Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 7, 2017 : DISCUSSION  (Read 251080 times)

Online zubenelgenubi

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #340 on: 09/07/2017 09:57 pm »
One more pair of questions for our assembled experts.

Is there enough pubic information, including the Notice to Mariners re: 2nd stage disposal to:

Estimate how much of an inclination change that the second stage could accomplish AFTER injecting the OTV into an orbital inclination of approximately 43 degrees, on a de-orbit burn?

Or, estimate how much of an inclination change poleward could the second stage yaw steer on ascent from a trajectory that otherwise would proceed to a 43 degree inclined LEO?

Thank you very much in advance for any insight or answers that you can share.
« Last Edit: 09/07/2017 09:59 pm by zubenelgenubi »
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Online gongora

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #341 on: 09/07/2017 10:12 pm »
I enjoyed the nonchalant webcasting with the perfect launch and landing.

It launched at 7am Hawthorne time, he may have needed another cup of coffee.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #342 on: 09/07/2017 11:15 pm »
Thanks for the great article William complete with a trip down Shuttle memory lane! :)
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #343 on: 09/07/2017 11:52 pm »
Does anyone know if the X-37B orbiters have official names or designations? Do they have any distinguishing markings? And do we know for sure which orbiter went up this flight?

I hope Chris G or Ed or JCM or Jim can chime in...but my understanding, as of the OTV-4 landing, is no.  There are no distinguishing markings, labels, nose art  :), etc., to tell the 2 different OTVs apart.

Note the way that Chris G worded his article--the assumption is that OTV-4 was the 2nd flight of the 2nd OTV, and this flight is the 3rd flight of the 1st OTV.
***

There was a different distinguishing characteristic about this launch campaign, noted in Chris G's article--the previous 4 OTV flights were processed at Astrotech Titusville.  This launch campaign used the Boeing facilities in OPF-1.
As these missions have progressed, the U.S. Air Force has provided less and less information.  During the first flights, pre-launch images of X-37B being encapsulated within its fairing were provided, but not during the most recent two flights.  During the first three flights, the specific spacecraft "tail number" being used was specified, but not during the subsequent flights.  And so on. 

 - Ed Kyle
To be expected.

The initial flights were a proof of concept. Subsequent missions explored capabilities/scope.

Perhaps these later missions might require things that would become apparent if too visible?

Why beg inconvenient scrutiny?

Offline yg1968

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #344 on: 09/08/2017 02:15 am »
William's article updated to where we are (good launch and landing), but pending USAF release on good S/C Sep for the X-37B.

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/09/spacex-first-x-37b-launch-falcon-9/

When they arrives, it'll be posted here and then it's mission success and you can all do your one post of congrats, per tradition :)

Can already thanks those who provided coverage, not least Steven (and his technical support, Leo) :)

Great article!

William's article updated to where we are (good launch and landing), but pending USAF release on good S/C Sep for the X-37B.

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/09/spacex-first-x-37b-launch-falcon-9/

When they arrives, it'll be posted here and then it's mission success and you can all do your one post of congrats, per tradition :)

Can already thanks those who provided coverage, not least Steven (and his technical support, Leo) :)

Small correction needed near the end of the article:

Quote
So far in 2017 SpaceX has conducted twelve successful Falcon 9 launches, with the rocket’s next missions slated for early October.

I believe that should be thirteen successful Falcon 9 launches for the year, not twelve.

Offline Hyperion

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #346 on: 09/08/2017 05:28 am »
Quote

I believe that should be thirteen successful Falcon 9 launches for the year, not twelve.

Y, I think so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Falcon_9_and_Falcon_Heavy_launches#2017

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #347 on: 09/08/2017 06:43 am »
Titanium grid fins deployed.
Those are the old Aluminum grid fins.

Thanks for the correction. The commentator was talking about Titanium grid fins which is what got me confused.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Star One

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #348 on: 09/08/2017 08:48 am »
Does anyone know if the X-37B orbiters have official names or designations? Do they have any distinguishing markings? And do we know for sure which orbiter went up this flight?

I hope Chris G or Ed or JCM or Jim can chime in...but my understanding, as of the OTV-4 landing, is no.  There are no distinguishing markings, labels, nose art  :), etc., to tell the 2 different OTVs apart.

Note the way that Chris G worded his article--the assumption is that OTV-4 was the 2nd flight of the 2nd OTV, and this flight is the 3rd flight of the 1st OTV.
***

There was a different distinguishing characteristic about this launch campaign, noted in Chris G's article--the previous 4 OTV flights were processed at Astrotech Titusville.  This launch campaign used the Boeing facilities in OPF-1.
As these missions have progressed, the U.S. Air Force has provided less and less information.  During the first flights, pre-launch images of X-37B being encapsulated within its fairing were provided, but not during the most recent two flights.  During the first three flights, the specific spacecraft "tail number" being used was specified, but not during the subsequent flights.  And so on. 

 - Ed Kyle
To be expected.

The initial flights were a proof of concept. Subsequent missions explored capabilities/scope.

Perhaps these later missions might require things that would become apparent if too visible?

Why beg inconvenient scrutiny?

As for being too visible, well you still see them on landing. They didn't have an issue showing us the Hall thruster in place when OTV-4 landed.

Offline Kaputnik

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #349 on: 09/08/2017 09:00 am »
This was the 40th F9 launch (of all variants)- seven years after the first flight.
Atlas V took eleven years to reach its 40th flight.
It's not as bit a difference as I had thought actually. Somehow the SpaceX steamroller feels faster. I suppose the early days were actually very slow compared to now.
"I don't care what anything was DESIGNED to do, I care about what it CAN do"- Gene Kranz

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #350 on: 09/08/2017 09:10 am »
I suppose the early days were actually very slow compared to now.

Zero launches in 2011. certainly qualifies as slow...

Offline Welsh Dragon

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #351 on: 09/08/2017 09:58 am »
This was the 40th F9 launch (of all variants)- seven years after the first flight.
Atlas V took eleven years to reach its 40th flight.
It's not as bit a difference as I had thought actually. Somehow the SpaceX steamroller feels faster. I suppose the early days were actually very slow compared to now.
41st actually, not counting Amos-6. Graphing the launches of both vehicles is illustrating actually. For the first 8 or so launches, the pace was virtually identical. After that, Falcon 9 picked up the pace, and Atlas V... didn't really. Interesting to see the stand downs after CRS7 and Amos-6, without that, the difference would be even more significant.
« Last Edit: 09/08/2017 09:58 am by Welsh Dragon »

Offline vanoord

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #352 on: 09/08/2017 10:09 am »
This was the 40th F9 launch (of all variants)- seven years after the first flight.
Atlas V took eleven years to reach its 40th flight.
It's not as bit a difference as I had thought actually. Somehow the SpaceX steamroller feels faster. I suppose the early days were actually very slow compared to now.

OTV-5 was F9's 41st launch  ;)


Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #353 on: 09/08/2017 11:40 am »
Here's a different visualisation to remind us just how big a F9 S1 is:

Quote
Fixed the landing photo from today. This ain't no baby rocket. @NASASpaceflight

https://twitter.com/flyin_beaver/status/905965700778385409

I haven't checked the scale myself. Couple of comments on twitter saying this makes Elon 7+ feet tall?!

Offline vanoord

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #354 on: 09/08/2017 11:57 am »
Looks a bit over-scale compared to photos of recovered stages.

A quick Photoshop (why do I do these things?!) with a second Elon added at about the same height as the people on deck.
« Last Edit: 09/08/2017 12:06 pm by vanoord »

Offline woods170

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #355 on: 09/08/2017 11:58 am »
I suppose the early days were actually very slow compared to now.

Zero launches in 2011. certainly qualifies as slow...
The early years were slow for both Falcon 9 and Atlas. Both had just 4 launches in the first 3 years of flying.

However, things change dramatically beyond that. Falcon 9 flew 39 successful missions in it's first 7 years. Atlas 5 flew 19 successful missions in it's first 7 years.

Offline dnavas

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #356 on: 09/08/2017 01:36 pm »
Does this S1 have the new retractable legs. If so, should reduce time needed to go horizontal.

Regardless, stay safe, it's not worth your lives or your family's safety.  If a raging sea is coming to reclaim its loss, let one go....

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #357 on: 09/08/2017 01:55 pm »
Titanium grid fins deployed.
Those are the old Aluminum grid fins.

Thanks for the correction. The commentator was talking about Titanium grid fins which is what got me confused.
They looked liked the old aluminum grid fins to me while watching deployment during the landing sequence and left me raising my brow thus-sly ala Spock ???
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline vanoord

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #358 on: 09/08/2017 03:01 pm »
They looked liked the old aluminum grid fins to me while watching deployment during the landing sequence and left me raising my brow thus-sly ala Spock ???

The new grid fins don't have the two stringers running along them - the ones for OTV-5 did have the stringers.

Unless these are titanium fins cast to the same pattern as the 1st generation fins, they're aluminium.

Offline guckyfan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : X-37B OTV-5 : September 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #359 on: 09/08/2017 03:10 pm »
Unless these are titanium fins cast to the same pattern as the 1st generation fins, they're aluminium.

They were painted white. No reason to paint titanium fins. It was just a small slip by the narrator.

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