Author Topic: Firefly Space : Company and Development General Thread  (Read 485022 times)

Offline trimeta

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I wonder if the stated 16 mT payload capacity is with first-stage reuse or not. The page says things like "at a comparable cost per kilogram to existing reusable rockets" and "will evolve into a reusable vehicle," but that doesn't tell us that the 16 kT number in particular is what they envision achieving with reuse.

Admittedly, it took Rocket Lab a while to come clean about the amount of reuse they were assuming with different stated payload levels, too.

Offline TrevorMonty

Given its ELV to start 16mt is likely to be expendable. What isn't clear is if that is with solid Castor US which is version 1.0 or liquid US which is most likely to on RLV. Current Antares is 8mt with booster having 864klbs of thrust, MLV booster is 1600klbs so almost twice thrust. Using same Castor US should be >10mt but not 16mt.

Using Castor on first version shortens development time allowing NG to use it for Cygnus sooner.

Edited. Getting GEM and Castor mixed up.
« Last Edit: 06/09/2023 10:49 pm by TrevorMonty »

Offline trimeta

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Given its ELV to start 16mt is likely to be expendable. What isn't clear is if that is with solid Castor US which is version 1.0 or liquid US which is most likely to on RLV. Current Antares is 8mt with booster having 864klbs of thrust, MLV booster is 1600klbs so almost twice thrust. Using same Castor US should be >10mt but not 16mt.

Using Castor on first version shortens development time allowing NG to use it for Cygnus sooner.

Edited. Getting GEM and Castor mixed up.
I think when using the Castor upper stage, it's designated the Antares 330; when that's replaced with a vacuum Miranda upper stage, it becomes MLV. As for development time, I think they claimed that Antares 330 would launch in 2024, so MLV is supposed to be a year after that.

Offline the_big_boot

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https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1667292366095413249

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Firefly with a new page and renders showing their MLV (medium launch vehicle).

"MLV will utilize the Firefly-manufactured Antares 330 first stage that’s powered by seven Firefly Miranda engines and a new liquid upper stage incorporating one Miranda derived vacuum engine. The vehicle will utilize technologies from Firefly’s flight-proven Alpha vehicle, such as all carbon composite structures and tap-off cycle engines, and will evolve into a reusable vehicle."

The render makes it look like it's launching from 39B, like what was planned with OmegA.

"Launching from Virginia’s Mid-Atlantic Regional Spaceport (MARS) on Wallops Island, MLV is also designed to be compatible with other launch ranges, including Cape Canaveral Space Force Station (CCSFS), Florida, and Vandenberg Space Force Base (VSFB), California."

https://fireflyspace.com/mlv/
i wouldn't call this "new", considering the page has been like that for months now if I'm not mistaken
« Last Edit: 06/10/2023 03:34 am by the_big_boot »

Offline spacepiratecaptaingrayloc

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I think when using the Castor upper stage, it's designated the Antares 330; when that's replaced with a vacuum Miranda upper stage, it becomes MLV. As for development time, I think they claimed that Antares 330 would launch in 2024, so MLV is supposed to be a year after that.

This is my understanding of their vehicle nomenclature as well.

Offline M.E.T.

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“Comparable cost per kg to existing reusable rockets”

So that’s another competitor aiming to match F9’s current list price per kg - which is supposedly ~$65M for ~17t to LEO. Meaning if they hit $4000/kg with the new rocket they will meet this stated goal and call it a win.

Which won’t actually be a win, but it keeps some employees busy for a few years developing this thing anyway.

We will now have Firefly, Neutron and Terran R fighting over this patch of territory. Will be entertaining at least.
« Last Edit: 06/10/2023 05:04 pm by M.E.T. »

Offline TrevorMonty



“Comparable cost per kg to existing reusable rockets”

So that’s another competitor aiming to match F9’s current list price per kg - which is supposedly ~$65M for ~17t to LEO. Meaning if they hit $4000/kg with the new rocket they will meet this stated goal and call it a win.

Which won’t actually be a win, but it keeps some employees busy for a few years developing this thing anyway.

We will now have Firefly, Neutron and Terran R fighting over this patch of territory. Will be entertaining at least.

$60m was F9 expendable price so quite achieveable for Firefly. Should actually be cheaper to build as manufacturing technology has moved on a lot since F9 was designed.

With NG as partners adding GEM63 SRBs shouldn't be issue if they want to go after higher performance missions. Wallops pad maybe limiting factor here.

Long term goal is to make it RLV.


Online Robotbeat

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“Comparable cost per kg to existing reusable rockets”

So that’s another competitor aiming to match F9’s current list price per kg - which is supposedly ~$65M for ~17t to LEO. Meaning if they hit $4000/kg with the new rocket they will meet this stated goal and call it a win.

Which won’t actually be a win, but it keeps some employees busy for a few years developing this thing anyway.

We will now have Firefly, Neutron and Terran R fighting over this patch of territory. Will be entertaining at least.
Since the actual prize is constellation cluster launch, you need to include Blue Origin’s New Glenn, Stoke, and arguably Vulcan as well.


(And possibly ABL as well… there were also planning a larger vehicle.)

What a time to be in this industry…
« Last Edit: 06/11/2023 10:50 am by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0


https://spacenews.com/firefly-to-buy-remaining-virgin-orbit-assets/
TL;DR is that Firefly is getting all of Virgin Orbit's leftover flight hardware. To quote the article:
Quote
That includes engines and other components built or in production for the LauncherOne vehicles that Virgin Orbit manufactured there. It also includes two engines in storage at a Virgin Orbit test site in Mojave, California.

No earthly idea what Firefly could want with that. Sure, NewtonThree was a good little engine that really deserves another chance, but  they've only bought the built engines, not the equipment needed to build more. And Firefly seems to have the engine situation well in hand anyway.

But hey, maybe we'll get something weird and/or cool out of this.
« Last Edit: 06/16/2023 06:26 pm by JEF_300 »
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?


Offline bstrong

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It's unclear to me who owns the IP for the engines now.

Online catdlr

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It's Tony De La Rosa, ...I don't create this stuff, I just report it.

Offline trimeta

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No earthly idea what Firefly could want with that. Sure, NewtonThree was a good little engine that really deserves another chance, but  they've only bought the built engines, not the equipment needed to build more. And Firefly seems to have the engine situation well in hand anyway.
According to the article (which may have been updated since you read it), Firefly gave the following explanation:

Quote from: Firefly Aerospace
Firefly strategically bid and purchased the Virgin Orbit inventory for the significant cost savings on common off-the-shelf components that we use in our product lines, and the benefit of eliminated supply chain lead-times associated with critical flight components. Firefly will not be utilizing all of the inventory and plans to provide additional information to parties who may be interested in purchasing.

Which sounds to me like they'll be disassembling the engines and rockets and harvesting any parts they can from them.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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https://fireflyspace.com/news/firefly-aerospace-signs-agreement-with-lockheed-martin-for-alpha-launch-services/

Quote
June 29, 2023
Firefly Aerospace Signs Agreement with Lockheed Martin for Alpha Launch Services

Cedar Park, Texas, June 29, 2023 – Firefly Aerospace, Inc., an end-to-end space transportation company, today announced it signed a launch agreement with Lockheed Martin to support a technology demonstration mission that will launch aboard Firefly’s Alpha vehicle.

“Firefly’s flight-proven hardware and rapid launch capabilities are well-aligned with Lockheed Martin’s mission needs, and we’re proud to serve as one of their launch providers,” said Bill Weber, CEO of Firefly Aerospace. “We have the infrastructure, technologies, systems, and a dedicated team in place to provide on-demand launch services for both government and commercial customers.”

Firefly’s Alpha rocket provides affordable and responsive launch services with the capability to lift more than 1,000 kg to low Earth orbit. The vehicle utilizes Firefly’s patented tap-off cycle propulsion technology and carbon composite sandwich structures to reduce mass and costs and improve strength and reliability. As a launch provider, Firefly provides an important capability to Lockheed Martin in supporting access to space for its key spacecraft technologies.

“We are working with Firefly because of their innovative performance in offering access to space for small payloads on Firefly Alpha,” said Dan Tenney, vice president, strategy and business development, Lockheed Martin Space. “We look forward to collaborating with them, as we focus on creating a resilient launch environment for our upcoming technology demonstration.”

Online Robotbeat

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I am reading that new book by Ashlee Vance, and man did the US government do Polyakov a dirty. Pretty messed up what happened to Polyakov.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Asteroza

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I am reading that new book by Ashlee Vance, and man did the US government do Polyakov a dirty. Pretty messed up what happened to Polyakov.

If they want to do him right, getting him involved in ukrainian aerospace industry rebuilding would be the least they could do.

Online harrystranger

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Satellite imagery from 2023-07-10 17:28:51 UTC showing new construction changes at Firefly's site in Briggs, Texas.

An interactive version here where you can use a transparency slider to view changes :) https://soar.earth/maps/15357

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/cnbc/status/1679577303313948673

Quote
LISTEN NOW: After recent acquisitions and partnerships with key industry players, @Firefly_Space CEO Bill Weber says the company is on the cusp of raising more cash. Listen and follow #ManifestSpace with @MorganLBrennan here:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/manifest-space-with-morgan-brennan/id1680523433?i=1000621060253
« Last Edit: 07/13/2023 07:50 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

 

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