Author Topic: Firefly Space : Company and Development General Thread  (Read 485034 times)

Offline PM3

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Firefly and Skyrora are closely related companies - so no surprise if they share not only investors but also development resources. We have one CLPS contractor (Ben Brockert of Masten Space, I assume "Ben" here in the forum) throwing dirt at another CLPS contractor here. Not sure what to make of that.

As already mentioned, Snopes is just re-publishing years-old allegations. So far not a single first-tier news outlet has copied them. Which makes me somehwat skeptical about the relevance of that old stuff.
"Never, never be afraid of the truth." -- Jim Bridenstine

Offline Ben

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I worked at Masten ten years ago. I definitely don't represent them in any way, and am not involved in CLPS. Would be great to see any of these companies succeed; I think the low end of medium lift that Firefly is targeting is an interesting place to be in the market.

I don't know how you define news tiers, but International Business Times ( https://www.ibtimes.com/space-startup-firefly-aerospace-linked-fake-dating-sites-affairdating-buddygays-2922175 ), The Verge ( https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/12/21134844/firefly-aerospace-founders-max-polyakov-ceo-dating-site-sham ), Ars Technica ( https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/02/rocket-report-demo-2-launch-this-spring-concerns-about-fireflys-backer/ ) all covered it. It's a bit of an 'inside baseball' story. It would be a pretty boring forum if people only posted NPR articles.

Offline novak

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Where did i say a complete rocket?? I did not claim that.
Sources are per the press info released by said companies and IR filings. It has a very similar arrangement to Antares for initial production.

Perhaps I misunderstood. To me, building stages means building a rocket.  I guess if not rocket stages, I'm not sure what you are implying will be/currently is being built in Ukraine.  If you have a link maybe I'd understand better.



Kerolox tap-off?

That is quite novel, and much more interesting than the usual GG system.

It offers a potentially lighter and simpler system.  The joker (from the J-2S work) was ducting the hot, fuel rich combustion gas. With kero you're looking at possible clogging with the unburned fuel if its slowed down too much or gets too cold.

Not necessarily an issue for a single use engine, provided it's not test fired too many times to clog it up. AS it's a "full flow" engine it should offer a few more secs Isp at the same chamber pressure.  Important for a low mass system.

It is certainly interesting- and I would suggest not based primarily on some legacy engines, as to my knowledge no one has built kerolox tapoff engines before.  Further evidence that it is at least partially a new design here, for instance:
https://www.sprsa.org/sites/default/files/presentations/Salwan-Firefly%20Aerospace%20-Cygnus%20Secondary%20and%20Hosted%20Payload%20Opportunities-Not%20for%20Website.pdf

Quote
Proprietary & patented ”crossfire” injector –industry leading performance, cost & simplicity

The tapoff cycle is generally considered to be open, not closed- not all propellants are exhausted at high temperature and pressure (I assume that's what you meant by full flow?).  It is a simplification and weight reduction though. 

And I would agree that power fade is a potential concern, but I'm not convinced that it is more of an issue than you'd have on a GG engine (where you also duct hot, fuel rich gas to the turbine).
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Offline spacevogel

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Firefly and Skyrora are closely related companies - so no surprise if they share not only investors but also development resources.
Sure, fine. But why hide the connection then and try to wipe all stuff that might reveal it?

I remember someone in this thread once posted a screenshot of Linkedin page of someone from Noosphere, they had both Firefly and Skyrora listed iirc. Literally right after that the mentions were removed from that page. Why?
Also, seeing now that this post has since been deleted from the thread. (And it was up for a long time, I looked it up on several occasions). Too bad i didn't save it back then. Only this post is left.

This all just seems very strange. Especially since both Polyakov, Markusic and Levykin have mentioned in interviews the involvement with Skyrora, lol.


Offline TrevorMonty

The attempt at a rebuttal to the Snopes story about Firefly being funded by dating site scams is deeply weird. https://noosphereventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Statement.pdf
Does it really matter where money comes from.

Offline russianhalo117

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Where did i say a complete rocket?? I did not claim that.
Sources are per the press info released by said companies and IR filings. It has a very similar arrangement to Antares for initial production.

Perhaps I misunderstood. To me, building stages means building a rocket.  I guess if not rocket stages, I'm not sure what you are implying will be/currently is being built in Ukraine.  If you have a link maybe I'd understand better.



Kerolox tap-off?

That is quite novel, and much more interesting than the usual GG system.

It offers a potentially lighter and simpler system.  The joker (from the J-2S work) was ducting the hot, fuel rich combustion gas. With kero you're looking at possible clogging with the unburned fuel if its slowed down too much or gets too cold.

Not necessarily an issue for a single use engine, provided it's not test fired too many times to clog it up. AS it's a "full flow" engine it should offer a few more secs Isp at the same chamber pressure.  Important for a low mass system.

It is certainly interesting- and I would suggest not based primarily on some legacy engines, as to my knowledge no one has built kerolox tapoff engines before.  Further evidence that it is at least partially a new design here, for instance:
https://www.sprsa.org/sites/default/files/presentations/Salwan-Firefly%20Aerospace%20-Cygnus%20Secondary%20and%20Hosted%20Payload%20Opportunities-Not%20for%20Website.pdf

Quote
Proprietary & patented ”crossfire” injector –industry leading performance, cost & simplicity

The tapoff cycle is generally considered to be open, not closed- not all propellants are exhausted at high temperature and pressure (I assume that's what you meant by full flow?).  It is a simplification and weight reduction though. 

And I would agree that power fade is a potential concern, but I'm not convinced that it is more of an issue than you'd have on a GG engine (where you also duct hot, fuel rich gas to the turbine).

The base structure ie tanks and downcomer for initial serials.

Some ARH presser info. Doesn't go into full details. Other info has several components derived from Bantam family.

https://firefly.com/aerojet-rocketdyne-and-firefly-aerospace-to-provide-flexible-access-to-space/

Offline butters

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The attempt at a rebuttal to the Snopes story about Firefly being funded by dating site scams is deeply weird. https://noosphereventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Statement.pdf
Does it really matter where money comes from.

Not as long as the "potential FTC violations" don't become "FTC violations" and disrupt Noosphere's income streams. The political climate has shifted quite a bit over the past 10 years, and any media-tech business doing shady things with recurring subscription payments or personally-identifiable information has a big target on its back now that the public has fallen out of love with Silicon Valley. Dating services will be subject to increased regulatory scrutiny. It's a matter of when, not if.

But if Firefly delivers on their roadmap and begins to look like one of the few likely survivors of the great Cambrian Explosion of smallsat launch ventures, then they should be able to attract alternative sources of capital. There seems to be an almost inexhaustible supply of capital eager to buy into any smallsat launcher that works. If they can make their rocket work, they stand a good chance of making their business work, with or without Polyakov.

Offline novak

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The base structure ie tanks and downcomer for initial serials.

Some ARH presser info. Doesn't go into full details. Other info has several components derived from Bantam family.

https://firefly.com/aerojet-rocketdyne-and-firefly-aerospace-to-provide-flexible-access-to-space/

I still don't know where you're getting the idea the the tanks are produced in Ukraine.  And I think if you read the article you posted you'd conclude that firefly primarily develops its own engines (with some level of cooperation on one engine from AJR).  I see a lot of statements made with no room for doubt, and I'm not certain they are all true.
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novak

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1237464704785592320

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Orbital debris mitigation is crucial for the future of the Low Earth Orbit (LEO) economy. Firefly is proud to be launching the Spinnaker 3 drag sail prototype on the first flight of our Firefly Alpha launch vehicle.   https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3887/1   #Firefly #MakingSpaceForEveryone

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1237799341286400002

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Today we completed assembly of our structural test stand (TS4).  TS4 allows us to apply flight-like loads to fully fueled stages to verify that our structural systems will succeed in flight.

Edit to add:

https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1237799344847421441

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Firefly’s ability to design, construct and operate our own large-scale test stands is something that sets us apart from other new entrants in the small satellite launch industry. #Firefly #MakingSpaceForEveryone

Stand is certainly impressive, but bold claim that other entrants couldn’t do it
« Last Edit: 03/11/2020 05:26 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Quote
Firefly targets summer launch, unveils plans for lunar delivery service
Company pressing ahead despite COVID-19 pandemic.

ERIC BERGER - 3/24/2020, 7:35 PM

NASA's Artemis plan to return humans to the surface of the Moon has gotten the lion's share of public attention over the last year, but the space agency's innovative program to deliver material to the surface of the Moon has arguably spurred more commercial activity.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03/firefly-outlines-plans-to-expand-beyond-small-satellite-launch/

Images of Firefly’s Genesis moon lander attached
« Last Edit: 03/24/2020 07:04 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline TrevorMonty

The OTV looks like their equivalent of RL Photon kickstage/satellite bus. Just like RL, Firefly want to also build payloads for their LVs.

Offline Ben

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I hope that plume render annoyed Markusic as much as it does me. That is an overexpanded nozzle in dense atmosphere, which the moon, by most accounts, is significantly lacking.

Online CameronD

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I hope that plume render annoyed Markusic as much as it does me. That is an overexpanded nozzle in dense atmosphere, which the moon, by most accounts, is significantly lacking.

Rocket Science?.. meet Graphic Artist.  :)
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Online gongora

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FCC permit application for June 23 launch: File Number: 0617-EX-ST-2020 Call Sign: WQ9XJE

Offline PM3

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FCC permit application for June 23 launch: File Number: 0617-EX-ST-2020 Call Sign: WQ9XJE

I wonder if there is a typo in the "operation end date". Firefly was talking of a launch "towards fall", and isn't a launch period of just 1-2 days very unusual? Or could this just be a rehearsal for filing FCC requests?
"Never, never be afraid of the truth." -- Jim Bridenstine

Offline russianhalo117

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FCC permit application for June 23 launch: File Number: 0617-EX-ST-2020 Call Sign: WQ9XJE

I wonder if there is a typo in the "operation end date". Firefly was talking of a launch "towards fall", and isn't a launch period of just 1-2 days very unusual? Or could this just be a rehearsal for filing FCC requests?
Could be an LVOS with pad tests or is the initial start date and will be amended.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1250148539147132933

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During these challenging times, Firefly continues to make substantial daily progress on the path to Alpha first flight this summer. Qualification testing of the world’s simplest high-performance rocket engine (“Reaver”) is progressing well. Crank it up!
« Last Edit: 04/14/2020 07:54 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Online xyv

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OK,

When we left off we were up to full stage 1 testing, but a "small" fire broke out.  Now we are back in qualification test.  Did I miss something or was the fire a bit more severe that a leak?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1250490418476744704

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.@Firefly_Space completed work on its mission control center at Vandenberg's launchpad SLC-2 in California as the company prepares for the first launch of its Alpha rocket later this year.

 

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