Author Topic: Firefly Space : Company and Development General Thread  (Read 485018 times)

Offline lrk

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And this is only a single preburner.
I mean it's a tap-off cycle Reaver right; no preburner?
Yes, no preburner. And as its a tapoff cycle, behaviour of the turbopump and MCC are coupled (as the pump is driven by the gas tapped off the MCC, and the gas pressure in the MCC is based on propellants delivered, and propellants delivered is based on the pump driven by the tapoff gas...) so any delays in the control loop monitoring MCC pressure and driving the propellant valves can directly drive oscillations in the MCC and pump (and visible tapoff exhaust).
Isn't that the case in any gas-generator or staged combustion cycle engine too?  A gas generator/preburner is typically powered by fuel from the pump it is driving.

Offline Robert_the_Doll

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https://twitter.com/Firefly_Space/status/1704548522337468659

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Firefly brings the heat in @TheSlowMoGuys
 latest video! There's no doubt that a hot fire is an amazing sight on its own, but now we get to see our Reaver engine in a whole new light. See the full video here:

Offline rakaydos

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Yes, that is the current discussion.

I don't know enough about the differences between tapoff and a basic turbopump, but I'm pretty sure 2 turbopumps and combustion chamber back pressure is more complicated- and would generate even more erratic transients during startup.

Offline john smith 19

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Yes, that is the current discussion.

I don't know enough about the differences between tapoff and a basic turbopump, but I'm pretty sure 2 turbopumps and combustion chamber back pressure is more complicated- and would generate even more erratic transients during startup.
They're all turbopumps.

The question is what drives them.

GG systems can operate at different O/F (usually optimised to burn cooler) ratios and differenct injector designs from the MCC.

GT systems usually go for tap off near the edges IE the walls.

Note that J-2S was (in one version at least) a GT system and Rocketdyne got that working in the late 60's.

They also found out how to eliminate the cartridge start process, opening the way to unlimited engine starts.

In principal such systems can be adapted to run (reasonably) easily on any pair of cryogenic propellants and of course Blue got it running with Kerolox.

The benefits of GT systems are all the propellant goes through the MCC (like SC) but can be made to operate at much lower pressures (although unlike the expander you can crank that pressure as high as you want). It also drives the turbines with a much more controlled gas mixture EG by diluting it with additional fuel to lower operating temperatures.

It's the classic trade off. More complex  (in principle) to design up front than a GG, significantly better performance both for Isp and T/W.

But you take the cost hit once, and every vehicle you build inherits the improved performance.

Your choice.
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https://www.statesman.com/story/business/technology/2023/09/22/firefly-ceo-says-commercialization-of-space-could-come-soon-after-successful-space-force-mission/70904403007/

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...Weber said the Blue Ghost lunar lander is expected to complete its first mission next fall, which will involve orbiting and touching down on the moon's surface. Elytra will also fly in the first half of next year.
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For someone looking back on this thread and confused about it, here is the Victus Nox thread, where everyone reacts to Firefly's first totally successful flight. https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=58176.msg2525171#msg2525171

So, what's next for Alpha? It looks like they have another flight in November, and then their next flight isn't until June?
Think we'll see more contracts coming Alpha's way now that it's put payload into a stable orbit? I suppose NSSL Phase 3 is on the horizon...
« Last Edit: 09/23/2023 03:34 am by JEF_300 »
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Offline trimeta

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NSSL Phase 3 Lane 1 is mostly aimed at medium-lift launch vehicles, isn't it? MLV will certainly be competing for those launches once it's flown, but Firefly is targeting its first flight in 2025, and I believe that unlike NSSL Lane 2, to compete in NSSL Lane 1 your vehicle needs to actually have flown, it's not enough to simply have a paper plan. (Although perhaps you could argue that with Lane 2, the paper plan is enough for pre-qualification, the rocket still needs to fly to win launches. While with Lane 1, there's no pre-qualification, launching is the qualification.)

NSSL Phase 3 Lane 1 is mostly aimed at medium-lift launch vehicles, isn't it? MLV will certainly be competing for those launches once it's flown, but Firefly is targeting its first flight in 2025, and I believe that unlike NSSL Lane 2, to compete in NSSL Lane 1 your vehicle needs to actually have flown, it's not enough to simply have a paper plan. (Although perhaps you could argue that with Lane 2, the paper plan is enough for pre-qualification, the rocket still needs to fly to win launches. While with Lane 1, there's no pre-qualification, launching is the qualification.)

I thought they had a lane that could take Alpha sized LVs?

The CEO actually mentioned MLV and Lane 1 in a CNBC article I saw today. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/21/investing-in-space-fireflys-space-force-launch-represents-key-moment.html

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Weber declared MLV is “designed for” the NSSL competition’s newly-created “Lane 1.” And, more importantly, Weber said his company is on schedule to ship its contribution for MLV to Northrop by the end of 2024. In full, the companies want to launch the inaugural MLV in about two years, to earn the military’s qualification “in the earliest window that we can possibly on ramp to Lane 1.”
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Offline trimeta

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NASA has the Venture-Class Acquisition of Dedicated and Rideshare (VADR) launch services program, which includes Firefly Alpha among its qualified vehicles, and I know that years ago the NRO awarded Rocket Lab some launches under their Rapid Acquisition of a Small Rocket (RASR) program. There's also the Space Force's Orbital Services Program (OSP)-4, which may be a more general Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) deal that's analogous to NASA's VADR.

I guess this article on the revised draft for NSSL Phase 3 says "This second draft of the RFP has a reduced minimum lift capability of 1,000 kg to a LEO reference orbit, with the ability to carry up to 6,800 kg over a series of missions to complete a contract," but between the existence of other programs to target the small-lift space and Firefly's own comments pointing to MLV being their Lane 1 offering (you'd think if they'd specifically lobbied to have the wording changed to enable Alpha, they'd be boasting about that), I'm not sure if Alpha-sized payloads are really on the table. Although if they were, Firefly would be the shoe-in to get them, ABL's RS1 is a bit behind at this point and Relativity's Terran 1 isn't flying anymore.

Blue Ghost structure is complete.

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Offline DeimosDream

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Firefly Alpha is a little too small for Lane 1. The lane 1 reference orbit is 926km circular, but Alpha can only lift 1-ton to ~300km. I think ABL's RS1 is just big enough to make the cut, but bidding 7x RS1s vs 1x MLV/Neutron/F9-RTLS may be a tough sell.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/rocketlab/status/1711853481999659387

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Our space software team is one step closer to a landing on the Moon for @Firefly_Space's 2nd Blue Ghost mission!

Our team is supporting Firefly’s transfer vehicle and lunar lander with flight software and guidance, navigation, and control (GNC) to help the mission deliver @NASA payloads to lunar orbit and the far side of the Moon in 2026.

Congratulations to the full team at Firefly and Rocket Lab on successfully completing the program’s preliminary design review (PDR).

Online zubenelgenubi

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Are these also delayed into 2024?
Firefly:
1125-EX-ST-2023  Tantrum mission NET Oct
1127-EX-ST-2023  FANTM Ride mission NET Nov

Added to FANTM Ride here:
https://nextspaceflight.com/launches/details/7194
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SUV Demonstration Mission
Launch Time
NET January, 2024

And what about this?
NET December 2023 NET October 2022 TBD 2023 - Spaceflight Inc. multi satellite launch - Firefly Alpha - Vandenberg SLC-2W

Changes on May 20th, 2022
Changes on May 25th, 2022
Changes on June 3rd, 2022
Changes on December 23rd, 2022
https://nextspaceflight.com/launches/details/6866 [page not found]
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Spaceflight Industries Rideshare
Launch Time
NET October, 2022
https://nextspaceflight.com/launches/details/6866 [page not found]
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Spaceflight Industries Rideshare
Launch Time
NET December, 2023
= TBD 2023 in NextSF jargon
« Last Edit: 10/13/2023 04:52 am by zubenelgenubi »
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Online zubenelgenubi

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Cross-post:
Scheduled:
Date - Satellite(s) - Rocket - Launch Site - Time (UTC)

2024
NET November 2023  March - VCLS (VADR) Demo-2FB/ELaNa 43: CatSat, KUbe-Sat-1, MESAT1, R5-S4, R5-S2-2.0, REAL, Serenity (3), SOC-i, TechEdSat-11 (TES-11) - Firefly Alpha (FLTA004) - Vandenberg SLC-2W (or NLT July)

NET March - OTB 2 (Orbital Test Bed-2) - Firefly Alpha - Vandenberg SLC-2W

NET March - EOS SAR 1 - Firefly Alpha - Vandenberg SLC-2W

NET October 2023  Q1 - Tantrum - Firefly Alpha - Vandenberg SLC-2W

Q1 - iSIM-SAT - Firefly Alpha - Vandenberg SLC-2W / Canaveral SLC-20

Q2 - TBD - Firefly Beta - Canaveral SLC-20

NET    January   Q2 - SUV demo mission, FANTM Ride - Firefly Alpha (FLTA005?) - Vandenberg SLC-2W

NET  December 2023  Q2 - Spaceflight Inc. multi satellite launch - Firefly Alpha - Vandenberg SLC-2W

Q4 - TBD - Firefly Beta - Vandenberg SLC-2E

TBD - Firefly Alpha - Lockheed Martin mission - Firefly Alpha - TBD
TBD - TBD - Firefly Alpha - Canaveral SLC-20
TBD - TBD - Firefly Alpha - Canaveral SLC-20

Changes on October 13th
« Last Edit: 10/19/2023 07:10 pm by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline Steven Pietrobon

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https://www.spaceconnectonline.com.au/launch/6043-fleet-s-tech-to-hunt-moon-minerals-set-for-2026-launch

Fleet’s tech to hunt moon minerals set for 2026 launch
10 November 2023

Geophysical device SPIDER – Seismic Payload for Interplanetary Discovery, Exploration and Research – will be attached to Firefly’s Blue Ghost lunar lander in 2026.
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https://www.spaceconnectonline.com.au/launch/6043-fleet-s-tech-to-hunt-moon-minerals-set-for-2026-launch

Fleet’s tech to hunt moon minerals set for 2026 launch
10 November 2023

Geophysical device SPIDER – Seismic Payload for Interplanetary Discovery, Exploration and Research – will be attached to Firefly’s Blue Ghost lunar lander in 2026.

Like you wish the surface of the Moon was that flat and hard.
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Don't know why this didn't get cross-posted here yet:
https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1720455188949991676

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Our Miranda dev engine is officially on the test stand. This hardworking team has worked diligently to achieve this milestone and is making the final preparations for the first hot fire.

Once qualified, 7 Miranda engines - capable of producing 1.6 million pounds of thrust - will power the first stage of Antares 330 and the medium launch vehicle we're co-developing with @northropgrumman.
Stay tuned as we get ready to light this engine up!
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1724527580857139712

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Behind the scenes, our team is hard at work developing hardware for Elytra's first on-orbit mission in 2024. More than just a rendering, We're building Elytra using many of the same components from our rockets and lunar landers, including the carbon composite structures and propulsion systems. Learn more about this upcoming mission here:

https://fireflyspace.com/missions/elytra-mission-1/

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1724944359378788405

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Just two months after our VICTUS NOX launch, the Firefly crew has completed stage integration and rolled Alpha out to the pad. Stay tuned for more info about flight 4!

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/firefly_space/status/1727085161425011109

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Congrats to our Elytra team on another milestone! We recently completed structural environmental testing on the qualification model. This test validates the spacecraft, with @xtenti's FANTM-RiDE mass simulator attached, can handle the loads experienced during launch. Stay tuned for more insights as we prepare for our first on-orbit Elytra mission:

https://fireflyspace.com/missions/elytra-mission-1/
« Last Edit: 11/21/2023 09:05 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

 

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