Gilmour Space Technologies

[c4fusion]

While I agree it's a tough sell, I don't agree government funding domestically really matters much.

While this can be a true statement, I think that it definitely matters considering who the current investors are.  Additionally, with the current economic climate, new investors would be hesitant to invest in companies with even the slightest of perceived blemishes.  It's far more problematic for a government agency to pull out than to have internal issues since outside investors will question why the government is pulling out, is there something they know that we don't know?  Sure this can be easily cleared out if you are able to talk in front of an investor but that is if you are able to schedule time with them.  From an outsider perspective all that is visible is that the government pulled away from this company, maybe they know something I don't know.  I should just invest in something else.

The point I was trying to make was that Gilmour was able to source VC funds successfully prior to the last government's 'cash splash for space' announcement and to my knowledge that announcement didn't have large sums earmarked for Gilmour use.

From my perspective the tough sell lies in the millions they've burned through with little more than static engine test fires to show for it.

That's actually not as big of an issue since 99.9% of investors have no idea how far away a rocket is from launch until they do seriously deep digging, so this fact maybe easily explained away/obscured by the founders.

IDK, sooner or later the fact that they keep talking about orbit and then shift the goalposts back to the next year is going to get noticed. And while I also don't have much in the way of confidence in the actual skills in VC investors understanding the difficulties to reaching orbit I do believe they're not super keen on a 'new' venture that's been running for years and has yet to leave the pad.

I think we mostly agree then .

The only reason why I say that having the Aussie government support them is really good thing for Gilmour is that it helps build confidence in the company.  Basically they can tout the government support as a "new" thing -  it's a common start up strategy to get testimonials from big players such as the government and other influential entities (and it's just common sense).

[Galactic Penguin SST]

https://twitter.com/gilmourspace/status/1703540053925105823

I’m highly doubtful of their claims, but…

[CameronD]

I’m highly doubtful of their claims, but…

..you're not the only one. {see, I finished it for you! }

Most people start sub-orbital, but they're even less likely to get approvals for that from their Bowen site.  What actually constitutes an "attempt" anyway?  Is testing hardware on a pseudo-launch pad good enough??

[Steven Pietrobon]

Photo from the tweet. The hardware doesn't look anywhere near ready for December!

[CameronD]

Photo from the tweet. The hardware doesn't look anywhere near ready for December!

Launch? ..or revenue raise?? 

[plugger.lockett]

Most space startups are able to both build rockets and apply for approvals at the same time... Also, how far along is 'Bowen Orbital Spaceport" in terms of actual infra? In late April they were still building the pad.

[CameronD]

Also, how far along is 'Bowen Orbital Spaceport" in terms of actual infra? In late April they were still building the pad.

They're still building the pad:

Bowen’s Space Age Daydream Closing In On Launch
Thursday, August 24, 2023 

Whitsunday Regional Councillors joined Acting Mayor John Collins for a tour of progress at the Gilmour Space Technologies Bowen Orbital Spaceport last Wednesday. Gilmour Space Launch Operations Supervisor Adam Williams thanked council for its support and told Councillors all was on track for the first rocket launch later this year.

Construction on the orbital launch facility – one of Australia’s first - at the Abbott Point State Development Area is well underway with contractors working on the construction shed and launch pad. Councillor Mike Brunker said that the site was still working through its approval processes, but was looking extremely exciting.

“What was very interesting were the figures on how it actually propels up into space and how fast it’s going – I’m no space cadet but it had me wrapped,” Councillor Brunker said. “It’s exciting times for our space launch facility, and I can see myself watching from up on Flagstaff Hill with a beer while a rocket launches.”

The rockets will be manufactured at Gilmour's Gold Coast manufacturing hub before being transported to the Bowen launch site. Gilmour Space predicts that up to 92 rocket launches annually could be conducted from the Spaceport by 2032.

When the facility becomes operational, rockets carrying small satellites will be the most common item launched into low-Earth orbit. Satellites forming part of broadband internet constellations are expected to make up a sizeable part of those launches.

https://www.mackayandwhitsundaylife.com/article/bowens-space-age-daydream-closing-in-on-launch

I've no idea what the funding split is, but it does appear that, because they have the full backing of the Queensland Government on this they've decided to follow the typical government project route of build first and get approvals forced through later.  Time will tell if that'll work or not.

[plugger.lockett]

They're still building the pad

Thanks for sharing that! And while I accept that the BOS is controlled by the Queensland state gov I also expect orbital launch approvals are the responsibility of the Federal government and not any one state. And them getting Federal approval to attempt an orbital launch is what I struggle wrapping my head around, especially when one considers their complete lack of launch experience full stop.

[Steven Pietrobon]

Still planning on launching in December.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-21/gold-coast-space-company-prepares-for-first-rocket-launch/103006154

[PM3]

Still planning on launching in December.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-21/gold-coast-space-company-prepares-for-first-rocket-launch/103006154

Oh my gosh. They are sitting on a pile of incomplete rocket parts and worrying about road bumps on the way to the pad. This looks like an amateur rocket company that tried building something too big and does not know how to handle it. Or to cite NASA: "... demonstrating a lack of understanding of the complexity of a space launch service".

How will this end? A trailer with a Gilmourian rocket mock-up that has slid down some Australian country road bank on the way to the pad? Being towed out from there directly to the scrubscrapyard?

All their launch schedule so far has been nonsense, all made up. Probably there is more made up than just the schedule.

[TrevorMonty]

Still planning on launching in December.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-21/gold-coast-space-company-prepares-for-first-rocket-launch/103006154

Oh my gosh. They are sitting on a pile of incomplete rocket parts and worrying about road bumps on the way to the pad. This looks like an amateur rocket company that tried building something too big and does not know how to handle it. Or to cite NASA: "... demonstrating a lack of understanding of the complexity of a space launch service".

How will this end? A trailer with a Gilmourian rocket mock-up that has slid down some Australian country road bank on the way to the pad? Being towed out from there directly to the scrubscrapyard?

All their launch schedule so far has been nonsense, all made up. Probably there is more made up than just the schedule.

How is your LV development program going?

[c4fusion]

Still planning on launching in December.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-21/gold-coast-space-company-prepares-for-first-rocket-launch/103006154

Oh my gosh. They are sitting on a pile of incomplete rocket parts and worrying about road bumps on the way to the pad. This looks like an amateur rocket company that tried building something too big and does not know how to handle it. Or to cite NASA: "... demonstrating a lack of understanding of the complexity of a space launch service".

How will this end? A trailer with a Gilmourian rocket mock-up that has slid down some Australian country road bank on the way to the pad? Being towed out from there directly to the scrubscrapyard?

All their launch schedule so far has been nonsense, all made up. Probably there is more made up than just the schedule.

How is your LV development program going?

I am sure PM3 doesn't have 100 million to develop an LV though. 

Personally I am a bit frustrated that Gilmour smells worse and worse to me and is starting to feel more like Vector Space - maybe not that bad, but definitely worse than Astra (at least they tried orbital 8 times and succeeding twice before basically running out of steam).

[CameronD]

Personally I am a bit frustrated that Gilmour smells worse and worse to me and is starting to feel more like Vector Space - maybe not that bad, but definitely worse than Astra (at least they tried orbital 8 times and succeeding twice before basically running out of steam).

As long as they're able to pay people's wages and contribute the $millions they've been granted to the local economy, does it really matter??

They're inspiring young people to dream big.. I just hope they recover ok from the inevitable let-downs and move on to something, somewhere with a more reasonable chance of success.

[c4fusion]

Personally I am a bit frustrated that Gilmour smells worse and worse to me and is starting to feel more like Vector Space - maybe not that bad, but definitely worse than Astra (at least they tried orbital 8 times and succeeding twice before basically running out of steam).

As long as they're able to pay people's wages and contribute the $millions they've been granted to the local economy, does it really matter??

They're inspiring young people to dream big.. I just hope they recover ok from the inevitable let-downs and move on to something, somewhere with a more reasonable chance of success.

I would be much more happy if Australia had a more robust Space industry and it would be lovely if it could be grown out.
Currently Glimour is by far the biggest space company that I am aware of that is based in Australia - Fleet is at least approaching the size of Glimour.  However, if Glimour falls, then investors are much less likely wanting to invest in Space Industry for Australia.  A lot of investors don't really care about what a company does and just only care what vertical it is, thus, they will just look up space companies in Australia in Pitchbook or other sites and site that the biggest one failed.

Thus, funding for new and actually cool space companies will remain low and interest in Space will remain tiny.  At this rate, Australia will never reach even 1/4 of the economic activity related to space compared to Canada.

[plugger.lockett]

This is where I land as well. In the short term it's not a huge issue, but longer term the lack of success Gilmour produces before (most likely) folding and leaving all those VC investors out of pocket will hurt New Space ventures domestically for years or more to come. They've sponged up heaps of money and pr and haven't produced anything tangible from a launch vehicle actually flying perspective. To my knowledge they've only ever launched one rocket successfully. That was years ago, was a hobby class commercially available hybrid with hobby electronics for deployment and they still didn't recover successfully.
I find it incredibly hard to believe that they'll be successful in making orbit. And I still maintain that their choice of a hybrid for propulsion is quite unsuited for an orbital launch vehicle. An being blunt, if hybrids were an industry accepted viable path forward I would expect other companies/projects would be leveraging them in their launch vehicles. Instead you've got Gilmour as the one outlier.
I'd love to be wrong on all of this as it would be better for the domestic space launch industry, but I'm kinda expecting that the first orbital commercial launch in the 21st century from this continent with be a SpaceX Falcon 9 given the recently penned Technology Safeguards Agreement that the US and Australia jointly signed less than 2 weeks ago.

[trimeta]

And I still maintain that their choice of a hybrid for propulsion is quite unsuited for an orbital launch vehicle. An being blunt, if hybrids were an industry accepted viable path forward I would expect other companies/projects would be leveraging them in their launch vehicles. Instead you've got Gilmour as the one outlier.

For what it's worth, there are actually a number of companies around the world proposing the use of hybrid motors for orbital-class launch vehicles: Innospace, Vaya Space, TiSpace/ATSpace, HyImpulse, bluShift Aerospace, Reaction Dynamics, and Equatorial Space Systems, just to name a few. Of course, of those I'd say Gilmour is probably the most serious and most likely to actually launch a vehicle to orbit...so this isn't exactly esteemed company.

[CameronD]

And I still maintain that their choice of a hybrid for propulsion is quite unsuited for an orbital launch vehicle. An being blunt, if hybrids were an industry accepted viable path forward I would expect other companies/projects would be leveraging them in their launch vehicles. Instead you've got Gilmour as the one outlier.

For what it's worth, there are actually a number of companies around the world proposing the use of hybrid motors for orbital-class launch vehicles: Innospace, Vaya Space, TiSpace/ATSpace, HyImpulse, bluShift Aerospace, Reaction Dynamics, and Equatorial Space Systems, just to name a few. Of course, of those I'd say Gilmour is probably the most serious and most likely to actually launch a vehicle to orbit...so this isn't exactly esteemed company.

Plus, for what it's worth, there has been a good deal of hybrid motor testing going on behind the scenes by these companies for many years now.

One of the biggest drivers pushing hybrid motors in this country is, quite simply, reasonable availability of the propellants.  It is actually possible to source Liquid Nitrous Oxide in sufficient quantities for test and launch purposes whereas some other fuel/oxidiser combinations are not so easy given Australia's rather strict transport and storage regulations.
 

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/gilmourspace/status/1731860020663316897

Thought we'd share this #behindthescenes pic of our 110kN Eris Stage 2 before we integrated it into the rest of the rocket...

** LAUNCH UPDATE: With end of year fast-approaching and launch approvals still pending, Test Flight 1 will now attempt first orbital launch in 2024. **

[plugger.lockett]

It is actually possible to source Liquid Nitrous Oxide in sufficient quantities for test and launch purposes whereas some other fuel/oxidiser combinations are not so easy given Australia's rather strict transport and storage regulations.

Didn't they switch to LOX some years ago?

[plugger.lockett]

https://twitter.com/gilmourspace/status/1731860020663316897

Thought we'd share this #behindthescenes pic of our 110kN Eris Stage 2 before we integrated it into the rest of the rocket...

** LAUNCH UPDATE: With end of year fast-approaching and launch approvals still pending, Test Flight 1 will now attempt first orbital launch in 2024. **

Wow. They're not even saying when in 2024, just 2024.