatm . . . Fern

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Staring at Firefly Aerospace’s hot rocket-engine flames in a Texas pasture
“Hopefully you’ll be able to look back and say, ‘Hey, I knew those guys when they were nobody.’”

by Nathan Mattise - Mar 17, 2018 5:30pm GMT

CEDAR PARK, Texas—"Last time you came out here, it was just a pile of dirt," Firefly Aerospace CEO and rocket scientist Tom Markusic tells me. I looked it up afterwards—he's not lying.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/03/staring-at-firefly-aerospaces-hot-rocket-engine-flames-in-a-texas-pasture/

Offline ringsider

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Really nice article, some great background images.

June 2019 launch (15 months...) seems optimistic but actually they might just do it.

Offline fthomassy

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A new blog post is up.
http://www.fireflyspace.com/newblog/riding-carbon-water-balloons-to-space

Interesting last line in the post (bold mine) ...
Quote
...  The second picture above shows Firefly composite production technicians fabricating the domes of the tanks that will be used on our first fully integrated stage tests in June 2018.
« Last Edit: 03/30/2018 06:20 pm by fthomassy »
gyatm . . . Fern

Offline john smith 19

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Latest blog.
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Alpha Payload User's Guide
March 19th, 2018

Today we have released the Alpha Payload User’s Guide, available on our downloads page. This document provides customers with details on vehicle performance and interface information.
User guide attached. Enjoy! :)
Note. On launch Alpha's tank width will make it the SoA with regard to flight weight main CFRP tanks, beyond Rocket Labs tanks.
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 2027?. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Online Robotbeat

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Latest blog.
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Alpha Payload User's Guide
March 19th, 2018

Today we have released the Alpha Payload User’s Guide, available on our downloads page. This document provides customers with details on vehicle performance and interface information.
User guide attached. Enjoy! :)
Note. On launch Alpha's tank width will make it the SoA with regard to flight weight main CFRP tanks, beyond Rocket Labs tanks.
Only on launch. The 5.5m carbon fiber SLS tank demo (by NASA, Boeing, and Janicki) put a far larger tank through a full range of cryogenic and load testing. As far as full test suites go, that SLS tank demo still wins.

And in some ways (i.e. fundamental understanding), those ground tests are superior as they provide better data than flight does. Fundamentally, you can test just about everything about flight on the ground with these tanks.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline imprezive

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Latest blog.
Quote
Alpha Payload User's Guide
March 19th, 2018

Today we have released the Alpha Payload User’s Guide, available on our downloads page. This document provides customers with details on vehicle performance and interface information.
User guide attached. Enjoy! :)
Note. On launch Alpha's tank width will make it the SoA with regard to flight weight main CFRP tanks, beyond Rocket Labs tanks.
Only on launch. The 5.5m carbon fiber SLS tank demo (by NASA, Boeing, and Janicki) put a far larger tank through a full range of cryogenic and load testing. As far as full test suites go, that SLS tank demo still wins.

And in some ways (i.e. fundamental understanding), those ground tests are superior as they provide better data than flight does. Fundamentally, you can test just about everything about flight on the ground with these tanks.

SLS doesn’t use carbon tanks AFAIK. Are you thinking about XS-1?

Offline e of pi

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SLS doesn’t use carbon tanks AFAIK. Are you thinking about XS-1?
NASA did a subscale 5.5m tank for composites procesing demonstrations a few years ago. More information here on the 5.5m version and also some pictures and information here on the earlier 2.4m demo unit. Note that the vendor Boeing worked with (Janicki Industries of Washington state) has also been SpaceX's subcontractor for the BFR composite tanks, and from the operations described in their filings for the new Port of LA factory Janikcki may also supply the flight tanks for BFR. So there's a direct line here from a NASA/Boeing proof of concept enabling SpaceX's BFR.
« Last Edit: 04/02/2018 03:15 pm by e of pi »

Offline john smith 19

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And in some ways (i.e. fundamental understanding), those ground tests are superior as they provide better data than flight does. Fundamentally, you can test just about everything about flight on the ground with these tanks.
Except the flight itself.

That's when you discover wheather or not your simulation of the flight loads is accurate or not, and wheather they do, or do not interact.

It's the difference between asking a software developer "Are you a good developer?" and putting them in a room with a live PC, a set of tools and a job spec and telling them "We'll be back in 4 hours. It runs, you've got the job." :)

I wish Firefly the very best of luck.

MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 2027?. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline imprezive

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SLS doesn’t use carbon tanks AFAIK. Are you thinking about XS-1?
NASA did a subscale 5.5m tank for composites procesing demonstrations a few years ago. More information here on the 5.5m version and also some pictures and information here on the earlier 2.4m demo unit. Note that the vendor Boeing worked with (Janicki Industries of Washington state) has also been SpaceX's subcontractor for the BFR composite tanks, and from the operations described in their filings for the new Port of LA factory Janikcki may also supply the flight tanks for BFR. So there's a direct line here from a NASA/Boeing proof of concept enabling SpaceX's BFR.

Cool! Thanks for info. 🙂

Online docmordrid

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>
Note that the vendor Boeing worked with (Janicki Industries of Washington state) has also been SpaceX's subcontractor for the BFR composite tanks, and from the operations described in their filings for the new Port of LA factory Janikcki may also supply the flight tanks for BFR. So there's a direct line here from a NASA/Boeing proof of concept enabling SpaceX's BFR.

Nit: via a Teslarati report, SpaceX's new 9m CF tooling is from Ascent Aerospace Coast Composites.
« Last Edit: 04/12/2018 01:45 pm by docmordrid »
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