Wouldn't Beta with 8000kg to LEO be using a pair of AR1 engines?
AR1 engines on Firefly Beta?Aerojet Rocketdyne and Firefly Aerospace to Provide Flexible Access to Space
Quote from: gongora on 10/19/2019 01:21 amWouldn't Beta with 8000kg to LEO be using a pair of AR1 engines?An AR-1 outperforms the RD-181(thrust wise at least) in Antares and that has 8,000 kg to LEO. You would think with a liquid upper stage and given that the Antares first stage was built for smaller less powerful NK-33 engines, a dual AR-1 vehicle (potentially with reavers in addition) would outperform 8,000 kg. Getting 8000 kg out of just one AR-1 (490,000 lbf thrust compared to 864,000 lbf on Antares) might just come down to the liquid upper stage and composite construction. That said, 4 reavers and 1 AR-1 would have thrust of ~650,000 lbf (75% of Antares).
Quote from: ncb1397 on 10/19/2019 01:37 amQuote from: gongora on 10/19/2019 01:21 amWouldn't Beta with 8000kg to LEO be using a pair of AR1 engines?An AR-1 outperforms the RD-181(thrust wise at least) in Antares and that has 8,000 kg to LEO. You would think with a liquid upper stage and given that the Antares first stage was built for smaller less powerful NK-33 engines, a dual AR-1 vehicle (potentially with reavers in addition) would outperform 8,000 kg. Getting 8000 kg out of just one AR-1 (490,000 lbf thrust compared to 864,000 lbf on Antares) might just come down to the liquid upper stage and composite construction. That said, 4 reavers and 1 AR-1 would have thrust of ~650,000 lbf (75% of Antares).Lot depends on US Antares uses SRM so far from optional. Beta could use RL10 or the Alpha Lightning 1 (15klbs).
Quote from: TrevorMonty on 10/19/2019 04:42 amQuote from: ncb1397 on 10/19/2019 01:37 amQuote from: gongora on 10/19/2019 01:21 amWouldn't Beta with 8000kg to LEO be using a pair of AR1 engines?An AR-1 outperforms the RD-181(thrust wise at least) in Antares and that has 8,000 kg to LEO. You would think with a liquid upper stage and given that the Antares first stage was built for smaller less powerful NK-33 engines, a dual AR-1 vehicle (potentially with reavers in addition) would outperform 8,000 kg. Getting 8000 kg out of just one AR-1 (490,000 lbf thrust compared to 864,000 lbf on Antares) might just come down to the liquid upper stage and composite construction. That said, 4 reavers and 1 AR-1 would have thrust of ~650,000 lbf (75% of Antares).Lot depends on US Antares uses SRM so far from optional. Beta could use RL10 or the Alpha Lightning 1 (15klbs).I haven't checked the numbers recently. Would a vacuum optimized Reaver be to powerful an upper stage engine for a rocket this size?
Firefly will partner with anyone, at any time, for any reason.
Quote from: QuantumG on 10/21/2019 01:21 amFirefly will partner with anyone, at any time, for any reason.I think your right, they use to be all about talking about SpaceX, I would have assumed they tried go for a Merlin. Made a Kestrel Clone.
Tom Markusic of Firefly Aerospace giving an update on Alpha development. Second stage of vehicle qualified, now testing first stage four-engine config; mid-November first-stage qual tests. #IAC2019
Markusic: first launch of Alpha in 1st quarter of 2020, likely February or March. #IAC2019
Markusic: market analysis determined sweet spot of market for Beta was > 5 metric tons; original Beta design (Alpha triple-core) only got to 4 metric tons, hence design change to single-stick rocket with AR1. #IAC2019
Jim Maser, Aerojet Rocketdyne: in midst of assembling first “test-ready” AR1 engine, to be done in first half 2020. Timing of completion depends on Firefly’s needs.Markusic: once Alpha is flying, expect to have Beta flying in 2-3 years. #IAC2019
QuoteWatt said Beta has been redesigned from a triple-core rocket, akin to SpaceX’s Falcon Heavy, to a single core in order to increase how much it can lift. That rocket, featuring a reusable first stage, will be able to lift 8,000 kilograms to LEO, he said.
Watt said Beta has been redesigned from a triple-core rocket, akin to SpaceX’s Falcon Heavy, to a single core in order to increase how much it can lift. That rocket, featuring a reusable first stage, will be able to lift 8,000 kilograms to LEO, he said.
Quote Markusic: market analysis determined sweet spot of market for Beta was > 5 metric tons; original Beta design (Alpha triple-core) only got to 4 metric tons, hence design change to single-stick rocket with AR1. #IAC2019
In order to execute commercial launches of the Alpha launch vehicle, which will begin in 2020, we are moving from experimental one-time production to mass production, and in connection with that we ask you to consider the possibility of producing the following: - combustion chambers in an amount of 100 pcs (Appendix 1);- automatic units in a total amount of 500 pcs (5 items 100 pcs each) (Appendix 2);- turbopumps in an amount of 40 pcs (Appendix 3).According to the results of the consideration of technical documentation, please inform the cost of manufacturing of the specified units and components, as well as the timeframe of the production work. In addition to the above we would like to inform you about our interest in working with the Korean Aerospace Research Institute (KARI). Our company has signed a contract to develop an innovative engine for the new SSaL small-lift launch vehicle. According to the signed memorandum, within the framework of several contracts, we plan to develop, manufacture and test the second stage of this rocket in Ukraine by 2023.In this regard, we would like to invite Yuzhmash to cooperate in this project. We propose organizing a working meeting to discuss future cooperation with KARI regarding manufacturing and testing. In order to coordinate our future work, creation of a working group with the participation of KARI is needed. We suggest holding a meeting to discuss work with KARI in the second half of December 2019.
A bit more news from Ukrainian side of Firefly activities. Firefly wants to order stuff from Yuzhmash. Their letter to Yuzhmash was posted recently. Post mentions that Yuzhmash specialists estimate this deal to be worth around $15 million. Dunno about the credibility of that number, but that might be a really nice deal for Yuzhmash and would help to cover their debts. No decision made public yet, as far as I'm aware. First few paragraphs are of no interest, but here is what they want and propose: QuoteIn order to execute commercial launches of the Alpha launch vehicle, which will begin in 2020, we are moving from experimental one-time production to mass production, and in connection with that we ask you to consider the possibility of producing the following: - combustion chambers in an amount of 100 pcs (Appendix 1);- automatic units in a total amount of 500 pcs (5 items 100 pcs each) (Appendix 2);- turbopumps in an amount of 40 pcs (Appendix 3).According to the results of the consideration of technical documentation, please inform the cost of manufacturing of the specified units and components, as well as the timeframe of the production work. In addition to the above we would like to inform you about our interest in working with the Korean Aerospace Research Institute (KARI). Our company has signed a contract to develop an innovative engine for the new SSaL small-lift launch vehicle. According to the signed memorandum, within the framework of several contracts, we plan to develop, manufacture and test the second stage of this rocket in Ukraine by 2023.In this regard, we would like to invite Yuzhmash to cooperate in this project. We propose organizing a working meeting to discuss future cooperation with KARI regarding manufacturing and testing. In order to coordinate our future work, creation of a working group with the participation of KARI is needed. We suggest holding a meeting to discuss work with KARI in the second half of December 2019.
Link gives me an error 404 message. May have been deleted because its on the forum now and NSF is popular.
The Firefly Fabrication Team has been building non-stop at our 200-acre Texas test site. We have 4 active test stands and we are wrapping up construction of Building 4, our new 25,000 sq ft machine shop!
Test Stand 4 is Firefly’s structural test stand. We apply compressive and torsional loads to structures to verify our analytic models. The Stage 1 Interstage visited TS-4 today and successfully exceeded qualification test loads!
