Author Topic: The SpaceX Helium Supply Discussion Thread  (Read 4933 times)

Offline watermod

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The SpaceX Helium Supply Discussion Thread
« on: 06/29/2017 02:57 am »
I was talking to a scientist in eastern PA who said it was getting harder to find helium these days for his labs and wondered at the reason for what seems like a shortage to him.

Regardless if there is or isn't a shortage how much helium is expended with a SpaceX launch?
If it's large enough compared to supplies will the small Raptor start looking like a good engine for the Falcon just on the basis of not using helium?

« Last Edit: 07/08/2017 07:58 pm by gongora »

Offline Negan

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I was talking to a scientist in eastern PA who said it was getting harder to find helium these days for his labs and wondered at the reason for what seems like a shortage to him.

I heard that from my uncle a couple of years ago. He works for a company in the San Diego area that has, as I recall, made billions off inventing some sort of recapture/recycling system for helium. I have no idea if it's a factor for SpaceX.
« Last Edit: 06/29/2017 05:14 am by Negan »

Offline docmordrid

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The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article
DM

Online Coastal Ron

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The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article

We've had helium shortages before, but one thing is for sure - prices are going to go up. Maybe significantly. Not a good time to be depending on helium for your party balloons...  ;)
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline rakaydos

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The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article

We've had helium shortages before, but one thing is for sure - prices are going to go up. Maybe significantly. Not a good time to be depending on helium for your party balloons...  ;)
The various fusion testbeds should sell their spent helium on the open market.

Online rsdavis9

The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article

We've had helium shortages before, but one thing is for sure - prices are going to go up. Maybe significantly. Not a good time to be depending on helium for your party balloons...  ;)
The various fusion testbeds should sell their spent helium on the open market.

What micrograms of the stuff!
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
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Offline sghill

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The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article

We've had helium shortages before, but one thing is for sure - prices are going to go up. Maybe significantly. Not a good time to be depending on helium for your party balloons...  ;)

I use hydrogen in mine.  Makes birthday cake candles all the more exciting!
Bring the thunder!

Offline DJPledger

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The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article
Should give SpaceX the nudge in the back to cancel FH and retire F9 and replace them with a Raptor based LV which does away with the helium system.

Offline woods170

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The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article
Should give SpaceX the nudge in the back to cancel FH and retire F9 and replace them with a Raptor based LV which does away with the helium system.

In case you had not noticed: this is NOT the party thread. :)
Carry on.

Offline gospacex

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The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article
Should give SpaceX the nudge in the back to cancel FH and retire F9 and replace them with a Raptor based LV which does away with the helium system.

I wonder, do fuel (not LOX) tanks need specifically He press? Hydrogen should work too...

Offline spacenut

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Most helium is found in natural gas wells, but we get most of our natural gas today from fracking.  Don't know how much if any helium is in that gas.  It is better to go metholox in the long run to avoid helium.  We in the US have about a 200 year supply on hand now.  30,000 year supply in hydrates in the Bermuda Triangle whenever we need it. 

Offline docmordrid

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Apparently the Holbrook Basin in AZ has enormous He reserves

http://arizonageology.blogspot.com/2016/04/hunt-for-helium-ramps-up-in-arizona.html

Quote
They described the two fields as some of the richest in the world in terms of percentages of helium in the reservoir.   In most situations, 1% helium is considered economic.  In the Arizona fields, helium accounts for ~8% with the remainder almost entirely nitrogen, according to the Ranger presentation. They said Arizona is the "Saudi Arabia of helium."
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Offline john smith 19

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Apparently the Holbrook Basin in AZ has enormous He reserves

http://arizonageology.blogspot.com/2016/04/hunt-for-helium-ramps-up-in-arizona.html

Quote
They described the two fields as some of the richest in the world in terms of percentages of helium in the reservoir.   In most situations, 1% helium is considered economic.  In the Arizona fields, helium accounts for ~8% with the remainder almost entirely nitrogen, according to the Ranger presentation. They said Arizona is the "Saudi Arabia of helium."
Sounds like the Helium shortage problem is solved.
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 2027?. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Online Robotbeat

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For now. Unlike fossil fuels, helium can't just be easily synthesized chemically. It's probably dumb to use it for party balloons, unless you charge a pretty penny for it. You get one balloon, not 10.
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Offline spacenut

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You are right about helium, it is limited.  Fossil fuels can be made by using algae oils.  To grow and produce algae oil is about twice the cost of fracking so going nowhere for now.  However, greenhouses covering an area the size of Rhode Island can produce all the oil the US consumes with algae production, and it is carbon neutral.  Helium can be produced by fusion, but we haven't mastered fusion yet.   

Offline meekGee

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The troubles in Qatar hit almost 1/3 of the world's supply. Article,

https://www.gasworld.com/qatar-blockade-impacting-global-helium-supply/2012946.article
Should give SpaceX the nudge in the back to cancel FH and retire F9 and replace them with a Raptor based LV which does away with the helium system.

I wonder, do fuel (not LOX) tanks need specifically He press? Hydrogen should work too...
Oh the humanity!!!!!
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Offline meekGee

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Apparently the Holbrook Basin in AZ has enormous He reserves

http://arizonageology.blogspot.com/2016/04/hunt-for-helium-ramps-up-in-arizona.html

Quote
They described the two fields as some of the richest in the world in terms of percentages of helium in the reservoir.   In most situations, 1% helium is considered economic.  In the Arizona fields, helium accounts for ~8% with the remainder almost entirely nitrogen, according to the Ranger presentation. They said Arizona is the "Saudi Arabia of helium."
Sounds like the Helium shortage problem is solved.
I wonder if there's active production that is making its way into the reservoirs, or are depleting a limited resource.
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline docmordrid

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Apparently the Holbrook Basin in AZ has enormous He reserves

http://arizonageology.blogspot.com/2016/04/hunt-for-helium-ramps-up-in-arizona.html

Quote
They described the two fields as some of the richest in the world in terms of percentages of helium in the reservoir.   In most situations, 1% helium is considered economic.  In the Arizona fields, helium accounts for ~8% with the remainder almost entirely nitrogen, according to the Ranger presentation. They said Arizona is the "Saudi Arabia of helium."
Sounds like the Helium shortage problem is solved.
I wonder if there's active production that is making its way into the reservoirs, or are depleting a limited resource.

Some geologists think geologic helium is primordial, but many others believe much results from alpha decay (uranium and thorium) in radioactive black shales or granite-like basement rock.
DM

Online rsdavis9

You are right about helium, it is limited.  Fossil fuels can be made by using algae oils.  To grow and produce algae oil is about twice the cost of fracking so going nowhere for now.  However, greenhouses covering an area the size of Rhode Island can produce all the oil the US consumes with algae production, and it is carbon neutral.  Helium can be produced by fusion, but we haven't mastered fusion yet.

I use wood and it already covers all the area needed. It should be carbon neutral depending on who you talk to.
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

Online rsdavis9

Apparently the Holbrook Basin in AZ has enormous He reserves

http://arizonageology.blogspot.com/2016/04/hunt-for-helium-ramps-up-in-arizona.html

Quote
They described the two fields as some of the richest in the world in terms of percentages of helium in the reservoir.   In most situations, 1% helium is considered economic.  In the Arizona fields, helium accounts for ~8% with the remainder almost entirely nitrogen, according to the Ranger presentation. They said Arizona is the "Saudi Arabia of helium."
Sounds like the Helium shortage problem is solved.
I wonder if there's active production that is making its way into the reservoirs, or are depleting a limited resource.

Some geologists think geologic helium is primordial, but many others believe much results from alpha decay (uranium and thorium) in radioactive black shales or granite-like basement rock.

and if you believe Pons and Fleishman(sp) some kind of cold fusion process down there somewhere. :)
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

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