The SpaceX Helium Supply Discussion Thread

[watermod]

I was talking to a scientist in eastern PA who said it was getting harder to find helium these days for his labs and wondered at the reason for what seems like a shortage to him.

Regardless if there is or isn't a shortage how much helium is expended with a SpaceX launch?
If it's large enough compared to supplies will the small Raptor start looking like a good engine for the Falcon just on the basis of not using helium?

[Negan]

I was talking to a scientist in eastern PA who said it was getting harder to find helium these days for his labs and wondered at the reason for what seems like a shortage to him.

I heard that from my uncle a couple of years ago. He works for a company in the San Diego area that has, as I recall, made billions off inventing some sort of recapture/recycling system for helium. I have no idea if it's a factor for SpaceX.

[docmordrid]

The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article

[Coastal Ron]

The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article

We've had helium shortages before, but one thing is for sure - prices are going to go up. Maybe significantly. Not a good time to be depending on helium for your party balloons... 

[rakaydos]

The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article

We've had helium shortages before, but one thing is for sure - prices are going to go up. Maybe significantly. Not a good time to be depending on helium for your party balloons... 

The various fusion testbeds should sell their spent helium on the open market.

[rsdavis9]

The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article

We've had helium shortages before, but one thing is for sure - prices are going to go up. Maybe significantly. Not a good time to be depending on helium for your party balloons... 

The various fusion testbeds should sell their spent helium on the open market.

What micrograms of the stuff!

[sghill]

The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article

We've had helium shortages before, but one thing is for sure - prices are going to go up. Maybe significantly. Not a good time to be depending on helium for your party balloons... 

I use hydrogen in mine.  Makes birthday cake candles all the more exciting!

[DJPledger]

The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article

Should give SpaceX the nudge in the back to cancel FH and retire F9 and replace them with a Raptor based LV which does away with the helium system.

[woods170]

The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article

Should give SpaceX the nudge in the back to cancel FH and retire F9 and replace them with a Raptor based LV which does away with the helium system.

In case you had not noticed: this is NOT the party thread.
Carry on.

[gospacex]

The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article

Should give SpaceX the nudge in the back to cancel FH and retire F9 and replace them with a Raptor based LV which does away with the helium system.

I wonder, do fuel (not LOX) tanks need specifically He press? Hydrogen should work too...

[spacenut]

Most helium is found in natural gas wells, but we get most of our natural gas today from fracking.  Don't know how much if any helium is in that gas.  It is better to go metholox in the long run to avoid helium.  We in the US have about a 200 year supply on hand now.  30,000 year supply in hydrates in the Bermuda Triangle whenever we need it. 

[docmordrid]

Apparently the Holbrook Basin in AZ has enormous He reserves

http://arizonageology.blogspot.com/2016/04/hunt-for-helium-ramps-up-in-arizona.html

They described the two fields as some of the richest in the world in terms of percentages of helium in the reservoir.   In most situations, 1% helium is considered economic.  In the Arizona fields, helium accounts for ~8% with the remainder almost entirely nitrogen, according to the Ranger presentation. They said Arizona is the "Saudi Arabia of helium."

[john smith 19]

Apparently the Holbrook Basin in AZ has enormous He reserves

http://arizonageology.blogspot.com/2016/04/hunt-for-helium-ramps-up-in-arizona.html

They described the two fields as some of the richest in the world in terms of percentages of helium in the reservoir.   In most situations, 1% helium is considered economic.  In the Arizona fields, helium accounts for ~8% with the remainder almost entirely nitrogen, according to the Ranger presentation. They said Arizona is the "Saudi Arabia of helium."

Sounds like the Helium shortage problem is solved.

[Robotbeat]

For now. Unlike fossil fuels, helium can't just be easily synthesized chemically. It's probably dumb to use it for party balloons, unless you charge a pretty penny for it. You get one balloon, not 10.

[spacenut]

You are right about helium, it is limited.  Fossil fuels can be made by using algae oils.  To grow and produce algae oil is about twice the cost of fracking so going nowhere for now.  However, greenhouses covering an area the size of Rhode Island can produce all the oil the US consumes with algae production, and it is carbon neutral.  Helium can be produced by fusion, but we haven't mastered fusion yet.   

[meekGee]

The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article

Should give SpaceX the nudge in the back to cancel FH and retire F9 and replace them with a Raptor based LV which does away with the helium system.

I wonder, do fuel (not LOX) tanks need specifically He press? Hydrogen should work too...

Oh the humanity!!!!!

[meekGee]

Apparently the Holbrook Basin in AZ has enormous He reserves

http://arizonageology.blogspot.com/2016/04/hunt-for-helium-ramps-up-in-arizona.html

They described the two fields as some of the richest in the world in terms of percentages of helium in the reservoir.   In most situations, 1% helium is considered economic.  In the Arizona fields, helium accounts for ~8% with the remainder almost entirely nitrogen, according to the Ranger presentation. They said Arizona is the "Saudi Arabia of helium."

Sounds like the Helium shortage problem is solved.

I wonder if there's active production that is making its way into the reservoirs, or are depleting a limited resource.

[docmordrid]

Apparently the Holbrook Basin in AZ has enormous He reserves

http://arizonageology.blogspot.com/2016/04/hunt-for-helium-ramps-up-in-arizona.html

They described the two fields as some of the richest in the world in terms of percentages of helium in the reservoir.   In most situations, 1% helium is considered economic.  In the Arizona fields, helium accounts for ~8% with the remainder almost entirely nitrogen, according to the Ranger presentation. They said Arizona is the "Saudi Arabia of helium."

Sounds like the Helium shortage problem is solved.

I wonder if there's active production that is making its way into the reservoirs, or are depleting a limited resource.

Some geologists think geologic helium is primordial, but many others believe much results from alpha decay (uranium and thorium) in radioactive black shales or granite-like basement rock.

[rsdavis9]

You are right about helium, it is limited.  Fossil fuels can be made by using algae oils.  To grow and produce algae oil is about twice the cost of fracking so going nowhere for now.  However, greenhouses covering an area the size of Rhode Island can produce all the oil the US consumes with algae production, and it is carbon neutral.  Helium can be produced by fusion, but we haven't mastered fusion yet.

I use wood and it already covers all the area needed. It should be carbon neutral depending on who you talk to.

[rsdavis9]

Apparently the Holbrook Basin in AZ has enormous He reserves

http://arizonageology.blogspot.com/2016/04/hunt-for-helium-ramps-up-in-arizona.html

They described the two fields as some of the richest in the world in terms of percentages of helium in the reservoir.   In most situations, 1% helium is considered economic.  In the Arizona fields, helium accounts for ~8% with the remainder almost entirely nitrogen, according to the Ranger presentation. They said Arizona is the "Saudi Arabia of helium."

Sounds like the Helium shortage problem is solved.

I wonder if there's active production that is making its way into the reservoirs, or are depleting a limited resource.

Some geologists think geologic helium is primordial, but many others believe much results from alpha decay (uranium and thorium) in radioactive black shales or granite-like basement rock.

and if you believe Pons and Fleishman(sp) some kind of cold fusion process down there somewhere.

[meekGee]

Apparently the Holbrook Basin in AZ has enormous He reserves

http://arizonageology.blogspot.com/2016/04/hunt-for-helium-ramps-up-in-arizona.html

They described the two fields as some of the richest in the world in terms of percentages of helium in the reservoir.   In most situations, 1% helium is considered economic.  In the Arizona fields, helium accounts for ~8% with the remainder almost entirely nitrogen, according to the Ranger presentation. They said Arizona is the "Saudi Arabia of helium."

Sounds like the Helium shortage problem is solved.

I wonder if there's active production that is making its way into the reservoirs, or are depleting a limited resource.

Some geologists think geologic helium is primordial, but many others believe much results from alpha decay (uranium and thorium) in radioactive black shales or granite-like basement rock.

Yes, that stands to reason, I've heard of it before.  I was curious about production rates though - are they comparable to our usage rates, or are they geological?

The reason is that I can't see how He would remain in the rock formations for very long (e.g. geological time frames).  The concentration we're seeing could be a steady state of production and leakage, and then production would be quite intense.

Probably best we get back OT though...

[john smith 19]

Some geologists think geologic helium is primordial, but many others believe much results from alpha decay (uranium and thorium) in radioactive black shales or granite-like basement rock.

That sounds like there should be a PhD to be had in settling the question definitively. One implies a strictly finite supply, the other gradual (how gradual) renewal.

I would encourage any Professors of Geology or Geophysics to consider this as a topic for one of their students, but beyond that I guess this is pretty much OT for the thread title.

[gospacex]

Well, alphas from all the Uranium and Thorium (and daughters - all in all, every decayed U atom gives ~8 alpha particles) must go somewhere... so at least some fraction of He is from that.

[Bynaus]

Apparently the Holbrook Basin in AZ has enormous He reserves

http://arizonageology.blogspot.com/2016/04/hunt-for-helium-ramps-up-in-arizona.html

They described the two fields as some of the richest in the world in terms of percentages of helium in the reservoir.   In most situations, 1% helium is considered economic.  In the Arizona fields, helium accounts for ~8% with the remainder almost entirely nitrogen, according to the Ranger presentation. They said Arizona is the "Saudi Arabia of helium."

Sounds like the Helium shortage problem is solved.

I wonder if there's active production that is making its way into the reservoirs, or are depleting a limited resource.

Some geologists think geologic helium is primordial, but many others believe much results from alpha decay (uranium and thorium) in radioactive black shales or granite-like basement rock.

Its almost certainly both. We know the Earth has a certain abundance of U and Th, and the decay chains produce plenty of He atoms. But then, the Earth's He is not purely 4He (a bit over one in a million He atoms is a 3He), so there must be a non-radiogenic, "primordial" source too (in the solar wind, one in 10'000 He atoms is a 3He, so there is roughly about 100x more radiogenic than primordial He - which would likely have the solar 3/4 ratio - on Earth). The source of the primordial (solar wind) He might be microscopic, solar-wind soaked dust settling on the ocean floor and being reprocessed into the mantle, or some gas that was accreted during the nebular phase.

There is plenty of research being done on these types of questions (my background is noble gas cosmochemistry), it just not a straightforward question to answer.